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Nash Rumors VII: This Could Get Nash-ty (*************** is NOT a legitimate source)

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02-24-2012, 10:26 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
You ****ing QUOTED it! And my response, that you just quoted, quotes someone else who also quoted it!
What?

Im looking at the link BRF posted now, which is what I was asking..detailed cap.

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02-24-2012, 10:28 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Hah!

Aw, that's alright, it got RL605 to ask me to link to it. Now I feel like it wasn't completely wasted.


Ask and you shall receive.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...=#post44361751
Excellent post. Although I do think that Stepan and McDonagh are going to get slightly more than we're used to seeing from guys on their 2nd contracts on this team. Why? Because at that point we should be talking about relatively established 1st line and 1st pair players. Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Sauer, Del Zotto are all 2nd line, 2nd pair players. Remember, Marc Staal's 2nd contract was worth almost $4m.


Last edited by Tawnos: 02-24-2012 at 10:39 PM.
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02-24-2012, 10:29 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
What?

Im looking at the link BRF posted now, which is what I was asking..detailed cap.
You'll find that if you're more precise in your statements, people will understand you better.

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02-24-2012, 10:32 PM
  #104
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Nash will almost certainly be traded tomorrow or tonight if he is going to be traded.

The Blue Jackets play on Sunday, Rangers play on Monday. Rangers need to get a deal done by Sunday, maybe the deadline for them is tomorrow, even.

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02-24-2012, 10:32 PM
  #105
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Never ventured to the Rangers board. I come in peace as a day one season ticket holder for the CBJ. The biggest knock you can make on Rick Nash is that he can appear unmotivated at times. Personally I think the losing has taken its' toll on him. Nash is a player who does play in all three zones. He thinks offense first and certainly loses position in his own zone but he is not lazy and is not afraid to come deep into the defensive zone to make a play. I trust the words of Ken Hitchcock who characterized Nash as one of the best PK players in the league and a threat to score on every shift. Oddly enough Arniel did not see it that way.

Where Rick was on the #1 PK and PP unit when Hitch was the coach, he played less than 20 sec per game under Arniel (I did not look up actual stats but he was not in the top 3 PK units). Richards has given him a little more time but I guess the point is he is someone that can play in every situation. Nash is at his best down low and coming off the half wall. I've never seen him take a slap shop but he has a nice snap shot and his wrist shot is excellent. He's got good speed, hits and will stand up for teammates.

I know it's an over used statement on HF but for Rick, I would love to see him play with a solid top 6. I don't think he's a guy that is "the guy" on a team but with multiple threats he would most assuredly return to a 40 goal guy and 80+ pts per year. He's not perfect and clearly isn't in the class of Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby. Full disclosure I grew up an Isles fan in the 80's but if there is a team that could get Rick the cup I believe it is the Rangers and that's more than just this year.

What people probably don't recognize on here is that Rick Nash IS the Columbus Blue Jackets in the city. It's like Payton Manning to the Colts (Status not necessarily impact). He is the CBJ franchise player and for most of us that means a high return. You'll see your idiot CBJ fans with proposals that are ludicrous but as a hockey fan I can tell you I haven't watched many players with the size, speed and skill set that Rick Nash has.

Good luck regardless. I just wanted to offer some insight (Which may have been provided in one of the other threads). If duplication my apologies. I'm just hopeful we get a good enough return to actually develop a winner in Columbus.

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02-24-2012, 10:33 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Gaborik has 34 games of playoffs experience, Rupp has 42. Richards has 63 and Feds has 88 games. Lundqvist has 35. Callahan has 27 and Staal has 22 games. It's not like this team is completely derth of playing in the playoffs. Losing Dubinsky's 22 playoff games will not harm this club. Add the goal scoring ability and more importantly (and what seems to be ignored by most) is how it will force the opposition teams coach to choose been Nash and Gaborik as to who to play their top defensmen/defensive forwards against.

This is at least the second or third time that you responded to a point that I was never making. Please read more carefully. I specifically argued about this team lacking deep playoff experience, and specifically in a meaningful role. None of Callahan's playoff games were in a meaningful role. He was a 3rd liner along for the ride. He hasn't seen a post-season game in three years. Staal, Lundqvist, Girardi (why'd you leave him out?) and Dubinsky for that matter, have never played a post-season game past the second round. Going deep matters. If you've ever played a tournament of any kind, you know how much tougher the games get as the tournament goes on. NHL player after player has commented on how important it is to experience it--to know what it's like--if you want to succeed.

There are only four guys on the roster who have. Two 4th liners, and two 1st liners. I just don't think that's enough, and I can't think of any recent (last 10-15 years) team that has won the Cup with that kind of inexperience throughout the roster.

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02-24-2012, 10:34 PM
  #107
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You need to read a bit more closely between those lines. I was fine with including Dubinsky when we were discussing Bobby Ryan earlier in the season. I would seriously consider it if we were talking about Dustin Brown (depending on what other pieces would be involved in the trade). Hell, I might even consider it for Selanne, as he has playoff experience out the wazoo (though I would prefer to see them try to get him on the cheap). It has nothing to do with "don't trade my favorite player" (MDZ by the way--my favorite players have almost always been D-Men).



For the answer to that, just see my posts on the team's lack of playoff experience. The only reason to spend the assets and cap space NOW for a top-end goal scorer is if you think this team will win the Cup this year. I just don't see it. I can't remember ANY team winning the Cup with as many key players being post-season newbies. I want to see the team maybe add a peripheral piece or two and see what they can do this year. It will probably be very telling (ie- on a deep playoff run, who wilts? Who explodes? Some players might surprise us in good or bad ways). Then make the moves you want to make in the off-season. I prefer the safe, patient approach.
Regardless, the issue about experience (which is overstated I believe - we have plenty of players with playoff experience plus 3 SC winners) doesn't discount the issue of getting core scoring talent.

Now, you tell me Bobby Ryan is available for the same offer and I'm all over it! I was jumping up and down yelling for him when he was rumored to be available earlier this year for the same reasons. But, there are no indications that he's available now (and I don't blame the Ducks). Rick Nash IS. Go get him. He becomes part of your core - and the system then continues to produce the Callahans and Anisimovs and Hagelins and, yes, Dubinskys to fill in around him.

And for the record, on the subject of cap hits and how they force you to construct your roster and what players to keep and what players to let go: I'd MUCH rather overspend $500K-$1MM on my top, top talent as opposed to underperforming 3rd liners and bottom pairing D-men. You can justify the 15% overpayments - it's the 50% overpayments that screw you in the long run.

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02-24-2012, 10:37 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Never ventured to the Rangers board. I come in peace as a day one season ticket holder for the CBJ. The biggest knock you can make on Rick Nash is that he can appear unmotivated at times. Personally I think the losing has taken its' toll on him. Nash is a player who does play in all three zones. He thinks offense first and certainly loses position in his own zone but he is not lazy and is not afraid to come deep into the defensive zone to make a play. I trust the words of Ken Hitchcock who characterized Nash as one of the best PK players in the league and a threat to score on every shift. Oddly enough Arniel did not see it that way.

Where Rick was on the #1 PK and PP unit when Hitch was the coach, he played less than 20 sec per game under Arniel (I did not look up actual stats but he was not in the top 3 PK units). Richards has given him a little more time but I guess the point is he is someone that can play in every situation. Nash is at his best down low and coming off the half wall. I've never seen him take a slap shop but he has a nice snap shot and his wrist shot is excellent. He's got good speed, hits and will stand up for teammates.

I know it's an over used statement on HF but for Rick, I would love to see him play with a solid top 6. I don't think he's a guy that is "the guy" on a team but with multiple threats he would most assuredly return to a 40 goal guy and 80+ pts per year. He's not perfect and clearly isn't in the class of Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby. Full disclosure I grew up an Isles fan in the 80's but if there is a team that could get Rick the cup I believe it is the Rangers and that's more than just this year.

What people probably don't recognize on here is that Rick Nash IS the Columbus Blue Jackets in the city. It's like Payton Manning to the Colts (Status not necessarily impact). He is the CBJ franchise player and for most of us that means a high return. You'll see your idiot CBJ fans with proposals that are ludicrous but as a hockey fan I can tell you I haven't watched many players with the size, speed and skill set that Rick Nash has.

Good luck regardless. I just wanted to offer some insight (Which may have been provided in one of the other threads). If duplication my apologies. I'm just hopeful we get a good enough return to actually develop a winner in Columbus.
Thanks for the insight. He's just what this team needs.

If he is traded for the speculated package (Dubinsky/Erixon/Thomas/1st), it may be a disappointment on the surface, but you'll assuredly love the first two players. It's not a HUGE return, but it's better than what Thornton/Richards returned. Thomas has solid potential as a Cammalleri like player. For a package of futures, it's a good place to start. Add in Yakupov/Grigorenko and it gets better.

Good luck with the Jackets, wish them all the best.

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02-24-2012, 10:37 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Nash will almost certainly be traded tomorrow or tonight if he is going to be traded.

The Blue Jackets play on Sunday, Rangers play on Monday. Rangers need to get a deal done by Sunday, maybe the deadline for them is tomorrow, even.
I'm starting to get the feeling that Howson doesn't have the balls to follow through on a Nash trade.

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02-24-2012, 10:37 PM
  #110
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BRF, solid write up, but I still think Del Zotto, McDonagh, and Stepan may end up getting a little more. Add in 2014 with Lundqvist up for another 7 mill per contract or so, Cally up. Gaborik isn't too big of a deal considering you can trade him or let him walk, but then where are we then? Basically like where we are now except replace Gaborik with Nash, but a possible loss of assets. I've been saying it's Cup or bust for the next two years with Nash. Of course i'd take a Cup if it means a few seasons of mediocrity, but I just don't think he's worth his contract and his value is being overrated.

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02-24-2012, 10:37 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
This is at least the second or third time that you responded to a point that I was never making. Please read more carefully. I specifically argued about this team lacking deep playoff experience, and specifically in a meaningful role. None of Callahan's playoff games were in a meaningful role. He was a 3rd liner along for the ride. He hasn't seen a post-season game in three years. Staal, Lundqvist, Girardi (why'd you leave him out?) and Dubinsky for that matter, have never played a post-season game past the second round. Going deep matters. If you've ever played a tournament of any kind, you know how much tougher the games get as the tournament goes on. NHL player after player has commented on how important it is to experience it--to know what it's like--if you want to succeed.

There are only four guys on the roster who have. Two 4th liners, and two 1st liners. I just don't think that's enough, and I can't think of any recent (last 10-15 years) team that has won the Cup with that kind of inexperience throughout the roster.
So, by that logic, no matter what this team does it can't succeed in the playoffs. Better add Nash now so he can get that playoff experience for next season!

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02-24-2012, 10:44 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Excellent post. Although I do think that Stepan and McDonagh are going to get slightly more than we're used to seeing from guys on their 2nd contracts on this team. Why? Because at that point we should be talking about relatively established 1st line and 1 pair players. Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Sauer, Del Zotto are all 2nd line, 2nd pair players. Remember, Marc Staal's 2nd contract was worth almost $4m.
Fair enough. But, that's covered by the hedge of trading BOTH (as opposed to just one of) AA and Sauer if need be, which I mentioned towards the end - by two summers from now, you'll have other worthy ELC players to take their places on the 3rd line and 3rd pair, respectively, going into 2013-2014.

Also, if you want to keep them, you can look to move Gabby a year early or, yes, even explore the once unthinkable idea of trading Marc Staal - I mean, there's really no point in amassing 5 top pairing defensemen and hoarding them, given that having even 3 or 4 of them only leaves a limited amount of ice time for the remaining guys anyway.

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02-24-2012, 10:44 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
BRF, solid write up, but I still think Del Zotto, McDonagh, and Stepan may end up getting a little more. Add in 2014 with Lundqvist up for another 7 mill per contract or so, Cally up. Gaborik isn't too big of a deal considering you can trade him or let him walk, but then where are we then? Basically like where we are now except replace Gaborik with Nash, but a possible loss of assets. I've been saying it's Cup or bust for the next two years with Nash. Of course i'd take a Cup if it means a few seasons of mediocrity, but I just don't think he's worth his contract and his value is being overrated.
I'll go out on a limb and make a prediction that Lundqvist is going to sign for a contract that takes him to 38-40 and is worth about $5m on average. You can use that $2m to give Callahan and Girardi raises, if need be. Or, as BRF correctly points out, we trade one of the defensemen. We're still going to be fine at that point.

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02-24-2012, 10:46 PM
  #114
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I'm starting to get the feeling that Howson doesn't have the balls to follow through on a Nash trade.
I'm right there with you.

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02-24-2012, 10:46 PM
  #115
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Did you even read my post? Not only did I specifically argue that this team is not like the 1994 team, I used many of the same arguments you are making in here. The ONLY reason I brought that team up was to contrast the difference in post-season experience (they had it--this team doesn't).



Fine by me. Use the Bruins or any post-lockout-era Cup winner as a point of comparison. Can you find me ONE team among that group that won the Cup with as many playoff neophytes as we have on this roster? Boston had a ton of players with deep-playoff runs on their resume, including almost all of their key players.

Look at the Pens. The year before they won their Cup, they made a deep run. They ended up losing, largely because they weren't prepared (they said as much themselves--they all said that you can be told about the grind, but until you've lived it, you have no idea). The season after? They knew what to expect and they won the cup. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see the team winning the Cup this year when 80 % of their defense has almost no playoff experience, and 60% of the projected top 6 (with Nash) hasn't been past the first round.
I read your post. I should've added that I totally agree that this team will probably have to make a deep run and LOSE before they can learn how to really play as a team in the playoffs and win it all. I agree that most of the players don't have a lot of playoff experience, but to be fair, a lot of the Tampa Bay 04 team (yes I realize that was pre-lockout, but it relates because we happen to have their leading scorer and Conn Smythe winner) didn't have a lot of playoff experience in the core of the team when they won. Richards himself had only been past the first round once, scoring 5 points (all assists) in 11 games the year before he scored 26 points in 23 games and won the cup.

However, the fact that you're still comparing them to the 94 team is what I have a problem with. When I say compare, I mean compare. I don't mean only compare in the positive sense and pointing out similarities. Citing major differences between the 94 and 12 teams is still comparing and it's still bogus as far as I'm concerned. You can make your extremely valid point about the teams little playoff experience overall without mentioning 94. There are examples every year of teams with tons of skill, or tons of the right parts who fall short, and often players learn valuable lessons in the playoffs. Sometimes, though, a young player shocks the world, and elevates his game to new heights in the playoffs, despite not having much experience. I see Stepan doing this honestly. And I think the lines going into the playoffs are going to be

Stepan Richards Gaborik
Dubinsky Anisimov Callahan
Hagelin Mitchell Fedotenko
Rupp Boyle Prust

These are the spots guys are most comfortable in. Stepan is definitely a center in the future, but for this team, without any major trades I think he's best served and the team is best served to have Stepan play on a line with Richards and Gaborik. Guys with first line skill....on the first line. Guys with second line skill...on the second line. Third and fourth liners in their comfortable spots.

It gives us a real first line. Let the other teams try to shut them down. They'll find a way to create a scoring chance. Meanwhile, Dubinsky Anisimov and Callahan are hitting you, on top of you, and have the ability to score.

Hagelin Mitchell Fedotenko has the right combination of youthful speed, veteran experience, and size. And all three players could score a few goals here and there in the playoffs.

It's usually someone unexpected who scores the big goals in long OT games.

I like this team as is, I think we could use a depth center who could play 3rd or 2nd line if needed. Jeff Halpern available? Or a younger Jeff Halpern? Wouldn't be opposed to Kostistyin either.

I think the time go all in will depend on how far we go this playoffs. If we don't get past the first or second round, we should be all in for Parise. Give him a similar long term deal to Richards but at a little bit higher cap hit, 7-8 would be fine with me.

If we win the Stanley Cup, then I'd still be in on Parise.

If we don't get Parise, then we start looking at trade options and watching Kreider's progress as he's likely going to make the Rangers out of camp. As there are every single season, some high paid player will become available for one reason or another. It happens every year, but every year when it happens posters here exclaim "players like Player rarely if ever become available." Hossa was available, not only as a rental from Atlanta but twice on the open market as an unrestricted free agent. He signed with the teams he thought had a best shot at the cup that year. Kovalchuk was available both as a rental and again as a free agent despite the fact that he re-signed with the devils after testing the waters. Mike Richards was traded. Jeff Carter has been traded twice now in the same season. Nash is available. Ryan was available but when Murray didn't get the level of offer he was looking for, he pulled him off the market. If Anaheim hadn't got their crap together, he'd likely be available again right now.

Fortunately for us, we're now in a position where when player X does hit free agency, or has a small list of teams he'd waive his NTC for, the Rangers are likely to be in the mix, at least from the players standpoint if winning is really more important than money, and to some guys(like Hossa and Brad Richards) it still is.

I just think we need to either get Nash completely on our terms, which Howson probably won't , but could accept, or we need to stand pat, maybe add a few depth role players, but keep Dubinsky and keep the core. Maybe even bring up Kreider in the playoffs if we're having trouble scoring.

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02-24-2012, 10:48 PM
  #116
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smoneil: I do agree somewhat with one thing. I, too, have a concern about the lack of playoff experience on this team. However, bringing in Nash doesn't change that issue one way or the other. It simply remains the same. So, let's say this year we get to the ECF. Is the team better next year with Dubinsky having that playoff experience or Nash having that playoff experience?

That argument is certainly valid, but IMO it's also very limited.
As I said earlier--I tend to be more of a cautious/patient type. We know, at least on a limited level, that Dubinsky raises his game in the playoffs (not particularly important--he's never been past the second round, but in a limited sample, he's shown up).

Keeping in mind that I really don't see the team as having a great chance at winning the Cup this year (ie-my entire outlook is based on that foundation that lack of experience = significantly lesser chance at the Cup)- my concerns are thus:

1- Why waste assets on Nash when we can acquire someone for free (FA) or with other assets (via trade) in the post-season? IF Dubinsky still needs to be traded at that point, the team gains the goal-scorer AND assets acquired for Dubinsky.

2- What if Nash wilts in the playoffs. Plenty of great players just can't do it from game 83 on (Thornton, Kovalchuck, every Washington Capital). I think Nash is overpaid. I think he floats. I think he doesn't really fit this team. If he had a history of scoring on deep playoff runs, I would have no problem overlooking those things. That's a huge risk for this team to take, and they have no real need to take that risk. If Nash is a playoff wilter--this team is ****ed. They won't have the cap space to address the problem. They won't have the expendable pieces to acquire help in trade (having spent those pieces on Nash). What would have been a team on the verge of a 3-year Cup window would suddenly be a team in disarray. You could argue that you could just trade Nash, but what would we get back? Columbus didn't get back half of what they spent on Carter.

I get why people are excited about this team. Before this season, we all thought that we were one or two years away from being a real Cup threat. This team's regular season play has people excited, and they want to believe that adding just one more guy will put them over. I still think this team is one or two years away from being a real Cup threat. They've learned to be a dominant regular season team. I see them making a deep run this year, and learning what it takes to make it through that grind. I worry about what will happen if you start making major changes to a team that's been moving in the right direction. By "major changes" I'm not just talking about removing Dubinsky, some futures, and our cap flexibility should something go wrong. I'm talking about adding Nash. He's historically been an underachiever, and all he knows how to do in the NHL is lose. He, unlike the current roster, has been brought up in this league in a losing atmosphere, and that's a tough thing to break out of.

As I said initially though--this is all contingent on the initial belief that this team really isn't likely to win the Cup this year, Nash or no Nash. If you disagree (and you are perfectly entitled to, of course--but I still can't think of a team that has won the Cup with this degree of inexperience amongst its key players), then it's easy to see my concerns as less than important.


Last edited by smoneil: 02-24-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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02-24-2012, 10:49 PM
  #117
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I really want this to happen for the reported offer. Would love to see Nash in a winning environment, playing with legitimate complimentary line mates, and with Torts squeezing every last drop of effort out of him.

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02-24-2012, 10:51 PM
  #118
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Thanks for the insight. He's just what this team needs.

If he is traded for the speculated package (Dubinsky/Erixon/Thomas/1st), it may be a disappointment on the surface, but you'll assuredly love the first two players. It's not a HUGE return, but it's better than what Thornton/Richards returned. Thomas has solid potential as a Cammalleri like player. For a package of futures, it's a good place to start. Add in Yakupov/Grigorenko and it gets better.

Good luck with the Jackets, wish them all the best.
Agree with all of this, Xoggz22. Good stuff in your original post - and good luck to you guys.

If you do get the package mentioned, I don't think you'll be disappointed in the long run. But, the pain of trading the best player in the deal and having to wait at least two years to see the real quality of what you got in return is certainly understandable.

Again, best of luck to you - I have always liked the Blue Jackets.

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02-24-2012, 10:51 PM
  #119
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This is a bad team because its offense is crap.

Its offense is crap for a number of reasons.

1. The bottom six forwards are unable to put the puck in the net.

Dubinsky works as hard as Callahan and is excellent along the boards. But he has six goals.

Boyle is the best defensive forward on this team. He's huge and is comparatively great at the faceoff. But he has five goals.

Prust is our best fighter, a great penalty killer, and another hard-worker. But he has 3 goals.

Rupp is just there. He's worse than Prust at fighting. I don't understand why any team needs three enforcers (Bickel included), let alone one full of scrappers who can hold their owns.

Mitchell is bound to take someone's eye out with a soccerball again.

Fedotenko will probably be that someone.

2. Tortorella's decisions.

Fedotenko was injured. Instead of giving Wolski or someone a shot, he dresses a rookie defenseman who can only fight as a forward. To me, this is Tortorella's decision to make the fourth line incapable of scoring. Not that it is unexpected to score, but it can't score at all.

Richards was brought in to play with Gaborik. Gaborik is his usual 37-goal self with Stepan, but how productive would he be with Richards?

And, in general, why is Tortorella so willing to give up on players like Deveaux while standing by Rupp?
3. The powerplay.

How long was Girardi on the powerplay? What was he supposed to add? Should we expect him to return to it? How about Staal? And Mitchell?


Now, I pose the relevant question...

How does Nash fix any of this?

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Old
02-24-2012, 10:55 PM
  #120
KingWantsCup
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Never ventured to the Rangers board. I come in peace as a day one season ticket holder for the CBJ. The biggest knock you can make on Rick Nash is that he can appear unmotivated at times. Personally I think the losing has taken its' toll on him. Nash is a player who does play in all three zones. He thinks offense first and certainly loses position in his own zone but he is not lazy and is not afraid to come deep into the defensive zone to make a play. I trust the words of Ken Hitchcock who characterized Nash as one of the best PK players in the league and a threat to score on every shift. Oddly enough Arniel did not see it that way.

Where Rick was on the #1 PK and PP unit when Hitch was the coach, he played less than 20 sec per game under Arniel (I did not look up actual stats but he was not in the top 3 PK units). Richards has given him a little more time but I guess the point is he is someone that can play in every situation. Nash is at his best down low and coming off the half wall. I've never seen him take a slap shop but he has a nice snap shot and his wrist shot is excellent. He's got good speed, hits and will stand up for teammates.

I know it's an over used statement on HF but for Rick, I would love to see him play with a solid top 6. I don't think he's a guy that is "the guy" on a team but with multiple threats he would most assuredly return to a 40 goal guy and 80+ pts per year. He's not perfect and clearly isn't in the class of Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby. Full disclosure I grew up an Isles fan in the 80's but if there is a team that could get Rick the cup I believe it is the Rangers and that's more than just this year.

What people probably don't recognize on here is that Rick Nash IS the Columbus Blue Jackets in the city. It's like Payton Manning to the Colts (Status not necessarily impact). He is the CBJ franchise player and for most of us that means a high return. You'll see your idiot CBJ fans with proposals that are ludicrous but as a hockey fan I can tell you I haven't watched many players with the size, speed and skill set that Rick Nash has.

Good luck regardless. I just wanted to offer some insight (Which may have been provided in one of the other threads). If duplication my apologies. I'm just hopeful we get a good enough return to actually develop a winner in Columbus.
Excellent post! Thanks for your input on Nash. It would be awesome if he was here. I think that Nash will receive a better package than other stars have gotten in the recent past (Kovalchuk, Heatley). With that said I wouldn't expect any potential stars going to Columbus, from anyone really. The Rangers only have one of those for offense and that's Kreider. Rangers management has already stated that they're not interested in trading him. I still believe the Rangers' offer will be fair if it's what is rumored and help Columbus in more areas for a quicker rebuild.

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Old
02-24-2012, 10:55 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Never ventured to the Rangers board. I come in peace as a day one season ticket holder for the CBJ. The biggest knock you can make on Rick Nash is that he can appear unmotivated at times. Personally I think the losing has taken its' toll on him. Nash is a player who does play in all three zones. He thinks offense first and certainly loses position in his own zone but he is not lazy and is not afraid to come deep into the defensive zone to make a play. I trust the words of Ken Hitchcock who characterized Nash as one of the best PK players in the league and a threat to score on every shift. Oddly enough Arniel did not see it that way.

Where Rick was on the #1 PK and PP unit when Hitch was the coach, he played less than 20 sec per game under Arniel (I did not look up actual stats but he was not in the top 3 PK units). Richards has given him a little more time but I guess the point is he is someone that can play in every situation. Nash is at his best down low and coming off the half wall. I've never seen him take a slap shop but he has a nice snap shot and his wrist shot is excellent. He's got good speed, hits and will stand up for teammates.

I know it's an over used statement on HF but for Rick, I would love to see him play with a solid top 6. I don't think he's a guy that is "the guy" on a team but with multiple threats he would most assuredly return to a 40 goal guy and 80+ pts per year. He's not perfect and clearly isn't in the class of Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby. Full disclosure I grew up an Isles fan in the 80's but if there is a team that could get Rick the cup I believe it is the Rangers and that's more than just this year.

What people probably don't recognize on here is that Rick Nash IS the Columbus Blue Jackets in the city. It's like Payton Manning to the Colts (Status not necessarily impact). He is the CBJ franchise player and for most of us that means a high return. You'll see your idiot CBJ fans with proposals that are ludicrous but as a hockey fan I can tell you I haven't watched many players with the size, speed and skill set that Rick Nash has.

Good luck regardless. I just wanted to offer some insight (Which may have been provided in one of the other threads). If duplication my apologies. I'm just hopeful we get a good enough return to actually develop a winner in Columbus.
Excellent analysis.

Thanks a lot.

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02-24-2012, 10:58 PM
  #122
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No guarantees #CBJ captain Rick Nash is traded by Monday's deadline, but might be best for all parties to have a quick ending to this.
I think we all concur.

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02-24-2012, 10:58 PM
  #123
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Keeping in mind that I really don't see the team as having a great chance at winning the Cup this year (ie-my entire outlook is based on that foundation that lack of experience = significantly lesser chance at the Cup)- my concerns are thus
It all depends on if this year is considered part of our window or not. If it is, this kind of deal makes sense. If it's not, it doesn't. I agree with all of the concerns about experience. In some ways, for the deal we're talking about, I'm willing to let Nash grow with the team. Let's not forget the examples of Yzerman and Sakic. Both players were a combination of lack of playoff experience and playoff failures... that is, until they weren't, which just happened to coincide with finally having a good team around them. I'm not saying Rick Nash is as talented as Yzerman or Sakic. I'm just saying that lack of playoff experience and lack of playoff performance aren't necessary indicators of the future.

There is no guarantee that any of our player's will perform in the playoffs. Gaborik has a history of both performing and not. Lundqvist hasn't yet carried the team to a series win, although his performance has been fine in my eyes. In other words, standing pat doesn't guarantee us anything either.

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02-24-2012, 10:58 PM
  #124
Barbara Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Never ventured to the Rangers board. I come in peace as a day one season ticket holder for the CBJ. The biggest knock you can make on Rick Nash is that he can appear unmotivated at times. Personally I think the losing has taken its' toll on him. Nash is a player who does play in all three zones. He thinks offense first and certainly loses position in his own zone but he is not lazy and is not afraid to come deep into the defensive zone to make a play. I trust the words of Ken Hitchcock who characterized Nash as one of the best PK players in the league and a threat to score on every shift. Oddly enough Arniel did not see it that way.

Where Rick was on the #1 PK and PP unit when Hitch was the coach, he played less than 20 sec per game under Arniel (I did not look up actual stats but he was not in the top 3 PK units). Richards has given him a little more time but I guess the point is he is someone that can play in every situation. Nash is at his best down low and coming off the half wall. I've never seen him take a slap shop but he has a nice snap shot and his wrist shot is excellent. He's got good speed, hits and will stand up for teammates.

I know it's an over used statement on HF but for Rick, I would love to see him play with a solid top 6. I don't think he's a guy that is "the guy" on a team but with multiple threats he would most assuredly return to a 40 goal guy and 80+ pts per year. He's not perfect and clearly isn't in the class of Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby. Full disclosure I grew up an Isles fan in the 80's but if there is a team that could get Rick the cup I believe it is the Rangers and that's more than just this year.

What people probably don't recognize on here is that Rick Nash IS the Columbus Blue Jackets in the city. It's like Payton Manning to the Colts (Status not necessarily impact). He is the CBJ franchise player and for most of us that means a high return. You'll see your idiot CBJ fans with proposals that are ludicrous but as a hockey fan I can tell you I haven't watched many players with the size, speed and skill set that Rick Nash has.

Good luck regardless. I just wanted to offer some insight (Which may have been provided in one of the other threads). If duplication my apologies. I'm just hopeful we get a good enough return to actually develop a winner in Columbus.
Awesome post, agree with your analysis as that's what Rick Nash appears to be to me. Especially the part about not being the "man" more of a complimentary borderline elite guy.

Sadly most of this will be ignored by the anti-Nash contingent.

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Old
02-24-2012, 10:58 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Aileen C View Post
This is a bad team because its offense is crap.

Its offense is crap for a number of reasons.

1. The bottom six forwards are unable to put the puck in the net.

Dubinsky works as hard as Callahan and is excellent along the boards. But he has six goals.

Boyle is the best defensive forward on this team. He's huge and is comparatively great at the faceoff. But he has five goals.

Prust is our best fighter, a great penalty killer, and another hard-worker. But he has 3 goals.

Rupp is just there. He's worse than Prust at fighting. I don't understand why any team needs three enforcers (Bickel included), let alone one full of scrappers who can hold their owns.

Mitchell is bound to take someone's eye out with a soccerball again.

Fedotenko will probably be that someone.

2. Tortorella's decisions.

Fedotenko was injured. Instead of giving Wolski or someone a shot, he dresses a rookie defenseman who can only fight as a forward. To me, this is Tortorella's decision to make the fourth line incapable of scoring. Not that it is unexpected to score, but it can't score at all.

Richards was brought in to play with Gaborik. Gaborik is his usual 37-goal self with Stepan, but how productive would he be with Richards?

And, in general, why is Tortorella so willing to give up on players like Deveaux while standing by Rupp?
3. The powerplay.

How long was Girardi on the powerplay? What was he supposed to add? Should we expect him to return to it? How about Staal? And Mitchell?


Now, I pose the relevant question...

How does Nash fix any of this?
I don't think the record of this team can agree with the first part there. I do agree that our offense is not good enough to win, but Henrik Lundqvist and the defense is why this team is in 1st.

Good point there about Rupp, but I honestly don't care all that much about his ice time, when we need our top 9 guys to start heating up. It's a problem when Rupp is put in that position though.

Staal scored on the powerplay tonight.

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