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The Penalty Disparity and Gulutzan's Veiled Accusation of Bias

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Old
02-06-2012, 11:15 AM
  #26
LatvianTwist
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Can you calculate that % w/o Morrow and Souray?

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02-06-2012, 12:29 PM
  #27
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I don't think so. I don't know of any place where it shows how long a team was shorthanded for a given player's penalties. You can't just go by PIMs because it doesn't factor in overlapping penalties or shortened penalties due to the other team scoring or the game ending.

Ott is just as big of an offender when it comes to minors as Morrow and Souray. They account for a combined 156 theoretical minutes shorthanded from minors.

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02-06-2012, 12:57 PM
  #28
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Ott is 6th in the league in penalty minutes. It's not like those are fighting related. He's 9th in the league for minor penalties with 25. Add to that three misconducts, and most of his penalty minutes are of the variety that hurt the Stars.

Do some of those come from biased refs? Probably. Refs are probably tired of the pest act like much of the league is.

25 minor penalties. It adds up to a minor penalty in more than half the games he plays. He was 2nd in the league last year with 39 minor penalties (in other words, he's taking more penalties this year). How many penalties does he draw? It's nowhere 25 even over a whole season.

If you start to do the math on his pest bit, it sure looks like he does more harm than good to the team.

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Old
02-06-2012, 01:19 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Ott is 6th in the league in penalty minutes. It's not like those are fighting related. He's 9th in the league for minor penalties with 25. Add to that three misconducts, and most of his penalty minutes are of the variety that hurt the Stars.

Do some of those come from biased refs? Probably. Refs are probably tired of the pest act like much of the league is.

25 minor penalties. It adds up to a minor penalty in more than half the games he plays. He was 2nd in the league last year with 39 minor penalties (in other words, he's taking more penalties this year). How many penalties does he draw? It's nowhere 25 even over a whole season.

If you start to do the math on his pest bit, it sure looks like he does more harm than good to the team.
As much as I hate to defend ott and his penalty taking... Last year he actually drew a large number of minors and matching minors. This year nt so much he isn't drawing nearly as many as he did and the penalties are becoming much more detrimental

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02-06-2012, 03:49 PM
  #30
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The sooner they get Ott off the team, the better, in my books.

He isn't helping. And pretending he's a top-six talent doesn't seem to work all that well either.

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02-07-2012, 04:34 PM
  #31
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Actually, it has evened out (in that the Stars are drawing basically as many as they take at the moment). I think over the past 2 and a half months, using your numbers, they've been on the PK about two more minutes than they've been on the PP. The disparity is all from those first 25 games.

I have my breakdown of actually how it's all worked out from DBD from the All-Star break if you want it linked. They've actually taken fewer penalties than their opponents over a span of about 26 games.

And using numbers from TSF, since i saw them there first, Ott takes 1.2 penalties/60 minutes while drawing 0.9. That's a disparity, but it's not a huge one. Players with bigger differentials include Souray (1.7 to 0.3), Morrow (1.5 to 1), Fistric (1 to 0.5), Ryder (0.8 to 0.3), Grossman (0.8 to 0.2), Robidas (0.8 to 0.1) and Petersen (0.6 to 0).

Wandell, for all the talk about how he draws calls, is even at 0.7 to 0.7. The guys with the biggest "calls for" ratio are Burish (1 to 1.4) and Fiddler (0.6 to 1.9).

All those stats are 5v5, FWIW.

ETA: Ott draws as many calls as he's taken in both 5v4 and 4v5 situations as well.

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02-07-2012, 05:33 PM
  #32
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I meant it hasn't even out as far as the season is concerned.

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02-07-2012, 05:37 PM
  #33
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Ah, true. But at least the problem has been contained. I don't think it will "even out" throughout the season because they had such problems in the first 25 games or so. This is probably as close as you're going to get.

Honestly, the things the Stars were getting called for in the first part of the season were mostly their own fault - they were way too aggressive with cross checks and unmatched roughs. Those are basically back to the NHL average now.

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02-25-2012, 10:00 AM
  #34
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here we go again with the penalty issue

*bump*

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02-25-2012, 12:38 PM
  #35
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Would really want to know where that bench-minor came yesterday.. did it come up in any of the post-game interviews?

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02-25-2012, 02:10 PM
  #36
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I haven't seen any specific reasoning for the call, just Gulutzan flatly refuting it:
Too bad (Kari Lehtonen) didn’t get his shutout. It was a really weak five-on-three call. The explanation we got was not the truth. It should have never been a five-on-three. I really wish it wasn't because he was going for back-to-back shutouts. The explanation we got for the penalty wasn’t the truth.
http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/stars...game-quotes-53

That's a strong statement. He's basically saying the ref was lying, which again isn't likely to improve our standing amongst officials. But it's hard not to stand up for yourself and your team if you believe you're in the right. Not really sure what he ought to do. This might be something for the Stars brass to work on with the league and figure out why we've got targets on our backs so often.

The raw numbers have actually improved lately in terms of the minutes spent on the PK vs. PP. The Stars are still 27th worst in the league though. They're 26th worst in total times shorthanded as well.

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02-25-2012, 03:15 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
He's basically saying the ref was lying, which again isn't likely to improve our standing amongst officials.
Not like it's been any better as of late anyways. I mean, we've had what? 4 powerplays in the previous 4 games combined? And two of them were last night!

I sit right next to the coaches/GM box (well below and to the left) and they were just as furious about the penalty to put us on the first 5 on 3 as the fans/players/Gully was. First time I've ever seen them show actual emotion.

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Old
02-25-2012, 03:32 PM
  #38
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Before the game yesterday the Stars had been called for 45 more penalties than there total number of power plays. PP/PK differential isn't looking good. The refs are missing blatant penalties against the opponents.

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Old
02-25-2012, 06:30 PM
  #39
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The bias is definitely there. Ott and Morrow have really hurt this team in the eyes of officials around the league. Probably Ribs too... But I like him

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02-26-2012, 01:53 AM
  #40
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Rookie coaches shouldn't publicly complain about officiating. Even if he blames his own team, as long as he keeps mentioning any sort of bias his team is going to keep getting silly penalties.

It's stupid, but respect is a big deal in the NHL. Gulutzan will not last if he doesn't suck it up and play ball. You don't ever see journeymen coaches calling out the refs. They all give stock, political responses for a reason.

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02-26-2012, 02:07 AM
  #41
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Agreed 100%.

Not sure what Gully's trying to accomplish by moaning about penalties all the time....his team can play some pretty undisciplined hockey, we've all seen it. Needs to keep them in line more often than he does; limit their ice time if they're in the box too often.

Once Otter finally gets dealt, things should start looking better, though.

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