HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Kings trade Jack Johnson and a 1st Round Pick to CBJ for Jeff Carter

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-24-2012, 11:50 PM
  #651
ScoreZeGoals
Back on Cloud 9
 
ScoreZeGoals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 10,246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogEatDog View Post
why am I amused that on the king board an oiler blog is being used
Kinda hard to argue with the analysis

ScoreZeGoals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2012, 11:57 PM
  #652
Live in the Now
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Live in the Now's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: LA
Country: United States
Posts: 31,415
vCash: 50
I didn't want to seem like I was bashing him yesterday in the wake of the trade, but that's absolutely true.

It is hard to argue with, and that will be painfully evident after a few games without him unless Voynov comes back up and stinks things out. To have 12 points in the playoffs over two years and still have a -7...I don't know how that's possible in all honesty.

Fact is we have to beat teams like Detroit and Vancouver to get where we want to go over the next decade, and I don't think Jack's game matches up great against puck possession teams where defensemen have to chase the opponent around as they skate the puck all over the place.

Live in the Now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 12:08 AM
  #653
johnjm22
16,005
 
johnjm22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barstow, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
To have 12 points in the playoffs over two years and still have a -7...I don't know how that's possible in all honesty.
Well if I recall correctly, most of those 12 points were scored on the PP, so you don't get a "+" for those.

johnjm22 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 12:55 AM
  #654
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
 
KopitarFAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 9,427
vCash: 500
Why are people suddenly calling Carter injury prone? Prior to this year he had averaged 77 games per year.

KopitarFAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 12:57 AM
  #655
Live in the Now
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Live in the Now's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: LA
Country: United States
Posts: 31,415
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Well if I recall correctly, most of those 12 points were scored on the PP, so you don't get a "+" for those.
That's true. But I mean, that's still a huge - total for having been on the ice for ES goals as well.

Live in the Now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 04:02 AM
  #656
johnjm22
16,005
 
johnjm22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Barstow, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,457
vCash: 500
By the time you get into your late 20s, partying gets kind of old. I'm 28 now, I did my fair share, but it seems like me and most of peers are pretty much over it.

As for why MR and JF were traded, I think there was probably a combination of reasons, but sometimes things just need to be shaken up. I think Philly was ready to head in a new direction. Washington and LA seem to be in similar situations right now. Both teams look flat; a shake up is in order.

johnjm22 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 07:39 AM
  #657
FrozenRoyalty
HFB Partner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 1,203
vCash: 500
LA KIngs React To Carter-Johnson Trade; Wait For Possible Other Skate To Drop

FrozenRoyalty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 08:02 AM
  #658
Ollie Weeks
Registered User
 
Ollie Weeks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, NWO
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,718
vCash: 500
If they can get us somewhere, first round's on me.

Ollie Weeks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 09:48 AM
  #659
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!
 
PSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
i may have missed it, but what exactly are the negative nancy's (tomd and psp) position on this trade? let me guess, they have no position. because they are waiting for the first dip in the road before they can be "proven right".

ya, and psp, what high ranking prospects? teubert and schenn? without going through the list, i think only schenn is the one we're going to miss. and like someone else said, what cap space? you mean the $7+ mil coming off from penner and Stoll next year alone? that lack of cap space?
Well, Schenn was one of the top prospects in the NHL when he was traded.

The $7+ mil coming off from Penner and Stoll will be needed to replace those two players. DL has consistently overpaid mid-level free agents, so that money is probably already gone. It may or may not improve the team (although it would be tough not to improve)

Remember the early 2000s? The Kings didn't have much of consequence in the pipeline because they had traded away a bunch of high draft picks in the late 90s. Sure, they had players that you guys love to slam in hindsight, like Rosa, Lehoux, Shefer, etc. - but it left a huge void that led to the black hole days when there simply weren't any players in Manchester to step up.

Right now, the Kings have traded away over half of their 1st round picks or the player that they selected with that pick for the last 4 drafts and the next two. Doughty is part of the core, but Forbort is the only other one there. They have traded one of the next two with the Carter trade and who knows what happens before the trade deadline.

I was under the impression that two big factors in DL's plan were to build an incredibly deep pipeline and then keep your options open. I don't see a deep pipeline at all and it seems like he is almost out of options. The last several trades have involved the Kings giving up multiple assets and in return getting one asset, but now (with the possible exception of Bernier) he can't trade anyone without creating a huge hole somewhere else - and the Kings still have plenty of holes.

PSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 11:12 AM
  #660
livingminimal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 51
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Well, Schenn was one of the top prospects in the NHL when he was traded.

The $7+ mil coming off from Penner and Stoll will be needed to replace those two players. DL has consistently overpaid mid-level free agents, so that money is probably already gone. It may or may not improve the team (although it would be tough not to improve)

Remember the early 2000s? The Kings didn't have much of consequence in the pipeline because they had traded away a bunch of high draft picks in the late 90s. Sure, they had players that you guys love to slam in hindsight, like Rosa, Lehoux, Shefer, etc. - but it left a huge void that led to the black hole days when there simply weren't any players in Manchester to step up.

Right now, the Kings have traded away over half of their 1st round picks or the player that they selected with that pick for the last 4 drafts and the next two. Doughty is part of the core, but Forbort is the only other one there. They have traded one of the next two with the Carter trade and who knows what happens before the trade deadline.

I was under the impression that two big factors in DL's plan were to build an incredibly deep pipeline and then keep your options open. I don't see a deep pipeline at all and it seems like he is almost out of options. The last several trades have involved the Kings giving up multiple assets and in return getting one asset, but now (with the possible exception of Bernier) he can't trade anyone without creating a huge hole somewhere else - and the Kings still have plenty of holes.

So you're asking Dean to do something that no other GM in the league can possibly do - give very little and get a lot in return, and be 100% right (Penner, clearly wrong) every time. It also seems like you're asking prospects to continue being great prospects.

Boy, I know I wish 11 was toiling away in the AHL. or AMart, or Voynov...

Where's Patrick O'Sullivan these days, anyway? or Colton Teubert?
You can make a case for Schenn getting traded as a tough one to swallow and I will say again, as I have every moment since that deal went down....
Simmer aside, strictly looking at this in the context of PROSPECT MOVEMENT, you traded a guy that had the potential to possibly be a Mike Richards type of player...for...well, the real Mike Richards. Man, that's something to complain about.

Did you complain when Frolov walked too?

livingminimal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 12:09 PM
  #661
Winger23
Registered User
 
Winger23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Well, Schenn was one of the top prospects in the NHL when he was traded.

The $7+ mil coming off from Penner and Stoll will be needed to replace those two players. DL has consistently overpaid mid-level free agents, so that money is probably already gone. It may or may not improve the team (although it would be tough not to improve)

Remember the early 2000s? The Kings didn't have much of consequence in the pipeline because they had traded away a bunch of high draft picks in the late 90s. Sure, they had players that you guys love to slam in hindsight, like Rosa, Lehoux, Shefer, etc. - but it left a huge void that led to the black hole days when there simply weren't any players in Manchester to step up.

Right now, the Kings have traded away over half of their 1st round picks or the player that they selected with that pick for the last 4 drafts and the next two. Doughty is part of the core, but Forbort is the only other one there. They have traded one of the next two with the Carter trade and who knows what happens before the trade deadline.

I was under the impression that two big factors in DL's plan were to build an incredibly deep pipeline and then keep your options open. I don't see a deep pipeline at all and it seems like he is almost out of options. The last several trades have involved the Kings giving up multiple assets and in return getting one asset, but now (with the possible exception of Bernier) he can't trade anyone without creating a huge hole somewhere else - and the Kings still have plenty of holes.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what you are saying bro, but you said the kings have plenty of holes still..where? I think they most certainly need another top 6 winger (penner/stoll replacement) and the bottom six should be easy enough to upgrade in the off season. where else are they weak? They are more than good with defense, goal tending and centers.

Winger23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 12:28 PM
  #662
Nex06
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Well, Schenn was one of the top prospects in the NHL when he was traded.

The $7+ mil coming off from Penner and Stoll will be needed to replace those two players. DL has consistently overpaid mid-level free agents, so that money is probably already gone. It may or may not improve the team (although it would be tough not to improve)

Remember the early 2000s? The Kings didn't have much of consequence in the pipeline because they had traded away a bunch of high draft picks in the late 90s. Sure, they had players that you guys love to slam in hindsight, like Rosa, Lehoux, Shefer, etc. - but it left a huge void that led to the black hole days when there simply weren't any players in Manchester to step up.

Right now, the Kings have traded away over half of their 1st round picks or the player that they selected with that pick for the last 4 drafts and the next two. Doughty is part of the core, but Forbort is the only other one there. They have traded one of the next two with the Carter trade and who knows what happens before the trade deadline.

I was under the impression that two big factors in DL's plan were to build an incredibly deep pipeline and then keep your options open. I don't see a deep pipeline at all and it seems like he is almost out of options. The last several trades have involved the Kings giving up multiple assets and in return getting one asset, but now (with the possible exception of Bernier) he can't trade anyone without creating a huge hole somewhere else - and the Kings still have plenty of holes.
So you don't like the trade or...?

Nex06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 12:45 PM
  #663
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!
 
PSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what you are saying bro, but you said the kings have plenty of holes still..where? I think they most certainly need another top 6 winger (penner/stoll replacement) and the bottom six should be easy enough to upgrade in the off season. where else are they weak? They are more than good with defense, goal tending and centers.
They still don't have a true top 6 left wing. Carter will probably fill one of those spots, but that still leaves one. The bottom 6 is a work in progress, but theoretically easier to fix. I'm still not sold on the 5/6 D pairing. They should improve with time, but how much grief will it cost until then?

PSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:01 PM
  #664
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
Why are people suddenly calling Carter injury prone? Prior to this year he had averaged 77 games per year.
So that is how he decided what number to wear this year...

Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:01 PM
  #665
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!
 
PSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,290
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nex06 View Post
So you don't like the trade or...?
Jack Johnson was often more JWTFJ than JMFJ, so his loss won't be too big so long as Carter comes here to play. I understand that you have to give up assets to get what you want, but the loss of another 1st round draft choice is disturbing.

If Carter was the last piece of the puzzle, then absolutely make that trade - but does anyone honestly see Carter as the final piece to push them over the top? I understand that DL had to do something at some point to preserve his job. Is this move likely to make a difference this season? I don't know.

The other part of this that bothers me a bit is - if this was the path that DL was going to take, why didn't he start this 3 years ago instead of all of the fillers and bridgers or whatever that he spent a fortune on? If you can get solid players with good contracts for picks and prospects or young players, why wait? How many of the prospects in the Kings' pipeline went up in value vs how many have dropped in value? Do you think that you could have traded Hickey for more 3 years ago than now?

PSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:08 PM
  #666
damacles1156
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Jack Johnson was often more JWTFJ than JMFJ, so his loss won't be too big so long as Carter comes here to play. I understand that you have to give up assets to get what you want, but the loss of another 1st round draft choice is disturbing.

If Carter was the last piece of the puzzle, then absolutely make that trade - but does anyone honestly see Carter as the final piece to push them over the top? I understand that DL had to do something at some point to preserve his job. Is this move likely to make a difference this season? I don't know.

The other part of this that bothers me a bit is - if this was the path that DL was going to take, why didn't he start this 3 years ago instead of all of the fillers and bridgers or whatever that he spent a fortune on? If you can get solid players with good contracts for picks and prospects or young players, why wait? How many of the prospects in the Kings' pipeline went up in value vs how many have dropped in value? Do you think that you could have traded Hickey for more 3 years ago than now?

Hickey was a huge Reach and Injured his first pro year. His value is probably higher now then it ever was.

I don 't care about the First round pick(it's also conditional) it would have been in the 17 to 20's range. So far Dean has proved he sucks picking in those range's.

Carter is what the Kings lack bigtime(I don't care he is a Center the guy will shoot and score), Johnson is trading from a strength.

It is what it is , Dean screwed himself by not picking skilled forwards back in 2006 on. Letting Cammy/Frolov go not signing Gabo, the list goes on. But it's done, I don't blame him for trying to better the team. But I do blame him for having too cause of his mistakes.

But Like I said it is what it is. I am still a Kings fan.

damacles1156 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:11 PM
  #667
Bandit
Registered User
 
Bandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 5,450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
If Carter was the last piece of the puzzle, then absolutely make that trade - but does anyone honestly see Carter as the final piece to push them over the top?
If by "over the top" you mean into the 29th ranked offense instead of 30th, sure.

Bandit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:18 PM
  #668
Nex06
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,104
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Jack Johnson was often more JWTFJ than JMFJ, so his loss won't be too big so long as Carter comes here to play. I understand that you have to give up assets to get what you want, but the loss of another 1st round draft choice is disturbing.

If Carter was the last piece of the puzzle, then absolutely make that trade - but does anyone honestly see Carter as the final piece to push them over the top? I understand that DL had to do something at some point to preserve his job. Is this move likely to make a difference this season? I don't know.

The other part of this that bothers me a bit is - if this was the path that DL was going to take, why didn't he start this 3 years ago instead of all of the fillers and bridgers or whatever that he spent a fortune on? If you can get solid players with good contracts for picks and prospects or young players, why wait? How many of the prospects in the Kings' pipeline went up in value vs how many have dropped in value? Do you think that you could have traded Hickey for more 3 years ago than now?
The day the trade happened, I was thinking it's not a good trade. After I slept it over, I now think it's fine. Still nothing spectacular, just something that needed to be done to try to reach the next level. It's risky, but Lombardi has most often been criticized for lack of taking similar risks. I am leaning slightly towards approval, you seem to be leaning slightly in the opposite direction. I think most fans feel the same, somewhere around "I don't know."

But still I think that it is correct TYPE of a deal to be made by Lombardi at the moment. Just not sure if it is the right player, we will see. Obviously I am not going to criticize him for it next season, if it doesn't turn out well, since I don't have a very strong opinion now.

Nex06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:25 PM
  #669
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
is Carter playing tonight?

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:30 PM
  #670
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
 
KopitarFAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 9,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
is Carter playing tonight?
Nothing confirmed (to my knowledge), but it is assumed he will.

KopitarFAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:31 PM
  #671
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
Nothing confirmed (to my knowledge), but it is assumed he will.
thanks

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:34 PM
  #672
Willard
Kings All The Way
 
Willard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Just Off Highway 1
Posts: 2,508
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
is Carter playing tonight?
A press event with Carter will apparently happen at 2:45. Game time is 5:00. Assuming the physical results in a green light, the intention appears to be to put him on a line with Richards tonight.

Willard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:42 PM
  #673
DumpyD
Registered User
 
DumpyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willard View Post
A press event with Carter will apparently happen at 2:45. Game time is 5:00. Assuming the physical results in a green light, the intention appears to be to put him on a line with Richards tonight.
The few times Carter played on Richards' wing they stunk on ice. Just throwing that out there. For guys so closely acquainted, they have zero on-ice chemistry.

Carter on the wing never worked here, but I hope that changes in his new city.

DumpyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:51 PM
  #674
Kurrilino
Go Stoll Go
 
Kurrilino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,529
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Kurrilino
Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
The few times Carter played on Richards' wing they stunk on ice. Just throwing that out there. For guys so closely acquainted, they have zero on-ice chemistry.

Carter on the wing never worked here, but I hope that changes in his new city.
I'm not sure the loation has an impact on his hockey IQ.

I'm still undecided to like the trade or not.
We need scoring winger desperately but instead we bring in more Center.

Same witch Richards.... but we gave away a winger on top.

Well... time wil tell.
Pittsburgh won a cup with 3 1st line centers and absolutely no winger.
The differentmaker wil be the coaching and thant doesn't lok to god for me.

I can't see any purpose tp fire a coach just to repalce him with the exact same coach.

If a screwdriver isn't working to god to bang a nail into the wal just grab another screwdriver

Kurrilino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2012, 01:52 PM
  #675
MsWoof
Registered User
 
MsWoof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DumpyD View Post
The few times Carter played on Richards' wing they stunk on ice. Just throwing that out there. For guys so closely acquainted, they have zero on-ice chemistry.

Carter on the wing never worked here, but I hope that changes in his new city.
This will be interesting. The first time they played together was in the playoffs in 2010. Carter came back for game 5 vs Montreal (home of The Shift) and had 2 goals. Then they had 6 goals vs Chicago. I don't know how much they sucked but basically they and the Toews' line negated each other. Then they played a bit early in 2010/11 but not very much. If they play more than that in LA we should have an idea of how they work out.

MsWoof is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:13 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.