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Old
02-24-2012, 12:40 PM
  #51
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Old
02-24-2012, 12:40 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by lamp9post View Post
I guess you didn't get the memo that injuries are part of the game.
I suggest you read my previous posts... memo's there...

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Old
02-24-2012, 12:59 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by nilan30 View Post
Hard work, loyalty, helping youngsters, not complaining.
Those are all part of his job that he actually gets paid for....

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Old
02-24-2012, 01:06 PM
  #54
montreal
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Originally Posted by lamp9post View Post
I think Gauthier has shown an awareness and concern for the state of the Bulldogs, so I do think he will take this into consideration in any trades he might make (especially now, given the Hab's current standing). Ultimately, however, if we get a great offer for a regular that requires us to call up a key piece from Hamilton as a replacement, so be it. Giving NHL minutes to young guys like Palushaj and Leblanc could develop them as much or more than an AHL playoff series could.
Agreed as the trade for MacIntrye and Dawes showed it last year, just worried how things will go this year since it's a much different situation than past years. I also agree on guys like Palushaj/Leblanc getting NHL minutes can be better for them, but I also consider this a catch 22 in that this team is a complete mess and losing is a bad environment, i really hate the fact that Leblanc has played only 25 games in the AHL this year and the fact that in mid April him and some of our other top pro prospects could be sitting at home.

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Originally Posted by nilan30 View Post
I guess I just have a soft spot for an older guy in the AHL who busts his a** and would like to see him get one more chance to show if he can play in the NHL. You never know. Look at Matt Carkner. Toiled in the A for all those years and now is making over a million (I beleive) a year in the NHL after he got a chance to show what he could do. Not saying Henry or, even a Brian Willsie (is he still in Hamilton?) would do the same but you never know until they get that shot. Not saying every old guy in the A deserves it but some do. And there best chance to get it is when the Habs are out of contention
Willsie just returned from injury, he's been a bust of a FA signing but has been better of late. The Dogs could afford to lose him, losing a Henry or St-Denis would cripple them imo.

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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Massive joke? Not really. I am not saying the two are similar in game style, just in talent ceiling.

St-Denis is not any more undersized than others. He is 1 inch shorter than Emelin and a few pounds heavier that Emelin.

Size is not what held St-Denis back.
Yea it kind of is. Cote was never in the same league as St-Denis as far as talent goes. You are comparing an average defensmen to one that is among the top in the AHL. There's no way on earth that Cote is anywhere near St-Denis in terms of talent. I don't know how many Hamilton games you have watched, but I have seen almost every single game year after year and I don't know how anyone could watch the two and think they have the same talent ceiling.

As for him not being undersized and heavier then Emelin, are we talking about the same player? Emelin is way thicker, he's listed over 220. If you took all the players equipment in Hamilton and put it on St-Denis I don't still don't think he would be "a few pounds" heavier then Emelin. St-Denis is skinny and lacks strength, imo that is a big part of what has held him back.

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Old
02-24-2012, 01:24 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
I suggest you read my previous posts... memo's there...
I see your point. However in today's NHL 7th d-men do play enough minutes considering injuries that I think you need to plan on him being able to play in the top 6. Just look at the games played by our defense this year as a perfect example:

Kaberle: 61
Gorges: 61
Subban: 60
Diaz: 56
Gill: 53
Emelin: 49
Weber: 46

Our 7th dman has played 46 out of 61 possible games, roughly 3 out of every 4. That is enough ice-time to warrant getting a guy who can actually play, as opposed to a plug who doesn't mind being sat for 60 games.

I do agree that no teams have spectacular 7th dmen, and if they were they'd be in the top 6. But depth is more important than ever and I think it is important to have a 7th dman that has the potential to play and steal a spot in the top 6.

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Old
02-24-2012, 01:40 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamp9post View Post
I see your point. However in today's NHL 7th d-men do play enough minutes considering injuries that I think you need to plan on him being able to play in the top 6. Just look at the games played by our defense this year as a perfect example:

Kaberle: 61
Gorges: 61
Subban: 60
Diaz: 56
Gill: 53
Emelin: 49
Weber: 46

Our 7th dman has played 46 out of 61 possible games, roughly 3 out of every 4. That is enough ice-time to warrant getting a guy who can actually play, as opposed to a plug who doesn't mind being sat for 60 games.

I do agree that no teams have spectacular 7th dmen, and if they were they'd be in the top 6. But depth is more important than ever and I think it is important to have a 7th dman that has the potential to play and steal a spot in the top 6.
thing is, Connie does dress 7th D men every game, so of course he'll play more than the usual 7th D on other teams...

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Old
02-24-2012, 01:57 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
thing is, Connie does dress 7th D men every game, so of course he'll play more than the usual 7th D on other teams...
Then isn't that a good reason to have a good #7?

Also, if you look around the league I think you'll find that 7th defensemen will typically play around 40-50 games and a #8 that will play 15-20 games. Teams like Boston who have had no injuries on their blue line are an exception.

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Old
02-24-2012, 02:07 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by lamp9post View Post
Then isn't that a good reason to have a good #7?

Also, if you look around the league I think you'll find that 7th defensemen will typically play around 40-50 games and a #8 that will play 15-20 games. Teams like Boston who have had no injuries on their blue line are an exception.
solution : find a coach who "gets it"...


and despite that, our 7th D (in games played this season) will only reach 40 games cause our coach uses 7 every game...

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Old
02-24-2012, 03:04 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Yea it kind of is. Cote was never in the same league as St-Denis as far as talent goes. You are comparing an average defensmen to one that is among the top in the AHL. There's no way on earth that Cote is anywhere near St-Denis in terms of talent. I don't know how many Hamilton games you have watched, but I have seen almost every single game year after year and I don't know how anyone could watch the two and think they have the same talent ceiling.

As for him not being undersized and heavier then Emelin, are we talking about the same player? Emelin is way thicker, he's listed over 220. If you took all the players equipment in Hamilton and put it on St-Denis I don't still don't think he would be "a few pounds" heavier then Emelin. St-Denis is skinny and lacks strength, imo that is a big part of what has held him back.
Talent ceiling, that is what I said. Both will/did not make it past the AHL. End of analysis.

Regarding St-Denis size vs Emelin....
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=70619
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=78669

Even if these stats are a little off, the real difference is in the style of play.

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Old
02-24-2012, 03:09 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
solution : find a coach who "gets it"...


and despite that, our 7th D (in games played this season) will only reach 40 games cause our coach uses 7 every game...
Weber is already at 46 as I have posted above, behind 6 others who have played more games.

Seriously, look around the league. 46 games played is admittedly high for a #7, but I think you'll find plenty of examples of #7 guys who have already played in the neighborhood of 30 games.

My point is that among teams' 5-6-7 players, there is not always a clear distinction in talent. I don't think it is wise to go into a season with the mindset that your top 6 will play most every game and your #7 will play 15-20 games. The difference in games played between #6 and #7's usually isn't that drastic.

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Old
02-24-2012, 03:14 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Talent ceiling, that is what I said. Both will/did not make it past the AHL. End of analysis.

Regarding St-Denis size vs Emelin....
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=70619
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=78669

Even if these stats are a little off, the real difference is in the style of play.
So now you know the future? St-Denis just got his first taste of the NHL, who's to say he won't see more time next year? And there's no way Cote is near St-Denis in terms of talent ceiling. Really it's not even close.

hockeydb doesn't update size, but I don't need links, I have eyes and have been watching both for several years now. Emelin is easily much thicker and heavier.

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Old
02-24-2012, 03:36 PM
  #62
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i like st-denis and would like him to get more time next year. he was surprisingly good during his call up. maybe there's more to be seen

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Old
02-24-2012, 03:42 PM
  #63
Joe Cole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
So now you know the future? St-Denis just got his first taste of the NHL, who's to say he won't see more time next year? And there's no way Cote is near St-Denis in terms of talent ceiling. Really it's not even close.

hockeydb doesn't update size, but I don't need links, I have eyes and have been watching both for several years now. Emelin is easily much thicker and heavier.

Do I know the future? No. But the certain things are constants in this world, if you have followed the traditional steps (CHL, AHL, NHL) and have not cracked the NHL by 25, your chances of doing so at 26 are slim.

HockeyDB does not update either players size. It works both ways. Emelin is not some tree trunk sized monster, he just has good timing and is willing to hit. I do not compare the two besides the fact that they are around the same age and play the same position. What they bring to the table is different.

I do not dislike St-Denis, I think he is an honest player. But he is not going to get better, he has played in the CHL, in the AHL and had a taste of the NHL. He is what he is at this point.

I think St-Denis is better in the defensive end than Weber, but he does not bring the possibility of an offensive game as Weber does (and I am not a Weber fan).

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02-24-2012, 03:57 PM
  #64
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Do I know the future? No. But the certain things are constants in this world, if you have followed the traditional steps (CHL, AHL, NHL) and have not cracked the NHL by 25, your chances of doing so at 26 are slim.

HockeyDB does not update either players size. It works both ways. Emelin is not some tree trunk sized monster, he just has good timing and is willing to hit. I do not compare the two besides the fact that they are around the same age and play the same position. What they bring to the table is different.
Sure but players can still make it later on, just look at Darche, who had a couple games under his belt but it wasn't until the last two that he really secured a spot in the NHL at age 33/34. I wouldn't write St-Denis off just yet.

Emelin is around 220, and St-Denis is no where near that, not sure why you have such a hard time with this. St-Denis looks more like he's around 185-190.

Also why would you quote hockey db if you know they don't update size for either, they often input the profiles after the NHL draft, and it's not uncommon for them to leave them that way. We all know different kids are going to grow at different rates, so if you know you have outdated info, even if it's for both, common sense says that one player could have vastly outgrown another player over the years.

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