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#61|Feb. 25, 2012|Flyers at Flames| (Part 2)

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02-26-2012, 11:03 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
You always gotta hang til the end with us. its so satisfying to go through those crazy come from behind wins. be nice to jump out and have a lead but these games are why i've always watched hockey. now if we were called the lightning i probably would've been in bed and that game was on at 1 pm
I would have fallen asleep if we were up 10-0. Can't hang with these west coast trips. The only reason I was able to watch the Edmonton game the other night was because I was at a bar. If I was at home, I would have zonked out at around the same time. Haha.

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02-26-2012, 11:55 AM
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I think he was rolling his eyes because he let Matt Stajan walk all the way into the slot and tee up a shot at the hashmarks. He could not believe he and Kimmo backed in like a couple of scared peewee Dmen.
How dare they let Bryz see a shot from a forward who had 2 goals in 40 games.

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02-26-2012, 01:31 PM
  #78
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I think he was rolling his eyes because he let Matt Stajan walk all the way into the slot and tee up a shot at the hashmarks. He could not believe he and Kimmo backed in like a couple of scared peewee Dmen.
aren't they taught to stand up @ the blue line ?
especially if you are not confident in front of your goalie.

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02-26-2012, 02:59 PM
  #79
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Just finished watching the DVR'd game. We won in the shootout????? WOWWWWW!!!

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02-26-2012, 03:06 PM
  #80
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How dare they let Bryz see a shot from a forward who had 2 goals in 40 games.
Mez was trying to help boost Bryz's SV%.

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02-26-2012, 03:44 PM
  #81
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How dare they let Bryz see a shot from a forward who had 2 goals in 40 games.
Flyers don't want any opponent to tee one up from the slot. ever.

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02-26-2012, 03:57 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
How dare they let Bryz see a shot from a forward who had 2 goals in 40 games.
You're joking, right?

It's unacceptable to let any NHL player step over the blue line and into the slot unimpeded.

If you can't stop a guy who has two goals in 40 games from stepping into the slot like that, are you going to be able to stop a guy who gets 15 goals in 40 games? What about 20 goals in 40 games? They were exposed against a guy who can't produce at all this season, isn't that pathetic in itself?

The defense has a problem with closing the gap, and an even bigger problem with completely giving up the blue line. Opposing players enter the zone at full speed and step around the defense. What's even worse is the Flyers completely **** up positioning and defensive decisions. They constantly misplay odd-man rushes, often allowing the shot to come from the slot.

Stajan's having a bad season. It doesn't mean he doesn't know how to put the puck in the net. He's in the NHL for a reason.

That goal said a lot more about our defense than it does about Stajan or Bryz, but hey, let's just keep looking at the net. I mean, that's where the puck ends up, right?

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02-26-2012, 04:33 PM
  #83
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Pardon me, but what's this eye rolling business I keep hearing about? I don't remember seeing it in the game.

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02-26-2012, 04:40 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
You're joking, right?

It's unacceptable to let any NHL player step over the blue line and into the slot unimpeded.

If you can't stop a guy who has two goals in 40 games from stepping into the slot like that, are you going to be able to stop a guy who gets 15 goals in 40 games? What about 20 goals in 40 games? They were exposed against a guy who can't produce at all this season, isn't that pathetic in itself?

The defense has a problem with closing the gap, and an even bigger problem with completely giving up the blue line. Opposing players enter the zone at full speed and step around the defense. What's even worse is the Flyers completely **** up positioning and defensive decisions. They constantly misplay odd-man rushes, often allowing the shot to come from the slot.

Stajan's having a bad season. It doesn't mean he doesn't know how to put the puck in the net. He's in the NHL for a reason.

That goal said a lot more about our defense than it does about Stajan or Bryz, but hey, let's just keep looking at the net. I mean, that's where the puck ends up, right?
Standing players up at the blue line isn't going to happen 100% of the time, especially when there is separation and it's a transition play. It just isn't. Doesn't matter whose fault it is.

Calgary only had 19 shots on goal through 3 periods, so the defensemen had to be doing something right.

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02-26-2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
aren't they taught to stand up @ the blue line ?
especially if you are not confident in front of your goalie.
Yeah, for a team that distrusts its goaltender, they sure do allow a lot of uncontested shots from the slot.

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02-26-2012, 04:52 PM
  #86
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Stupid defense, giving up 18 shots thru 3 periods. How dare they.

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02-26-2012, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
Just finished watching the DVR'd game. We won in the shootout????? WOWWWWW!!!
Wooooooooooooo!!

Fun game!

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02-26-2012, 05:11 PM
  #88
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Standing players up at the blue line isn't going to happen 100% of the time, especially when there is separation and it's a transition play. It just isn't. Doesn't matter whose fault it is.

Calgary only had 19 shots on goal through 3 periods, so the defensemen had to be doing something right.
You understand that "closing the gap" means closing the separation between the forward entering the zone and the defenseman backing up into his own zone, right?

The problems go hand-in-hand. They don't close the gap consistently, which leads to them relinquishing the blue line.

Your argument/excuse makes absolutely no sense. Just because something can't happen 100% of time doesn't mean it can't be done with regularity. The fact that they're allowing Calgary, with an abysmal offense, to get clean looks from the slot is very telling, and unfortunately, indicative of what better teams will be doing to the Flyers.

Just to point out the futility of that logic: No goaltender will ever stop 100% of the shots directed at him. It's just not possible. It doesn't matter who it is. Now, are Bryz' faults excusable?

And I never said the defense didn't do their job last night, but they're also playing a team with a terrible offense, and they spent a lot of time on the Power Play. I'd say both those things should be taken into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Dink the Clown View Post
Stupid defense, giving up 18 shots thru 3 periods. How dare they.
Calgary is 28th in Shots a game, and 26th in Goals a game. The Flyers had 6 Power Plays.

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02-26-2012, 05:13 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
You're joking, right?

It's unacceptable to let any NHL player step over the blue line and into the slot unimpeded.

If you can't stop a guy who has two goals in 40 games from stepping into the slot like that, are you going to be able to stop a guy who gets 15 goals in 40 games? What about 20 goals in 40 games? They were exposed against a guy who can't produce at all this season, isn't that pathetic in itself?

The defense has a problem with closing the gap, and an even bigger problem with completely giving up the blue line. Opposing players enter the zone at full speed and step around the defense. What's even worse is the Flyers completely **** up positioning and defensive decisions. They constantly misplay odd-man rushes, often allowing the shot to come from the slot.

Stajan's having a bad season. It doesn't mean he doesn't know how to put the puck in the net. He's in the NHL for a reason.

That goal said a lot more about our defense than it does about Stajan or Bryz, but hey, let's just keep looking at the net. I mean, that's where the puck ends up, right?
If you look at that play really closely you would find it was a 3 on 2 situation. If anything it says a lot more about our forwards playing defense. I have no problem with the D playing that situation the way they did. If they step up too soon, CGY passes right thru it. It was very clear the D took away the pass and Bryz had the shooter and miss it because he didn't get his pad down in his butterfly that he uses on EVERY shot taken on net.

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02-26-2012, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Icedog2735 View Post
If you look at that play really closely you would find it was a 3 on 2 situation. If anything it says a lot more about our forwards playing defense. I have no problem with the D playing that situation the way they did. If they step up too soon, CGY passes right thru it. It was very clear the D took away the pass and Bryz had the shooter and miss it because he didn't get his pad down in his butterfly that he uses on EVERY shot taken on net.
You have no problem with Meszaros backing up into his own goaltender on a 3-on-2? I really like the guy, but that was awful.

Their goal in that situation is to force the pass, not give up the slot. You never give up the slot defensively. They should have forced the pass, effectively turning the play into either a 2-on-1 or a 1-on-1 on the outside, allowing the goaltender to play the angle on the shot.

The worst case scenario under that is the forward gets to shoot at half the net, and seeing as how there's a whole goalie (or whatever is left of Bryz at this point), those are good odds. The best case scenario is that the forward attempts to make the pass and it gets stopped by a defenseman or backchecking forward.

The worse case scenario when you have two defensemen backing up towards the net is that the forward skates unimpeded to the slot and blasts away. That's exactly what happened. The two forwards spread out Kimmo and Meszaros, and the puck carrier skated in. That's a set play, Calgary played that perfectly, the Flyers played into it perfectly.

Their defensive positioning was awful on that play, but yeah, with no forwards getting back with urgency that play was probably going to end in a goal. I'll give you that. Schenn as the center was caught, and Voracek didn't get back early enough. I have no idea where JvR was, he logically should have been the first forward back.


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02-26-2012, 05:42 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
You understand that "closing the gap" means closing the separation between the forward entering the zone and the defenseman backing up into his own zone, right?

The problems go hand-in-hand. They don't close the gap consistently, which leads to them relinquishing the blue line.

Your argument/excuse makes absolutely no sense. Just because something can't happen 100% of time doesn't mean it can't be done with regularity. The fact that they're allowing Calgary, with an abysmal offense, to get clean looks from the slot is very telling, and unfortunately, indicative of what better teams will be doing to the Flyers.

Just to point out the futility of that logic: No goaltender will ever stop 100% of the shots directed at him. It's just not possible. It doesn't matter who it is. Now, are Bryz' faults excusable?

And I never said the defense didn't do their job last night, but they're also playing a team with a terrible offense, and they spent a lot of time on the Power Play. I'd say both those things should be taken into consideration.
It was high percentage save, barely a scoring chance. If Bryz makes a fairly routine save, this isn't a discussion. I'd expect anyone wearing pads to make that save.

It was a 3-on-2, another man was coming. Timonen does step up ready to maybe make a play on the body, but he has to account for the pass. If he takes the body and gives up a pass, it's becoming a 2-on-1 and a better scoring chance.

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02-26-2012, 05:49 PM
  #92
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but he has to account for the pass. If he takes the body and gives up a pass, it's becoming a 2-on-1 and a better scoring chance.
Quote:
“The first goal was a knuckler and the second, the guy teed it up from the slot,” Reese said.
the flyers dont want that to happen.
every pass you force is another chance for the Flames to mess up, have it intercepted ... surrendering an uncontested shot from dead center, that low, is a high percentage opportunity.

the only time i want to see the pass cut off is on a clear-cut 2 on 1.

by over-playing the pass, you dictate to the other team the the player with the puck MUST shoot [no pass option].

the goalie knows he is shooting, and has 1 less thing to worry about

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02-26-2012, 05:51 PM
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It was high percentage save, barely a scoring chance. If Bryz makes a fairly routine save, this isn't a discussion. I'd expect anyone wearing pads to make that save.

It was a 3-on-2, another man was coming. Timonen does step up ready to maybe make a play on the body, but he has to account for the pass. If he takes the body and gives up a pass, it's becoming a 2-on-1 and a better scoring chance.
How is an open shot from the slot on a 3-on-2 a "high percentage save"? Say what you will about Bryz not making that save, but that's a really, really good scoring opportunity, and a non-scorer was able to score.

Timonen wasn't the one who played that poorly. He could have made an outstanding play to seal the puck carrier and right winger, but that's expecting a hell of a lot.

Kimmo played the 3-on-2 well: the defensemen should essentially create two separate 2-on-1s, effectively allowing them to cover the pass and partially block the shooting lane. Kimmo does that, whereas Meszaros skates backwards with his stick out. That's why Stajan went towards the left winger: that side was completely open for either a pass or shot.

Defense is largely based on positioning, and positioning is heavily affected by angles. Meszaros skated with the rush, took an odd angle back, and overcompensated for the pass. That's why Stajan coasted into the slot. Bryz didn't make the save, but he didn't hand them the goal.


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02-26-2012, 05:54 PM
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nice to see point shots go in, guys left alone and the puck going in & 2 pucks deflecting off: Hartnell's pants / CAL D man & going in .... those goals happen in the NHL

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02-26-2012, 06:09 PM
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How is an open shot from the slot on a 3-on-2 a "high percentage save"? Say what you will about Bryz not making that save, but that's a really, really good scoring opportunity, and a non-scorer was able to score.

Timonen wasn't the one who played that poorly. He could have made an outstanding play to seal the puck carrier and right winger, but that's expecting a hell of a lot.

Kimmo played the 3-on-2 well: the defensemen should essentially create two separate 2-on-1s, effectively allowing them to cover the pass and partially block the shooting lane. Kimmo does that, whereas Meszaros skates backwards with his stick out. That's why Stajan went towards the left winger: that side was completely open for either a pass or shot.

Defense is largely based on positioning, and positioning is heavily affected by angles. Meszaros skated with the rush, took an odd angle back, and overcompensated for the pass. That's why Stajan coasted into the slot. Bryz didn't make the save, but he didn't hand them the goal.
If the goaltender can see the shot, he's supposed to stop it. Sometimes the shooter is better than the goaltender, but I don't think this is one of those times.

We've heard too much about Bryz not making saves because he couldn't see the shots (a la the media claiming that Bryz threw the team under the bus for not boxing out). Here's one where he knows exactly where the puck is, and Stajan only took the shot because both passing lanes were covered.


Also: do we know that Meszaros was rolling his eyes at Bryz? Did anyone ever ask him? Or are we just assuming that the media wasn't pushing the anti-Bryz agenda?

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02-26-2012, 06:32 PM
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If the goaltender can see the shot, he's supposed to stop it. Sometimes the shooter is better than the goaltender, but I don't think this is one of those times.
=
We've heard too much about Bryz not making saves because he couldn't see the shots (a la the media claiming that Bryz threw the team under the bus for not boxing out). Here's one where he knows exactly where the puck is, and Stajan only took the shot because both passing lanes were covered.


Also: do we know that Meszaros was rolling his eyes at Bryz? Did anyone ever ask him? Or are we just assuming that the media wasn't pushing the anti-Bryz agenda?
That's ********. It was a clean look from the slot, guy, those aren't easy saves. The rule you're applying is really only mentioned from shots from the point. This was ten feet closer. There's a considerable amount of reaction time lost given that distance. This was the type of scoring chance that brings people to their feet, whether it goes in or not. It was a good shot. It went in. Sometimes the puck goes in and it's not Bryz' fault, deal with it.

You seen to have some kind of premeditating bias with giving Bryz a break, hence your second paragraph, so I'm not going to argue with you. Each goal should be reviewed on its own unless it's a trend. The trend here is poor defensive positioning, address that first.


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02-26-2012, 06:34 PM
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If the goaltender can see the shot, he's supposed to stop it.
that's as easy as saying "If a player has an empty net with 3 seconds left in OT, he should score."

but what you said is not 'set in stone'. in the history of the NHL there has yet to be a screened Penalty Shot.

I've seen Chara, Souray, Pronger & Byfuglien blast pucks un-screened into the net.

generally, if a goalie touches the puck, he should stop it. blasts, change-ups, location, deflections, timing & skips off the ice all can be factors on 'seen' shots
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post


Also: do we know that Meszaros was rolling his eyes at Bryz? Did anyone ever ask him? Or are we just assuming that the media wasn't pushing the anti-Bryz agenda?
agreed. it makes for sexier story if they assume that was @ Bryz

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02-26-2012, 06:46 PM
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How is an open shot from the slot on a 3-on-2 a "high percentage save"? Say what you will about Bryz not making that save, but that's a really, really good scoring opportunity, and a non-scorer was able to score.
We'll agree to disagree on this. It all goes back to the fact that I expect our highly payed NHL caliber starting goaltender to make the save on a 41 mph shot from the hash marks/top of the circle. Should have been an easy stick save, with the exception that Bryz apparently cannot make a save without dropping to his knees and when he does his stick ends up pointing out at the shooter because his butterfly mechanics have been terrible.

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02-26-2012, 06:50 PM
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that's as easy as saying "If a player has an empty net with 3 seconds left in OT, he should score."

but what you said is not 'set in stone'. in the history of the NHL there has yet to be a screened Penalty Shot.

I've seen Chara, Souray, Pronger & Byfuglien blast pucks un-screened into the net.

generally, if a goalie touches the puck, he should stop it. blasts, change-ups, location, deflections, timing & skips off the ice all can be factors on 'seen' shots


agreed. it makes for sexier story if they assume that was @ Bryz
I'm all about Bryzgalov but that second goal sucked. the first was a shot from the blue line top corner, so come on! penalty shot was nice. Its tanguay. That's what he does. third goal coulda been had too but i can't blame him totally cause of the retarded turnover. so one bad goal. and he kicked ass in the shootout? screw meszaros if he did roll his eyes, he's looks more this year like he did in tampa not the guy that was here last year. bottom line is I'm likin the fact that laviolette is startin bryz every game and not pulling him. thats how you establish confidence in your guys not only for him but it sends a message that he's the one so play for each other. if we could only score first imagine the damage that might ensue.

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02-26-2012, 06:58 PM
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We'll agree to disagree on this. It all goes back to the fact that I expect our highly payed NHL caliber starting goaltender to make the save on a 41 mph shot from the hash marks/top of the circle. Should have been an easy stick save, with the exception that Bryz apparently cannot make a save without dropping to his knees and when he does his stick ends up pointing out at the shooter because his butterfly mechanics have been terrible.
Your reply to me was about defensive positioning, wasn't it? Did you just abandon that opinion or what?

You people hate Bryzgalov. That's great. He's a good goaltender in a bad situation. He's on a new team that plays bad defense. Bob is also struggling. He was here last year in front of a solid defense and looked good. He looks bad this year because they're playing poor defense. This is the way it's going to be for anyone the Flyers bring in until they tighten up their defense.

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