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Nash Rumors Part VI: Carter to LA; Nash next to move?

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02-24-2012, 05:01 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
If the leafs or some other teams makes a better offer and columbus accepts it, so be it. You go to plan B. I'm not in favor of getting Nash anyway, but if we are going to do it, we better not overpay.
What is plan B? So simple to say go for plan B but I don't ever remember hearing about one.

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02-24-2012, 05:02 PM
  #902
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I was so confiden the Rangers would get Nash by the deadline that I was waiting for when not if.

There are so many people saying they don't think it will happen that unfortunately I don't feel as confident anymore. It's not that I'm scared another team will come in and still him, I just don't think Howson will move him and I think that will be a mistake if he doesn't deal him now.

Hopefully we can still get him but I'm feeling more like he'll stay where he is for now.
The only people saying it with insistence are posters here.

I'm 50/50. I think it's Rangers or nowhere. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.

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02-24-2012, 05:02 PM
  #903
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Agreed. There is not a shot in hell I'd give them AA, McIlrath, and a 2nd rounder. AA's career numbers arent that far off from Dubinsky's and he's younger.
Now we're analyzing hypothetical trades involving our own players for our own players .

Someone make the madness stop!

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02-24-2012, 05:02 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
What is plan B? So simple to say go for plan B but I don't ever remember hearing about one.
The TSN article somewhat implies it's Dustin Brown. But of course if that were the case Lombardi would ask for the moon when that is not what he's worth.

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02-24-2012, 05:03 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
What is plan B? So simple to say go for plan B but I don't ever remember hearing about one.
If they dont get Nash then they go the rental route......Kostitsyn type.......Gaustad,Pahlsson,etc...........nothing crazy......

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02-24-2012, 05:03 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
The only people saying it with insistence are posters here.

I'm 50/50. I think it's Rangers or nowhere. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.
Watch out if we don't win tonight.

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02-24-2012, 05:04 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=388728

Saying Rangers are interested in Brown...because of his numbers and his cap hit, i like this idea a lot better than Nash, he may not be as productive of Nash, but puts up good numbers consistently each year and his cap hit is way more friendlier than Nash's.
Right after Lombardi heard about or seen that article (around 4:00) he tweeted that Brown was going NO WHERE, didn't know where those rumors came from. Another end of story... Brown is not available...

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02-24-2012, 05:04 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by New York RKY View Post
Lombardi, McKenzie, and I believe Lebrun all said Brown isn't available even though they were asking teams about him.
yeah, i just thought about adding that, I heard that around 1:30ish on NHL home ice sirius xm, but the last article i posted had a time of 345...so I am a bit curious, not sure which to believe

see Jackpot's post above this one...if that was at 4, most likely he is off the market...but I would bet with the right deal lombardi would trade brown.

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02-24-2012, 05:05 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Now we're analyzing hypothetical trades involving our own players for our own players .

Someone make the madness stop!
Sorry I was just adding input to the discussion to in essence agree with you that it's ridiculous that we are talking trades of our own players

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02-24-2012, 05:06 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
The only people saying it with insistence are posters here.

I'm 50/50. I think it's Rangers or nowhere. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.
Peopl like Hradek and Maloney don't sound that confident about it.

I agree that it's Rangers or nowhere but I'm really starting to wonder who has the leverage.

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02-24-2012, 05:06 PM
  #911
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Not saying what Sather is offering isn't enough from the perspective of most here, but I don't see it happening. As stated before, someone will be willing to part with an upgraded version of the Thomas/McIlrath part of the deal, or a better current NHL roster player. Sather is in no rush to get a deal done which is good, but it also leaves the door open to long and he will lose out in the end.
Other organization(s) on the fringe (Toronto) will make a deal just for the sake of media coverage regardless of actual need. The people there want Nash, the media there wants Nash....All to bask in the NHL spotlight and media coverage until seasons end in the motherland of hockey... End of story...Rangers make a minor move that amounts to nothing on Monday... End of story...Now enjoy your weekend's!!

When Nash rumors started flying around the majority of the Toronto press and fans (most fans) wanted to stay away from Nash, now that it's down to a potentially two horse race, they (media/fans/organization) don't want to lose Nash to the NY Rangers
The leafs GM is dumb too. Going after that when the goalies are on the decline or havent been good, and the defense is kinda iffy.

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02-24-2012, 05:07 PM
  #912
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Watch out if we don't win tonight.
if we dont win tonight pull the trigger. Because an L here would be embarrassing

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02-24-2012, 05:08 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
yeah, i just thought about adding that, I heard that around 1:30ish on NHL home ice sirius xm, but the last article i posted had a time of 345...so I am a bit curious, not sure which to believe

see Jackpot's post above this one...if that was at 4, most likely he is off the market...but I would bet with the right deal lombardi would trade brown.
I agree with what another poster said. They probably originally said he was available but then started asking around the league to see the possible return and they didn't like it so they told the media the hadn't made him available.

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02-24-2012, 05:08 PM
  #914
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No, I love Dubinsky's effort. But, its only natural to let go of that extra something when you already got your pay day.
But he hasn't. That's the point. Dubinsky doesn't need a "fire lit under his ass." His effort has been impeccable. His issue is in his head right now. I've seen it happen with athletes in every sport. They go on a slump, and the longer that slump goes on , the tougher it is to break. It often lasts until the end of that season, as the player starts avoiding the things that highlight the problem (ie- why Dubi is throwing himself into defense, PKing and playmaking, and avoiding taking shots) out of a desire to keep his personal slump from hurting the team. Only on rare occasions (most obvious example I can think of is former Yankee Chuck Knoblauch) does the problem go beyond the one season.

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Regardless, that isn't the point. Dubinsky is not a star in this league. He's an average player at best. The fans have an emotional connection with him, he's been here for SIX years already. He is who he is. Are you looking for him to finally 'break out' and put up ridiculous numbers? No, he's not going too. Like I said, we know who he is as a player. I love him as a player, but not as much as I would love Nash's production on a team like ours.
If it isn't the point, then why did you make multiple posts where that was the sole argument? You only say it isn't the point now, because your point wasn't valid. The above quote ALSO "isn't the point" for that matter. Everything you said about Dubinsky can be applied equally to Callahan, Anisimov and Staal. Suggest trading them (well, Cally and Staal) for Nash, and you're liable to get your face ripped off.

It isn't about whether Nash is better than Dubinsky (anyone who has seen both play that doesn't agree that Nash is the better player is a fool). It isn't about Dubinsky being in a slump (Nash and half the other players this board drools over are ALSO slumping hard this year). To me, it's about three things-- Which player gives you more for his contract (I'd take Dubi at 4 million over Nash at 8, taking into account the cap situation, our RFAs and defense), which player fits the team's identity better (pretty obvious), and (the key point, to me) whether or not you think this team will be a contender for the next few years.

People clamoring for this trade seem to think it's an all or nothing year. I came into this season expecting the team to be good (3rd to 5th place in the East) but not as good as they've been. I figured that the team would be at its best in 12/13 and 13/14, when the top prospects were on the roster (Erixon, Kreider, McI, Miller) and the current young players were "young veterans" (MDZ, McD, Hagelin, Step). Add those two groups to the core (Cally, Staal, Dubi, Girardi, AA and Hank--all of whom would be in their primes) and a couple of strategic pickups (Gabby, Richards and maybe one more, cap permitting, in the summer of 2012) and you've got a team that would threaten for the cup for a few years running. I want the team to stick with what they've got, see where it takes them, and add from there, and the LAST thing I want the team to do is trade away parts of the core that have a history of stepping up their games in the playoffs.

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Nice opinion, but his numbers tell a different story, and thats him playing on the worst team in the league the past nine years. Him having the opportunity to play with the guys we have, on an inspired team looking to go deep in the playoffs and a realistic shot at winning the stanley cup is enough motivation for him to kick ass and do what he does best. Score. Something we need.
I don't care about numbers. I care about what I see when I watch him play (and I've seen about 50 CBJ games over the last 3 and a half seasons). I also very much disagree with this notion that's suddenly become all the rage that Nash has had no help. Vyborny, Zherdev, Umberger, Carter, Vermette--ALL of those guys are solid, top 6 players. Some (Vyborny and Carter) are/were better than most of the guys we've got on this roster. Columbus loses because their defense and goaltending is atrocious--Not because they have AHL forwards in the top 6.

Extra scoring would be nice, but it's not worth what Nash will cost in assets and cap. THIS team, as currently constructed, has only lost 4 out of any 7 games twice (I think--I'm working on memory) all season (and one of those times was that awful first month). It's a need. It should be addressed if it can be done cheaply (ie- 1st round pick and middling prospect). If not, this group of players has earned the right to see if they can do what they've done all season on their way to a Stanley Cup. If they can't. then it's not the end of the world. They can add to what they have for free over the summer, AND add pieces like Kreider and Erixon (both of whom will help scoring).

I just think this group has earned the right to do that. Sorry for the novel, I just realized how long this post was, haha.

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02-24-2012, 05:10 PM
  #915
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Sorry I was just adding input to the discussion to in essence agree with you that it's ridiculous that we are talking trades of our own players
No I know, I agree with you just thought it was funny we were doing that!

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02-24-2012, 05:16 PM
  #916
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No I know, I agree with you just thought it was funny we were doing that!
LOL no worries. This trade deadline needs to come now. At this point I dont care if we get Nash or not, just as long as this ends.

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02-24-2012, 05:16 PM
  #917
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I was so confiden the Rangers would get Nash by the deadline that I was waiting for when not if.

There are so many people saying they don't think it will happen that unfortunately I don't feel as confident anymore. It's not that I'm scared another team will come in and still him, I just don't think Howson will move him and I think that will be a mistake if he doesn't deal him now.

Hopefully we can still get him but I'm feeling more like he'll stay where he is for now.
This,

If you have a small (really small) list...you get offers, you think about it..Wait in hopes someone throws an extra cookie in the bag...Well, that's Howson..He's waiting for the Leafs to throw that cookie in the bag. He knows what the Rangers have on the table and if I'm Howson I walk..

Dubi : Hmmm possible 2nd liner, bad season, third line grinder??

Christian who??

Big young defensemen McIlrath - Nice, project, might even be a stud one day, or flop

1st - That's nice, as expected...

So really, what I can expect is a 1st rounder, a nice third line, possible second line grinder. Everything beyond that is a roll of the dice (even the 1st rounder)....Not enough, I walk and move him for more later if I can, if not I end up looking like an idiot over the summer when nobody really cares about hockey anyway, it will be news, but everyone will be out on a lake enjoying the weather when the story breaks...

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02-24-2012, 05:25 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
What is plan B? So simple to say go for plan B but I don't ever remember hearing about one.
Plan B is called "time." None of us thought the Rangers would be competing for a Cup this season. The fact that they are winning as much as they are is a good thing, but it shouldn't upset the overall plan. As soon as next season, this team can add Kreider, Erixon and maybe a FA pickup to THIS team. Being patient can (and usually does) pay off more than being rash.

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02-24-2012, 05:26 PM
  #919
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i won't quote the post, cuz it's long, but smoneil above says it all. give this team a chance. it's well-constructed talent-wise, age-wise, salary-wise for a long run. no need to panic now and make a melo-type trade. be patient. this team deserves a shot. no prob with adding parts but no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. well said, sir.

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02-24-2012, 05:27 PM
  #920
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02-24-2012, 05:27 PM
  #921
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I agree with what another poster said. They probably originally said he was available but then started asking around the league to see the possible return and they didn't like it so they told the media the hadn't made him available.
Even McKenzie said "IF LAK are no longer considering trading Dustin Brown, as @FriedgeHNIC tweeted, I can most certainly assure you they were."

And it's either to save face with Brown so that he doesn't feel slighted, or since Lombardi knows the Rangers are going to be interested in Brown, but he also knows they're waiting out Howson's decision and will move to Brown as Plan B as it gets closer to the deadline, so now if they are forced to Plan B, Lombardi can "ask for more" since Brown isn't truly "available." Sather isn't dumb, though, and I don't see that having any affect on negotiations, except to end them, which Sather wouldn't lose any sleep over, so I'm inclined to think it was more likely just to save face with Brown after Lombardi realized he wasn't going to get an offer worth enough.

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02-24-2012, 05:29 PM
  #922
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So you shop your captain and franchise player all over the league and then don't get a deal done . Im not so sure that happens . For all we know Nash wants to move and play in the playoffs and prove he is a top 10 player in THR league .

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02-24-2012, 05:31 PM
  #923
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Even McKenzie said "IF LAK are no longer considering trading Dustin Brown, as @FriedgeHNIC tweeted, I can most certainly assure you they were."
That's exactly what I was saying...

They were shopping him, didn't like the return, and went back and told the media they weren't trying to trade him.

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02-24-2012, 05:33 PM
  #924
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Agree that I think Dubinsky's goal scoring confidence has gone south. And it is in his head. I don't see him as a big time goal scorer but I do see him being a consistent 20 + guy--it's just that this season it's not there and it happens. As an example Rod Gilbert was a big time goal scorer for the Rangers for a long time but in the 69-70 season he couldn't put the puck in the net. He had 16 goals for the season and I think he scored twice the last game that year. After that he consistently hit for 30 or more the rest of his career. We could look at Gaborik last year. Same frigging thing and if we're going to be honest other players took up the slack for Gaborik's lack of production and one of them was Dubinsky. Which isn't to say I can't see trading Dubinsky for a player who is a true upgrade--keeping the rest of the pieces in the trade in mind but I do think it's ridiculous for some posters here to be so nasty to a younger player who has played very hard for this team for a while and who obviously has these confidence issues. In the event that Brandon is still a Ranger on tuesday I'm not going to be disappointed about it. He's been a good soldier for us.

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02-24-2012, 05:37 PM
  #925
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Plan B is called "time." None of us thought the Rangers would be competing for a Cup this season. The fact that they are winning as much as they are is a good thing, but it shouldn't upset the overall plan. As soon as next season, this team can add Kreider, Erixon and maybe a FA pickup to THIS team. Being patient can (and usually does) pay off more than being rash.
I think Plan B is probably a pure rental forward by Monday and the pursuit Parise in July if available, or exploration of the trade market again during the summer. The pursuit of Nash demonstrates that Sather wants another superstar piece, for better or worse.

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