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The defense for next year.

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Old
02-26-2012, 02:58 PM
  #26
DrinkFightFlyers
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I can't believe people want to trade Timonen. This is typical HF Boards logic. A bad few games in a row = the guy sucks. Next week it will be back to "Timonen should be wearing the C!"

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Old
02-26-2012, 02:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Im on board with Kimmo gone after the season. I like him as a player but looking at the bigger picture his contract hurts. Yes he is our best defensemen and on a better contract have no problem with him being here forever. All that say no what would you rather have us play #3 and #4 defensemen no, the point would be to unload his contract as well as Carles as well as Kubinas and go out and get some stud D to more friendly contracts who are as good or better. My plan for the offseason?

Let Carle and Kubina walk unless Kubina can take a big pay cut. Resign Grossman. Try to move Kimmo and possibly Coburn. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'm fairly certain that thats close to 20 million in cap space. Obviously if this is all done, Suter is an absolute must, and I would push to get Weber here as well. Kimmo + Coburn for Weber + Suters rights?

Weber-Suter
Kubina-Pronger
Meszaros-Grossman
Lilja

That Defense is HUGE and most provide some offense as well as having the ability to play extremely physical

Edit: Maybe Im out to lunch and playing too much NHL 12 but I think its possible, Kimmo has a NMC but maybe he would Waive to go back to NAS. Im not sure how much we'de have to add to make that happen though, probably a pick or 2 and a prospect
No shot of that happening. Nashville would not let both Weber and Suter go in one off season. Kimmo is old and Coburn is not better then either of the 2.

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Old
02-26-2012, 03:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I hope one of two things happen.

1. Kimmo Retires
2. Kimmo is traded


His cap hit is really hurting us, and holding us back from offering the type of money needed to get Suter.

Not only is his cap hit hurting but his play the past two weeks has been horrible. He hit a wall this time last year as well. I think its time for him to call it a career and hang them up.
so Timonen retires/traded, the Flyers dont resign Kubina or Grossman and the Flyers dont get Weber or Suter. The later being very possible. Whats the D look like?

pretty ****ing bad.

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Old
02-26-2012, 03:11 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so Timonen retires/traded, the Flyers dont resign Kubina or Grossman and the Flyers dont get Weber or Suter. The later being very possible. Whats the D look like?

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02-26-2012, 03:11 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I hope one of two things happen.

1. Kimmo Retires
2. Kimmo is traded


His cap hit is really hurting us, and holding us back from offering the type of money needed to get Suter.

Not only is his cap hit hurting but his play the past two weeks has been horrible. He hit a wall this time last year as well. I think its time for him to call it a career and hang them up.
I like Kimmo but he is playing way to many minutes. Both he and Danny are not giving us our bang for our buck!

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02-26-2012, 03:13 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so Timonen retires/traded, the Flyers dont resign Kubina or Grossman and the Flyers dont get Weber or Suter. The later being very possible. Whats the D look like?

pretty ****ing bad.
Where is your faith in Homer!!!

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Old
02-26-2012, 03:45 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by F L Y E R S View Post
No shot of that happening. Nashville would not let both Weber and Suter go in one off season. Kimmo is old and Coburn is not better then either of the 2.
Right and there are probably 3 or 4 guys who you could consider as upgrades. Coburn and Timonen can help them on the back end immediately lessening the impact of them both leaving. If Suter walks at best Weber is on that team for 1 more year then he walks. They get a defensemen in the prime of his career signed to a good contract and their former captain Im not assuming that just those 2 get it done but that with picks and maybe a prospect or two is a lot better then letting them just walk.

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Old
02-26-2012, 04:24 PM
  #33
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Right now, if I'm Holmgren, the only two defensemen coming back next year are Grossman and Timonen. Depending on what Kubina is asking for, he can be the ideal third pairing D. If they let Carle walk, they can bring in someone like Suter. As for Meszaros and Coburn, well, there was word that the Winnipeg Jets really like Meszaros and have talked about a package around Mark Stuart for him.

With regards to Coburn, the Flyers could really start a bidding war for his services if they put him on the block. I know for a fact that there have been several teams from the Western Conference who are interested and that there have been concrete offers for him. I know for a fact that Phoenix and Los Angeles have put forward trade offers and that Anaheim was also interested in his services.

If I'm the Flyers, it's very easy to rebuild the defense. I'd look at something like this for next season:

Timonen - Grossman
Suter - Stuart
Kubina - trade acquisition
MAB/Gus as the number 7

That's a pretty good looking five and certainly would be quite a defense to play against. It's also not a bank breaker, which is what the Flyers are looking at. As for the trade acquisition, if the Flyers could get someone like a Luca Sbisa or a Chris Summers or a Matt Greene type, that'd be quite an overhaul of the D and would actually be more balanced.

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Old
02-26-2012, 04:41 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
so Timonen retires/traded, the Flyers dont resign Kubina or Grossman and the Flyers dont get Weber or Suter. The later being very possible. Whats the D look like?

pretty ****ing bad.
Reminds me of another corner we were backed into not long ago. The result ended up being overpay Randy Jones and give up a 1st for Steve Eminger...

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02-26-2012, 04:45 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by XS Chop View Post
Reminds me of another corner we were backed into not long ago. The result ended up being overpay Randy Jones and give up a 1st for Steve Eminger...
Holmgren is amazing.

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Old
02-26-2012, 07:11 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by XS Chop View Post
Reminds me of another corner we were backed into not long ago. The result ended up being overpay Randy Jones and give up a 1st for Steve Eminger...
This is why I'd prefer to sign the 6 we have now for next year. or at least 5 and maybe not Kubina.

If we let Carle walk, and fail to get Suter, we're going to have to trade, e.g. JVR to get a puck moving Dman to replace Carle.

If Timonen retired too, we'd be pooched. You can't just throw Gus in and give him 23 mins/game vs. top lines....

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Old
02-26-2012, 07:24 PM
  #37
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To all these proposals not including Lilja:

He's a 35+ contract. If he's on the roster, he's going to be the 7th d-man.

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Old
02-26-2012, 07:33 PM
  #38
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Timonen-Coburn
Suter-Grossman
Meszaros-Bourdon
Lilja

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Old
02-26-2012, 07:54 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Right now, if I'm Holmgren, the only two defensemen coming back next year are Grossman and Timonen. Depending on what Kubina is asking for, he can be the ideal third pairing D. If they let Carle walk, they can bring in someone like Suter. As for Meszaros and Coburn, well, there was word that the Winnipeg Jets really like Meszaros and have talked about a package around Mark Stuart for him.

With regards to Coburn, the Flyers could really start a bidding war for his services if they put him on the block. I know for a fact that there have been several teams from the Western Conference who are interested and that there have been concrete offers for him. I know for a fact that Phoenix and Los Angeles have put forward trade offers and that Anaheim was also interested in his services.

If I'm the Flyers, it's very easy to rebuild the defense. I'd look at something like this for next season:

Timonen - Grossman
Suter - Stuart
Kubina - trade acquisition
MAB/Gus as the number 7

That's a pretty good looking five and certainly would be quite a defense to play against. It's also not a bank breaker, which is what the Flyers are looking at. As for the trade acquisition, if the Flyers could get someone like a Luca Sbisa or a Chris Summers or a Matt Greene type, that'd be quite an overhaul of the D and would actually be more balanced.
I understand where you coming from but out biggest problem is in our net. Hopefully with new CBA we can get contract amnesty and get rid of this guy.

I am tempted to have something like that:
Timonen Grossman
Suter Coburn
Meszaros Bourdon/Gus

I think we will let Kubina walk. I am not sold on him yet. No idea what his contract demands are. Looks like he wants to be here. If we get rid of Bryzgalov we have enough money to sign Kubina and 2.5M goalie.

Maybe even trade for Schneider? Or sign him to 3 years 3.5m offer sheet?

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Old
02-26-2012, 11:13 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Right and there are probably 3 or 4 guys who you could consider as upgrades. Coburn and Timonen can help them on the back end immediately lessening the impact of them both leaving. If Suter walks at best Weber is on that team for 1 more year then he walks. They get a defensemen in the prime of his career signed to a good contract and their former captain Im not assuming that just those 2 get it done but that with picks and maybe a prospect or two is a lot better then letting them just walk.
If we're acting like Kimmo is garbage (which seems to be the theme of the day), then why would Nashville give up one of their two franchise defensemen for him, and the other for another guy we think is garbage? To get both of them?...Say goodbye to JvR, either Schenn/Couturier, Coburn, Simmonds, and two 1sts. At least.

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Old
02-26-2012, 11:34 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Where is your faith in Homer!!!
I think too many people are banking on Weber and/or Suter being available on July 1. I really dont know how he reacts if Grossman and Kubina walk away. I still dont trust Holmgren not to give Matt Carle a stupid contract.
in the end I think Timonen comes back for the final year of his deal. I think Grossman gets resigned. Not to sure about Kubina yet. If he wants more then a 2 year deal let him walk.

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02-26-2012, 11:37 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I think too many people are banking on Weber and/or Suter being available on July 1. I really dont know how he reacts if Grossman and Kubina walk away. I still dont trust Holmgren not to give Matt Carle a stupid contract.
in the end I think Timonen comes back for the final year of his deal. I think Grossman gets resigned. Not to sure about Kubina yet. If he wants more then a 2 year deal let him walk.
2 years @ 2M per for Kubina? And Grossman for 3 years @ 2.5M per?

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Old
02-27-2012, 12:01 AM
  #43
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Don't know if this is possible but for me the blueline would be this

Suter(LH)-Wideman(RH)
Coburn(LH)-Grossman(LH)
Mez(LH)-Kubina(RH)

Re-resign Grossman and Kubina
Trade for Suter's rights if he wants to leave Nash sign him for something like 8yrs, 52 mil front loaded (6.5 cap hit)
Trade Kimmo for futures to DET or somewhere we won't have to play him that often he'd have to waive first and this assumes Suter signs if not flip Suters rights back to someelse and keep Kimo.
Trade the rights of Carle to WSH for the rights to Wideman


This blueline needs to keep/get some righties, Wideman is the best one hitting the market this offseason unless Washington re-signs him or you want to pay through the nose for Weber.

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02-27-2012, 12:05 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by litflyersfan View Post
Don't know if this is possible but for me the blueline would be this

Suter(LH)-Wideman(RH)
Coburn(LH)-Grossman(LH)
Mez(LH)-Kubina(RH)

Re-resign Grossman and Kubina
Trade for Suter's rights if he wants to leave Nash sign him for something like 8yrs, 52 mil front loaded (6.5 cap hit)
Trade Kimmo for futures to DET or somewhere we won't have to play him that often he'd have to waive first and this assumes Suter signs if not flip Suters rights back to someelse and keep Kimo.
Trade the rights of Carle to WSH for the rights to Wideman


This blueline needs to keep/get some righties, Wideman is the best one hitting the market this offseason unless Washington re-signs him or you want to pay through the nose for Weber.
Timonen has a NMC and I don't think there ANY indications he should go anywhere or that he wants to go elsewhere. Also, I do NOT trust Wideman on D.

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Old
02-27-2012, 12:13 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
2 years @ 2M per for Kubina? And Grossman for 3 years @ 2.5M per?
I really doubt Kubina takes that much of a discount without testing the market. i think if Holmgren offers that to Grossman he signs that deal. 2.5/3 years is a deal i can live with.

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Old
02-27-2012, 07:23 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by litflyersfan View Post
Don't know if this is possible but for me the blueline would be this

Suter(LH)-Wideman(RH)
Coburn(LH)-Grossman(LH)
Mez(LH)-Kubina(RH)

Re-resign Grossman and Kubina
Trade for Suter's rights if he wants to leave Nash sign him for something like 8yrs, 52 mil front loaded (6.5 cap hit)
Trade Kimmo for futures to DET or somewhere we won't have to play him that often he'd have to waive first and this assumes Suter signs if not flip Suters rights back to someelse and keep Kimo.
Trade the rights of Carle to WSH for the rights to Wideman


This blueline needs to keep/get some righties, Wideman is the best one hitting the market this offseason unless Washington re-signs him or you want to pay through the nose for Weber.
Wideman? O hell no to Wideman. Wideman is worse than Carle. Garbage!

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02-27-2012, 08:40 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Suter that's all I want.

Suter-Suter
Suter-Suter
Suter-Weber
I don't think this lineup is cap-compliant....


I'd love to see

Suter - Mesz
Kimmo - Coburn
Grossman - Gus
MAB

I think this would be one of the top 10 in the league.

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Old
02-28-2012, 12:51 AM
  #48
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1. Sign Suter (~$6.50 for 7 years)
2. Re-sign Grossman (~$3.00 for 4 years)
3. Re-sign Carle (~$4.00 for 2 years)
4. Keep Timonen, Coburn, Meszaros, and, unfortunately, Lilja
5. Allow Timonen to handle second pairing minutes, while Suter and Carle take top pairing duty. Timonen will still play on the top PK unit and can play on the top PP as well, but we need to limit his minutes next season. You could swap Carle and Grossman on the pairings below, but this is my idea. I know many of you dislike Carle, but I think he's a steady defenseman who provides both offense and defense. He's prone to his mistakes, but Suter could handle that. He'd be like Pronger's younger replacement.

Suter - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Grossman - Meszaros
Lilja

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Old
02-28-2012, 12:56 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
1. Sign Suter (~$6.50 for 7 years)
2. Re-sign Grossman (~$3.00 for 4 years)
3. Re-sign Carle (~$4.00 for 2 years)
4. Keep Timonen, Coburn, Meszaros, and, unfortunately, Lilja
5. Allow Timonen to handle second pairing minutes, while Suter and Carle take top pairing duty. Timonen will still play on the top PK unit and can play on the top PP as well, but we need to limit his minutes next season. You could swap Carle and Grossman on the pairings below, but this is my idea. I know many of you dislike Carle, but I think he's a steady defenseman who provides both offense and defense. He's prone to his mistakes, but Suter could handle that. He'd be like Pronger's younger replacement.

Suter - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Grossman - Meszaros
Lilja
Where does that $13.5m come from?

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Old
02-28-2012, 12:57 AM
  #50
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Did anyone else see Randy Millers tweet about what Homer said? It was referring to if a certain defense man were to become available(Suter), Homer, without naming names, would be able to make trades to make room for a star dman in the summer.

Found it

https://twitter.com/#!/RandyJMiller/...83562319757312

Quote:
Without naming names, #Flyers Homer suggested he'd be able to make trades in July to free cap space to sign star D (such as Suter)
I believe if Suter hits the open market, he will be a Flyer, and Mez will be the one leaving.

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