His PDO (save $ + shooting %) is .971. The norm is 1, last season he was 1.008. It's an aberration that corrects over time. I wouldn't worry about his +/-. His shot differential is fine, in the context of how many dzone faceoffs he takes, and his quality of competition.
I'd take an upgrade on Plekanec. I don't see a team agreeing to trade Getzlaf, Staal or Spezza for Plekanec. I also don't see any reason for their teams to do the deal for a package, unless it's so balanced in their favor that the Habs become a weaker team in the process.
If Grigorenko is the BPA at our pick according to the Habs' scouting department, go for it. If not, go for the actual BPA. Either way, we still need Plekanec until the pick develops (if ever) into a replacement or upgrade at the NHL level. In other words, for several years.
The idea is to upgrade at center to improve the team. Not for an upgrade at center's sake. Or to "finally get that big center." The way to go about putting together a top team is to make a long series of smart bets, to pick up undervalued players and to draft well. If we had some point have a genuine surplus of value at other positions, and believe we are lacking at center, we will be in a good position to make a trade.
At this point, Plekanec does the job. He is good value for his cap hit. His term is team-friendly. At his age a rapid decline would be surprising. There is still plenty of room for improvement on the wings, and tons of room for improvement on D.
Since a lot of you dont want to do a full rebuild, unless we pick first overall. we need to choose one of the big center available. Either its Grogorenko, Faksa, Galchenyuk. We need to solve our problem with having too many diminutive centers. Pick ojne of those guys and trade Plekanec go get help at some other position on the team. Plekanec is just not a guy you can build a team around. He chokes when we need him
His PDO (save $ + shooting %) is .971. The norm is 1, last season he was 1.008. It's an aberration that corrects over time. I wouldn't worry about his +/-. His shot differential is fine, in the context of how many dzone faceoffs he takes, and his quality of competition.
I'd take an upgrade on Plekanec. I don't see a team agreeing to trade Getzlaf, Staal or Spezza for Plekanec. I also don't see any reason for their teams to do the deal for a package, unless it's so balanced in their favor that the Habs become a weaker team in the process.
If Grigorenko is the BPA at our pick according to the Habs' scouting department, go for it. If not, go for the actual BPA. Either way, we still need Plekanec until the pick develops (if ever) into a replacement or upgrade at the NHL level. In other words, for several years.
The idea is to upgrade at center to improve the team. Not for an upgrade at center's sake. Or to "finally get that big center." The way to go about putting together a top team is to make a long series of smart bets, to pick up undervalued players and to draft well. If we at some point have a genuine surplus of value at other positions, and believe we are lacking at center, we will be in a good position to make a trade.
At this point, Plekanec does the job. He is good value for his cap hit. His term is team-friendly. At his age a rapid decline would be surprising. There is still plenty of room for improvement on the wings, and tons of room for improvement on D.
Great post but you were wasting your time tryin to refute Patofqc, he talks about + /- ad nauseum because he knows it's all he has for his "get rid of Plekanec at all costs" agenda.
His PDO (save $ + shooting %) is .971. The norm is 1, last season he was 1.008. It's an aberration that corrects over time. I wouldn't worry about his +/-. His shot differential is fine, in the context of how many dzone faceoffs he takes, and his quality of competition.
I'd take an upgrade on Plekanec. I don't see a team agreeing to trade Getzlaf, Staal or Spezza for Plekanec. I also don't see any reason for their teams to do the deal for a package, unless it's so balanced in their favor that the Habs become a weaker team in the process.
If Grigorenko is the BPA at our pick according to the Habs' scouting department, go for it. If not, go for the actual BPA. Either way, we still need Plekanec until the pick develops (if ever) into a replacement or upgrade at the NHL level. In other words, for several years.
The idea is to upgrade at center to improve the team. Not for an upgrade at center's sake. Or to "finally get that big center." The way to go about putting together a top team is to make a long series of smart bets, to pick up undervalued players and to draft well. If we at some point have a genuine surplus of value at other positions, and believe we are lacking at center, we will be in a good position to make a trade.
Edit: Seems like the low PDO is more due to his team worst SV% while on the ice than a low team shooting %. 0.888 SV%. Explains the +/-.
At this point, Plekanec does the job. He is good value for his cap hit. His term is team-friendly. At his age a rapid decline would be surprising. There is still plenty of room for improvement on the wings, and tons of room for improvement on D.
Getting a Malhotra type guy would help Plekanec, and the team as a whole, alot without costing too much. Giving him some wingers would probably help too. No one should expect a player with 60% Dzone starts in hard minutes to put up huge numbers. This really need to be addressed in the offseason, it should in fact be a priority. Personally, if management sign some useless goon to center our 4th line (or doesn't sign anyone) because of a new size and toughness complex instead of adressing a real problem and sign someone that can take some of Plekanec's responsabilties on D I won't have a whole lot of faith in them going foward.
Edit: Like you said, seems like the low PDO is more due to a team worst SV% while on the ice 5on5 than a low shooting %. 0.888 SV%.
Last edited by EllertoKostitsynGoal: 02-25-2012 at 10:40 PM.
Getting a Malhotra type guy would help Plekanec, and the team as a whole, alot without costing too much. Giving him some wingers would probably help too. No one should expect a player with 60% Dzone starts in hard minutes to put up huge numbers. This really need to be addressed in the offseason, it should in fact be a priority. Personally, if management sign some useless goon to center our 4th line (or doesn't sign anyone) because of a new size and toughness complex instead of adressing a real problem and sign someone that can take some of Plekanec's responsabilties on D I won't have a whole lot of faith in them going foward.
Good call.
I think it's pretty cool, how Vigneault is using Malhotra. Allocating ice time by zone start more than any other coach in the league, as far as I can tell. Using the Sedins in the o-zone, forcing the opposition, who usually play power-on-power against the twins to use their best in their d-zone. Then using Malhotra and Lapierre in their own end against the rest, willing to do that very specific task of winning faceoffs and clearing the Nucks' zone.
I think it's pretty cool, how Vigneault is using Malhotra. Allocating ice time by zone start more than any other coach in the league, as far as I can tell. Using the Sedins in the o-zone, forcing the opposition, who usually play power-on-power against the twins to use their best in their d-zone. Then using Malhotra and Lapierre in their own end against the rest, willing to do that very specific task of winning faceoffs and clearing the Nucks' zone.
Agreed, very smart coaching. I don't think Vancouver would an elite team if they were coached just power on power with everyone getting about equal zone starts. They'd be good. But not that good.
That's the model we should follow, get a guy to play the Malhotra role, put DD in the Sedin role and let Plekanec and Eller handle the rest, with Plek getting the tougher minutes out of the two.
Time for the poor guy to move elsewhere. He is suppose to be our best offensive guy, but he failed us again this year... and he is -18...
Why do you feel the need to bash Plekanec whenever possible? We get it, you are obsessed with Desharnais and think he is our best center even though he has the 2 best wingers and this is his first solid year. Get lost.
None of this is his fault. He,like koivu before him, simply aren't being used properly because of our failure to address one of the biggest needs on any successful hockey team. Acquiring a number 1 centre. Plekanec would be the perfect number 2 and if Jordan Staal can be a 3rd liner than so can Plekanec. Obviously the desharnais, cole, patches line isn't being broken up anytime soon, but on a stanley cup team they are a second line at most. We need to acquire a number 1 centre through trade or free agency and we have to take advantage of such a ****** year by drafting a few legitimate forward prospects. We can be a much better team in the near future. our defensive prospects are absoultely stack and completely taken care of, what we need is forwards. God dammit molson please hire someone who realizes that this team needs a number 1 centre. Heads up...pierre mcguire is somebody who does.
His PDO (on ice save % + shooting %) is .971. The norm is 1, last season he was 1.008. It's an aberration that corrects over time. I wouldn't worry about his +/-. His shot differential is fine, in the context of how many dzone faceoffs he takes, and his quality of competition.
I'd take an upgrade on Plekanec. I don't see a team agreeing to trade Getzlaf, Staal or Spezza for Plekanec. I also don't see any reason for their teams to do the deal for a package, unless it's so balanced in their favor that the Habs become a weaker team in the process.
If Grigorenko is the BPA at our pick according to the Habs' scouting department, go for it. If not, go for the actual BPA. Either way, we still need Plekanec until the pick develops (if ever) into a replacement or upgrade at the NHL level. In other words, for several years.
The idea is to upgrade at center to improve the team. Not for an upgrade at center's sake. Or to "finally get that big center." The way to go about putting together a top team is to make a long series of smart bets, to pick up undervalued players and to draft well. If we at some point have a genuine surplus of value at other positions, and believe we are lacking at center, we will be in a good position to make a trade.
At this point, Plekanec does the job. He is good value for his cap hit. His term is team-friendly. At his age a rapid decline would be surprising. There is still plenty of room for improvement on the wings, and tons of room for improvement on D.
Great informative post. Sorrily, each of your arguments won't do no good with that poster, he'll just pout some non-sense to refute your post so that he doesn't have to really answer... he's a hater, don't lose time with him.
Agreed, very smart coaching. I don't think Vancouver would an elite team if they were coached just power on power with everyone getting about equal zone starts. They'd be good. But not that good.
That's the model we should follow, get a guy to play the Malhotra role, put DD in the Sedin role and let Plekanec and Eller handle the rest, with Plek getting the tougher minutes out of the two.
A Malhotra isn't really viable in Montreal. Or put in in another way, Plekanec is already the Malhotra. No way you can find the wingers to support a heavy defensive role for a new center and properly support Plekanec, Eller and Desharnais.
The best way to get Pleks going with this center structure is to keep Kostitsyn or find an equivalent so the team has 5 top six level wingers (67, 72, 21, 27, 46) plus Leblanc for the top nine and build a quality 2nd pairing. Plekanec can handle the defensive zone starts plus 1st line comps if:
He has two quality wingers with him: (lets say Gionta and Bouque/Kostitsyn)
He has a good 1st pairing defense behind him (Subban-Gorges).
For this to work they need enough talent in the rest of the lineup that they don't have to cannibalize this set up. And the key to that is having a quality 2nd pairing to vacuum up the rest of the minutes that 26-76 don't play. If Markov is back that's a simple problem, pair him with Emelin and you're done. If Markov isn't back this gets a whole lot trickier.
I wonder how many of this who use the cliches like
"Have no heart", "lazy bum" or "playing like a girl" have actually achieved anything significant in their lives?
Oh wait, I know the answer
His PDO (on ice save % + shooting %) is .971. The norm is 1, last season he was 1.008. It's an aberration that corrects over time. I wouldn't worry about his +/-. His shot differential is fine, in the context of how many dzone faceoffs he takes, and his quality of competition.
I'd take an upgrade on Plekanec. I don't see a team agreeing to trade Getzlaf, Staal or Spezza for Plekanec. I also don't see any reason for their teams to do the deal for a package, unless it's so balanced in their favor that the Habs become a weaker team in the process.
If Grigorenko is the BPA at our pick according to the Habs' scouting department, go for it. If not, go for the actual BPA. Either way, we still need Plekanec until the pick develops (if ever) into a replacement or upgrade at the NHL level. In other words, for several years.
The idea is to upgrade at center to improve the team. Not for an upgrade at center's sake. Or to "finally get that big center." The way to go about putting together a top team is to make a long series of smart bets, to pick up undervalued players and to draft well. If we at some point have a genuine surplus of value at other positions, and believe we are lacking at center, we will be in a good position to make a trade.
At this point, Plekanec does the job. He is good value for his cap hit. His term is team-friendly. At his age a rapid decline would be surprising. There is still plenty of room for improvement on the wings, and tons of room for improvement on D.
A Malhotra isn't really viable in Montreal. Or put in in another way, Plekanec is already the Malhotra. No way you can find the wingers to support a heavy defensive role for a new center and properly support Plekanec, Eller and Desharnais.
The best way to get Pleks going with this center structure is to keep Kostitsyn or find an equivalent so the team has 5 top six level wingers (67, 72, 21, 27, 46) plus Leblanc for the top nine and build a quality 2nd pairing. Plekanec can handle the defensive zone starts plus 1st line comps if:
He has two quality wingers with him: (lets say Gionta and Bouque/Kostitsyn)
He has a good 1st pairing defense behind him (Subban-Gorges).
For this to work they need enough talent in the rest of the lineup that they don't have to cannibalize this set up. And the key to that is having a quality 2nd pairing to vacuum up the rest of the minutes that 26-76 don't play. If Markov is back that's a simple problem, pair him with Emelin and you're done. If Markov isn't back this gets a whole lot trickier.
I guess filling the 4th line wings would be hard with that setup. And I agree that we need to keep AK or if we don't, replace him with someone of the same level or better. But if we are to keep Plek in a big defensive role he doesn't only need quality wingers in terms of pts totals they can get, he needs tough minutes wingers. Bourque doesn't fit that bill, Gionta and AK would tough I'd prefer if he got one of Pacioretty or Cole. I'd probably go with Pacioretty, Cole is the better tough minutes player at this point in their career but I'd like to see Pacioretty, as our long term 1rst line LW, get used to hard matchups. And Cole gives a huge possession advantage to any second matchup line.
I guess filling the 4th line wings would be hard with that setup. And I agree that we need to keep AK or if we don't, replace him with someone of the same level or better. But if we are to keep Plek in a big defensive role he doesn't only need quality wingers in terms of pts totals they can get, he needs tough minutes wingers. Bourque doesn't fit that bill, Gionta and AK would tough I'd prefer if he got one of Pacioretty or Cole. I'd probably go with Pacioretty, Cole is the better tough minutes player at this point in their career but I'd like to see Pacioretty, as our long term 1rst line LW, get used to hard matchups. And Cole gives a huge possession advantage to any second matchup line.
Its hard to tell what exactly Bourque is, he's had a few good games as the hard LW, and has done it in the past in Calgary but hasn't exactly been stellar this season. He and Kostitsyn are probably about equal bets going forward. Hopefully you have 2 of them and one takes hold of the job.
The main point of having Plekanec's group take all the tough minutes is to get the Pacioretty-Cole connection to win you the game elsewhere. If you wanted to go true power v power though putting the two of them with Pleks and Subban would probably smash most of the East's top units (Bos, Pit, Phi maybe TB can match/beat 5 on 5). The issue is that it leaves the rest of the lineup fairly thin, which is where having a healthy Markov would again be a big issue.
- fans wants players who have success of the team at heart, passionate players
- player does LOVE the team, and does have a passion for the game
- fans bash said player
All this love for AK and Plek is fine if you want to have the same team for another
5 or 6 years,
Hockey is a bussiness and a sport where the old saying "what have you done for me lately" is constant. When your not winning with players like Ak and Plek, and coach's
are losing their jobs, everything the team is doing to try on turn the losing skid around
is not working, where do you draw the line??
Guys like plek and ak came up the system ,they like the city and they feel like its
home for their hockey career. Thats all good, but the team is not winning, what can you do to turn it around??
Do you trade pk, price, gorges, mac pac, guys that by all accounts are the "core of the team".
Do you sell the farm ??
Do you trade Eller, DD, LL, what can they fetch in return compared to a return
for AK and Plek
If trades are the way out of this losing ways the habs have gotten into, i feel plek
and AK are the players trade to get a good return.
Plek is a good player, but soft like butter, Habs have to answer a lot of teams in the division with more size to compete every night.
I think its time to move AK's. and the only reason i say this is because we all know
he only shows up when he wants too. Far to many times over the past three years he taken to many nights off. Who knows why he does that
All this love for AK and Plek is fine if you want to have the same team for another
5 or 6 years,
Hockey is a bussiness and a sport where the old saying "what have you done for me lately" is constant. When your not winning with players like Ak and Plek, and coach's
are losing their jobs, everything the team is doing to try on turn the losing skid around
is not working, where do you draw the line??
Guys like plek and ak came up the system ,they like the city and they feel like its
home for their hockey career. Thats all good, but the team is not winning, what can you do to turn it around??
Do you trade pk, price, gorges, mac pac, guys that by all accounts are the "core of the team".
Do you sell the farm ??
Do you trade Eller, DD, LL, what can they fetch in return compared to a return
for AK and Plek
If trades are the way out of this losing ways the habs have gotten into, i feel plek
and AK are the players trade to get a good return.
Plek is a good player, but soft like butter, Habs have to answer a lot of teams in the division with more size to compete every night.
I think its time to move AK's. and the only reason i say this is because we all know
he only shows up when he wants too. Far to many times over the past three years he taken to many nights off. Who knows why he does that
Ak is gone. But as for Plekanec and the rest of the core, the problem isn't them, but the bfact that there isn't enough of them. Because we are wasting 7M$ in cap space for a fourth liner, because we did the same for most season with Cammalleri and because Markov was injured all year (which killed our PP).
Also we are terrible in shootouts. We also had a bit of bad luck and stuff like refs stealing the games. It didn't help either that we had a few rookies on defense, who became better as the seaosn went on, but still. And of course when you start losing the team's morale get low and everything get's worse.
The team is not half as bad on paper compared to what they showed us this year, and with a good offseason, it'sa not out of question that we could be contenders next year.
It's sad that our best center doesn't get the luxury of playing with good wingers. He has to play with the Darche's and the Moen's. Meanwhile DD gets the undisputed 2 best wingers.
We need to get another centerman and DD needs to either be a 3rd line center and Lars moved to wing, or he needs to be traded.
I'd do a lot to get Dustin Brown. Although I'd rather have a legit #1 centerman....I think a top 3 C of Pleks, Brown and Eller would be great.
I don't know what it is about this franchise. Always putting guys in the worst position to succeed.
I tought this piece was pretty good. He look's pretty depressed.
I love what he tell's about how he wants to stay here for all his career. To me a player that like's the team and the jersey need's to stay.
(If it was posted somewhere, I am sorry.)
Like to see Habs acquire a faceoff artist and give Plekanec more offensive situations. He had 70 points the year we had Moore here
All this love for AK and Plek is fine if you want to have the same team for another
5 or 6 years, Hockey is a bussiness and a sport where the old saying "what have you done for me lately" is constant. When your not winning with players like Ak and Plek, and coach's
are losing their jobs, everything the team is doing to try on turn the losing skid around
is not working, where do you draw the line??
Guys like plek and ak came up the system ,they like the city and they feel like its
home for their hockey career. Thats all good, but the team is not winning, what can you do to turn it around??
Do you trade pk, price, gorges, mac pac, guys that by all accounts are the "core of the team".
Do you sell the farm ??
Do you trade Eller, DD, LL, what can they fetch in return compared to a return
for AK and Plek
If trades are the way out of this losing ways the habs have gotten into, i feel plek
and AK are the players trade to get a good return.
Plek is a good player, but soft like butter, Habs have to answer a lot of teams in the division with more size to compete every night.
I think its time to move AK's. and the only reason i say this is because we all know
he only shows up when he wants too. Far to many times over the past three years he taken to many nights off. Who knows why he does that
we're not winning with them either so, by your logix... they're gone too.
Its hard to tell what exactly Bourque is, he's had a few good games as the hard LW, and has done it in the past in Calgary but hasn't exactly been stellar this season. He and Kostitsyn are probably about equal bets going forward. Hopefully you have 2 of them and one takes hold of the job.
The main point of having Plekanec's group take all the tough minutes is to get the Pacioretty-Cole connection to win you the game elsewhere. If you wanted to go true power v power though putting the two of them with Pleks and Subban would probably smash most of the East's top units (Bos, Pit, Phi maybe TB can match/beat 5 on 5). The issue is that it leaves the rest of the lineup fairly thin, which is where having a healthy Markov would again be a big issue.
Bourque used to be a pretty good tough minutes player but that was 2+ years ago, he's fallen off since then and hasn't shown the ability to do that consistently in a long while. AK is probably the better option in such a role at this point.
And I think using the model you talk about where Patches-Cole try to win you the game while Plekanec tries do do whatever he can to keep his head above water with weaker wingers should only be an option in extreme cases like having too much injuries (wich is how that thing got started in the first place). For example, it's kind of what you said about getting a Malhotra, it wouldn't be that usefull getting a guy like that if he doesn't have the wingers to support him. We're kind of stuck for now since we don't currently have the second pairing to support this but this can be addressed in the off season. I'd probably to get a tough minutes D even if Markov is good to go.
I think a single very good tough minutes unit is much more a sign of a good team than a very good soft minutes one. The best teams have both but a soft minutes unit is easier to upgrade than a tough minutes one. The closest thing we saw to full power on power all tough minutes player unit was Eller-Plek-Cole backed up by Gorges-Subban and it smash the opposition. They completely dominated on scoring chances while starting mostly in the Dzone. And Our underlying munbers were much much better with that setup than with the Cole-Pacioretty smashing the bottom of the opposition setup. Sadly, it had to be broken due to injuries.
Going all in power on power might leave the rest of the lineup fairly weak altought I don't think it would be that bad especially not with a very strong second pairing (in fact it went fairly wel and that was without a second pairing) but we don't have to go pure power on power to get a more balanced setup. Having only one of Pacioretty or Cole on hard minutes while the other dominate possession on the second line would be good I think.
Bourque used to be a pretty good tough minutes player but that was 2+ years ago, he's fallen off since then and hasn't shown the ability to do that consistently in a long while. AK is probably the better option in such a role at this point.
And I think using the model you talk about where Patches-Cole try to win you the game while Plekanec tries do do whatever he can to keep his head above water with weaker wingers should only be an option in extreme cases like having too much injuries (wich is how that thing got started in the first place). For example, it's kind of what you said about getting a Malhotra, it wouldn't be that usefull getting a guy like that if he doesn't have the wingers to support him. We're kind of stuck for now since we don't currently have the second pairing to support this but this can be addressed in the off season. I'd probably to get a tough minutes D even if Markov is good to go.
I think a single very good tough minutes unit is much more a sign of a good team than a very good soft minutes one. The best teams have both but a soft minutes unit is easier to upgrade than a tough minutes one. The closest thing we saw to full power on power all tough minutes player unit was Eller-Plek-Cole backed up by Gorges-Subban and it smash the opposition. They completely dominated on scoring chances while starting mostly in the Dzone. And Our underlying munbers were much much better with that setup than with the Cole-Pacioretty smashing the bottom of the opposition setup. Sadly, it had to be broken due to injuries.
Going all in power on power might leave the rest of the lineup fairly weak altought I don't think it would be that bad especially not with a very strong second pairing (in fact it went fairly wel and that was without a second pairing) but we don't have to go pure power on power to get a more balanced setup. Having only one of Pacioretty or Cole on hard minutes while the other dominate possession on the second line would be good I think.
I don't know who you are, but I think you've joined Miller Time as one of the guys that just seems to be in my head, and "gets it" on a similar level. Lots of solid posts recently dude, this included.
