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...and the cupboard is empty!

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Old
02-24-2012, 04:55 AM
  #1
markisonfire
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...and the cupboard is empty!

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/teams/los_angeles_kings

Boy, if you remove Bernier, Loktionov, and Voynov... our prospect pool blows. We were number one just a year ago and now we're looking at a few long term projects at best.

Toffoli needs time to develop. He is really going to be a hit or miss project. He has decent size, certainly enough to make it in the NHL. What are the biggest knocks on him? His skating? I've heard that he's been playing more and more like Danny Heatley... simply finding open spaces. Not sure how I feel about that.

Deslauriers is going to be a stud, in my opinion. I can see him on the Kings in the next year or two, replacing Martinez. He seems like a poor man's Jack Johnson with better defensive skills. We'll see what the future holds for him, but I loved what I saw in camp.

Forbort hasn't looked great the few times I've seen him play. I hope this pick doesn't turn into a bust, considering we traded up to take him instead of taking guys like Tarasenko, Howden, and Etem. But seriously, for being a stay at home, physical defender, he was less than average (and got walked on at the WJC).

Hickey has been in Manchester for quite a while now but he will never live up to his top five selection. With guys like Deslauriers and Muzzin, I'm not sure if Hickey will ever get his chance to shine here.

...and then what?

Martin Jones seems to have taken a step back this year. Chris Gibson was just what we needed. I can't comment on Muzzin this season.

We seem to have placed all of our bets on small, skilled wingers that won't get the chance to try to translate their game to the NHL: Brandon Kozun, Jordan Weal, even Oscar Moller to a lesser extent. These are guys that might just be too small for the NHL. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there are only so many Theoren Fleurys and Martin St. Louises (so that's a weird name to pluralize).

My point in bringing this all up is to get a sense of just where exactly Dean Lombardi is going now - he started to build from within, had a ton of draft picks, and now we likely will not have a first round pick in two straight seasons. Are we hoping to groom one or two players a year to take the spots that our UFAs will be creating once they leave? What's the plan here? What's the direction? How would you rank our prospect pool in comparison to the rest of the league, and perhaps most importantly, do you think we have the right pieces developing in our system to allow this team to progress and win?

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02-24-2012, 05:27 AM
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BigBrown
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It's a valid concern. I gotta think we're in the bottom half, maybe bottom third, by the time Bernier/Voynov/Lokti are listed as graduates. We went from a (perceivably) stacked prospect pool to mediocre rather fast.

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02-24-2012, 05:35 AM
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This was the primary point that I was trying to make in the JJ / Carter thread. I've seen too many well intended "build from within" programs get dumped before they have a chance to come to fruition. DL has traded away virtually all of the assets that he had (except for Bernier) that were moveable without creating another huge hole. This would be OK if the team was sitting on the doorstep of playoff domination, but this team is struggling just to be mediocre and hoping to slide into one of the final playoff spots.

The new unofficial slogan - The Time Better Be Now!

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02-24-2012, 05:47 AM
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markisonfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
This was the primary point that I was trying to make in the JJ / Carter thread. I've seen too many well intended "build from within" programs get dumped before they have a chance to come to fruition. DL has traded away virtually all of the assets that he had (except for Bernier) that were moveable without creating another huge hole. This would be OK if the team was sitting on the doorstep of playoff domination, but this team is struggling just to be mediocre and hoping to slide into one of the final playoff spots.

The new unofficial slogan - The Time Better Be Now!
Or, perhaps in Deans case, The Time Needs To Be Now - If Not, I Won't Be Here Next Season

It is just unfortunate when looking at an organization like Detroit. Obviously they are a world class organization but they always seem to choose the right prospects at the right times and never have to rush them. They just traded to get one of their prospects back, for goodness sake. What a luxury that would be. It is my hope that we don't have to play Forbort until he is at least 23.

I'm just afraid that we will lose a piece to free agency or injury retirement and all of a sudden, we won't have anyone from within the organization to fill the space. Even with guys like Holloway and Moller headed overseas, our veteran prospect group is disappearing as well.

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02-24-2012, 06:00 AM
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BigBrown
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Well to be fair it's not as if our top prospects are going anywhere else, they're graduating to the big team so technically they're still building from within, they're just adding some pieces. I guess Schenn would be the exception. The moving of first round picks is a bit worrysome though.

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02-24-2012, 06:12 AM
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I actually hated LA taking Forbort over Bjugstad/Howden and still feel it was a bad move. I'm okay with LA moving picks prospects for proven talent because roster spots are getting tough to come by in LA.
Kopitar,Richards,Carter and DD all signed for next 4 yrs. After locking up Quick LA will be set with its core and than with UFA's it really only needs a prospect or two to pan out every couple years. LA is the 2nd youngest team in the NHL and has 80% of its core locked up long term.

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02-24-2012, 07:22 AM
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What cupboard ? The Kings never had one.

Schenn and Simmer(not even sure you count Simmer) were the only Elite guys out of it. They still have Toffoli/Vey/Forbort.


Slava/Bernier/Loki are grads, which is fine. You guys are giving Dean too much credit. Dean's drafting record is the Reason the Kings don't have any prospects of worth. Not because he Dealt Simmer/Schenn, and a couple of guys are Grads.

Really, what good would picks do outside of the Top Ten with Dean picking them ? You guys want him selecting more Trevor lewis/Teubert/Hickey type guys ?

I would rather him gamble on players like Carter.

If the Kings had a GM like Peter Chiarelli(he tends to hit gold in drafts), then I would be concerned about picks. But Lombardi ? Nope not one bit.

Sad he is here to stay for another year probably, but it is what it is.


Last edited by damacles1156: 02-24-2012 at 07:53 AM.
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02-24-2012, 07:44 AM
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For those of us who have been around for awhile this feels like the Gretzky era except that now we are chasing ex-Flyers instead of ex-Oilers.

The bad trend since the Halpern trade has been for Lombardi to give away more assets than he receives. Quality over quantity? Perhaps but very risky. Five years from now could be quite ugly.

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02-24-2012, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
For those of us who have been around for awhile this feels like the Gretzky era except that now we are chasing ex-Flyers instead of ex-Oilers.

The bad trend since the Halpern trade has been for Lombardi to give away more assets than he receives. Quality over quantity? Perhaps but very risky. Five years from now could be quite ugly.
Going out on a Limb there I see. Hell it could be bad like Two weeks from now

It's not bad already ?

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02-24-2012, 10:13 AM
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Whiskeypete
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as of last night. DL and the Kings imo CANNOT trade away any #1-#3 picks for the next 2-3 drafts, even for someone that is considered a 'generational talent'. those top three picks are the future lifeblood of a team and Dean is seriously gambling away the long-term future and hopefully success of this club.

his poor choices in the top three rounds since 2006 have put him and the team in the position they are today. you have to stop the bleeding at some point, in order to save the patient.

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02-24-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post

his poor choices in the top three rounds since 2006 have put him and the team in the position they are today. you have to stop the bleeding at some point, in order to save the patient.
Not to defend DL's draft picks here, because really you can't judge a draft fully for a few years so there's a limited selection of top three picks to evaluate, but I think you're off base a bit.

Yes, DL's had some flops like Hickey, but he's had some hits too like Bernier, Simmonds, Doughty, Voynov, Clifford and Schenn in the first three rounds. Even Lewis, while not a great value pick, isn't a total bust. At 134 games he's still played more games than 12 other first round picks from that draft year.

That's six players in four drafts that look good. And Moller and Hickey haven't been completely written off as NHL players either (though Hickey will not live up to the 4th overall billing I agree).

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02-24-2012, 12:10 PM
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Muzzinga
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isnt the cupboard exactly the same as last year, just no schenn?

You seem to think its a bad thing that Loki and Voynov are now in the NHL, and that other prospects were replaced by full time nhl'ers

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02-24-2012, 12:18 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Time to look to the college ranks for some unsigned free agent prospects to add to the pipeline. That's the route they took to sign talent like Matt Moulson, Teddy Purcell, Davis Drewiske, Peter Harrold, Steven Reinprecht, Jason Blake, Dan Bylsma, and of course we can't forget about Steve McKenna, Joe Piskula and Mike Pudlick.

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02-24-2012, 12:20 PM
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Hatter
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Am I correct that if the kings make the playoffs this year then we don't have any picks this draft in the first second and third rounds?

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02-24-2012, 12:36 PM
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Tadite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
isnt the cupboard exactly the same as last year, just no schenn?

You seem to think its a bad thing that Loki and Voynov are now in the NHL, and that other prospects were replaced by full time nhl'ers

+1

Seems that some people think having young players in the AHL is more important that young players in the NHL! We're the 2nd youngest team in the league for a reason...

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02-24-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatter View Post
Am I correct that if the kings make the playoffs this year then we don't have any picks this draft in the first second and third rounds?
depends on the condition Columbus pulls.
If we are out of playoff the Jacket can decide 12 or 13 first round if i understood it right

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02-24-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
isnt the cupboard exactly the same as last year, just no schenn?

You seem to think its a bad thing that Loki and Voynov are now in the NHL, and that other prospects were replaced by full time nhl'ers
Quoted for truth. Have the Kings been so bad recently that some think having people in the minors/juniors, rather than graduating to the NHL team is better? That's the ultimate goal.

I also agree with the above comment about college guys undrafted. We could find a gem there. Dean always seems to try to sign someone out of college. Maybe we'll get lucky!

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02-24-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw1tch View Post
isnt the cupboard exactly the same as last year, just no schenn?

You seem to think its a bad thing that Loki and Voynov are now in the NHL, and that other prospects were replaced by full time nhl'ers
Boom. Nailed it.

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02-24-2012, 12:49 PM
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No offense but Tonelli's and Futas opinions>yours

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02-24-2012, 01:00 PM
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I think it's a good sign to see the prospects graduate and actually become nhl players. I think where LA can see a drop off is now for 2 straight years(conditionally) they will not have a 1st round selection (or a 2nd or 3rd this season as of today). A lack of draft picks and moving vets for picks and prospects will see a prospect pool dwindle. Most of the players in LA are young and having a deep prospect pool from top to bottom won't really help unless you're dealing them to add pieces to your roster. I'm not concerned at the moment and I see LA adding a couple draft picks in dealing Stoll and Penner at the deadline.

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02-24-2012, 01:02 PM
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If the Kings miss the playoffs this season, the Kings keep this year's #1 pick. If the Kings make the playoffs this season, Columbus has the choice of this year's #1, or next year's #1.

The Kings are protecting themselves if they have a down year this year and miss the playoffs, and happen to fall too far down the standings since everything is so close. Their expectation would be that next year, things won't go as poorly as they have this season on offense, and they won't simply be in the race for 8th.

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02-24-2012, 01:12 PM
  #22
Butch 19
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Quote:
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Not to defend DL's draft picks here, because really you can't judge a draft fully for a few years so there's a limited selection of top three picks to evaluate, but I think you're off base a bit.

Yes, DL's had some flops like Hickey, but he's had some hits too like Bernier, Simmonds, Doughty, Voynov, Clifford and Schenn in the first three rounds. Even Lewis, while not a great value pick, isn't a total bust. At 134 games he's still played more games than 12 other first round picks from that draft year.

That's six players in four drafts that look good. And Moller and Hickey haven't been completely written off as NHL players either (though Hickey will not live up to the 4th overall billing I agree).
The Kool-Aid is strong with this one.

Hickey and Lewis have "had a few years..."

And the count is still at ZERO for scoring forwards drafted by Lombardi. (unless if you want to count players that he's traded away - I don't really count those)

And Lewis isn't a total bust? Really?? If he had been drafted in the 3rd or 4th rounds, I'd agree with you, but not at #17 overall. At 17 you'd "like" to have an impact player (scoring - do I see a trend?).

And while Dean is at it, Bernier should be rolled for another scorer.

And credit for Doughty?? really? at #2, he's a no-brainer. (oops, DL missed a #4, so maybe I should give him credit for getting Dough-boy at 2 )

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02-24-2012, 01:13 PM
  #23
Leo W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
The Kool-Aid is strong with this one.

Hickey and Lewis have "had a few years..."

And the count is still at ZERO for scoring forwards drafted by Lombardi. (unless if you want to count players that he's traded away - I don't really count those)

And Lewis isn't a total bust? Really?? If he had been drafted in the 3rd or 4th rounds, I'd agree with you, but not at #17 overall. At 17 you'd "like" to have an impact player (scoring - do I see a trend?).

And while Dean is at it, Bernier should be rolled for another scorer.

And credit for Doughty?? really? at #2, he's a no-brainer. (oops, DL missed a #4, so maybe I should give him credit for getting Dough-boy at 2 )
Doughty wasn't a no brainer at the time, if I remember correctly Bogosian had the potential to go above him.

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02-24-2012, 01:18 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Doughty wasn't a no brainer at the time, if I remember correctly Bogosian had the potential to go above him.
There were four defensemen who were considered to be contenders to be selected at #2:

Doughty
Bogosian
Pietrangelo
Schenn

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02-24-2012, 01:20 PM
  #25
Tadite
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Doughty wasn't a no brainer at the time, if I remember correctly Bogosian had the potential to go above him.
Yea. But that's not the point. It's all about mentioning all that's gone wrong and nothing that's gone right. Half the defense, both goalies, and yes a few forwards with potential all don't mean anything when compared to the all important mystical "scoring forward."

Creating the only true goalie depth we've ever had as a franchise and more two way d-men then spots on our roster. That's just... luck?

Or of course.... Trading from a position we can replace for something we don't have.... That's of course a terrible idea and isn't it better to have 9+ d-men when only 6 can actually play....

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