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Nash Rumours Part IX: Nash Svidaniya; End of the road

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Old
02-27-2012, 09:16 AM
  #151
True Blue
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Krieder better be the real deal and sign here, because we have a prime opportunity to strike for the cup this year. I realize the ideal that most have is that we should be set up as a dynasty, but you never know what next year can bring, especially in sports.
The only thing that Nash guarantees is that it will put the team into cap hell come 2013.

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02-27-2012, 09:18 AM
  #152
Kel Varnsen
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Anyone else think the LA Kings should serve as a cautionary tale for us?

Think about it. Here's a team, mostly built though the draft, recently starts to think it's close to something and so goes out and brings in all these new pieces. They look stacked on paper offensively, and yet they've been DEAD LAST in goal scoring. Thoughts?

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02-27-2012, 09:30 AM
  #153
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The only thing that Nash guarantees is that it will put the team into cap hell come 2013.
there is risk both ways. Signing/not signing Nash.

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02-27-2012, 09:43 AM
  #154
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there is risk both ways. Signing/not signing Nash.
There is, but reallly hamstringing your cap space is a sure way to get into trouble. Long term negative trouble.

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02-27-2012, 09:47 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Anyone else think the LA Kings should serve as a cautionary tale for us?

Think about it. Here's a team, mostly built though the draft, recently starts to think it's close to something and so goes out and brings in all these new pieces. They look stacked on paper offensively, and yet they've been DEAD LAST in goal scoring. Thoughts?
Because you know for a fact that if they didn't make those moves they wouldn't be last in offense?

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02-27-2012, 09:53 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Anyone else think the LA Kings should serve as a cautionary tale for us?

Think about it. Here's a team, mostly built though the draft, recently starts to think it's close to something and so goes out and brings in all these new pieces. They look stacked on paper offensively, and yet they've been DEAD LAST in goal scoring. Thoughts?
If you want to analyze the Kings from a narrow-minded perspective, then sure, they're a cautionary tale for us.

The Kings play in a much tougher conference. They didn't have nearly enough offensive talent on the wings (and still might not; Jeff Carter could be the answer potentially). They fired Terry Murray, an incredibly conservative defensive-minded coach, and replaced him with Darryl Sutter . . . an incredibly conservative, defensive-minded coach.

If the Rangers played in the Western Conference, they'd probably be battling for a 4th-5th playoff seed, which coincidentally, is probably what they'd be doing in the Eastern Conference, as well, if Sidney Crosby was healthy.

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02-27-2012, 09:59 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
If you want to analyze the Kings from a narrow-minded perspective, then sure, they're a cautionary tale for us.

The Kings play in a much tougher conference. They didn't have nearly enough offensive talent on the wings (and still might not; Jeff Carter could be the answer potentially). They fired Terry Murray, an incredibly conservative defensive-minded coach, and replaced him with Darryl Sutter . . . an incredibly conservative, defensive-minded coach.

If the Rangers played in the Western Conference, they'd probably be battling for a 4th-5th playoff seed, which coincidentally, is probably what they'd be doing in the Eastern Conference, as well, if Sidney Crosby was healthy.
Is that a joke? Dude, we play in the most competitive division in the league...

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02-27-2012, 10:02 AM
  #158
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Is that a joke? Dude, we play in the most competitive division in the league...
No, no we don't. There is no way this division, particularly without Sidney Crosby, is as tough as the Central Division. The Red Wings are the best team in the league. The Blues and Predators are both better than either the Flyers or Penguins (without Crosby), and all three of those teams, as well as the Blackhawks, are better than the Devils.

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02-27-2012, 10:02 AM
  #159
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Is that a joke? Dude, we play in the most competitive division in the league...
That is a fair argument. All but 1 of the teams in the Atlantic have at least 74 points. Not a single team in the Pacific has 74 points.

Never mind, the discussion was regarding conferences, not divisions.

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02-27-2012, 10:03 AM
  #160
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Is that a joke? Dude, we play in the most competitive division in the league...
NYR Sting is right... If you're not in 1st in your division you're 4th-5th.. If Crosby was healthy, heck even if the Flyers were completely healthy this year that may have been the case..

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02-27-2012, 10:37 AM
  #161
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from what i'm reading it seems clear that Columbus' mo is:
you want our Nash now, give us your future Nash (Krieder)

They're trading the face of thier franchise, they want the "next" face of thier franchise in this trade.

Krieder better be the real deal and sign here, because we have a prime opportunity to strike for the cup this year. I realize the ideal that most have is that we should be set up as a dynasty, but you never know what next year can bring, especially in sports.
Krieder wasn't the only piece. The burden of this deal/no deal does not fall on him. This doesn't impact expectations of him. In our bubble here, where prospects reign supreme, Krieder is building a buzz and expectations. In the outside world, other fans/gms/sports enthusiasts are looking at Dubinsky, MDZ and McD as the pieces of this trade.

I said it before, Columbus is following Boston's blueprint for trading Thornton: Cap relief, 3 regulars for one roster player, rebuild through draft and free agency.

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02-27-2012, 10:41 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
No, no we don't. There is no way this division, particularly without Sidney Crosby, is as tough as the Central Division. The Red Wings are the best team in the league. The Blues and Predators are both better than either the Flyers or Penguins (without Crosby), and all three of those teams, as well as the Blackhawks, are better than the Devils.
First of all, the Red Wings have played three more games than us but only amassed 1 more point, so I think so far it's more fair to say we've been the better team.

And they have the Columbus last place by a mile Blue Jackets in their division. While the isles aren't the class of the NHL, they're not the absolute dregs of the dregs like the CBJ.

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02-27-2012, 10:52 AM
  #163
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First of all, the Red Wings have played three more games than us but only amassed 1 more point, so I think so far it's more fair to say we've been the better team.

And they have the Columbus last place by a mile Blue Jackets in their division. While the isles aren't the class of the NHL, they're not the absolute dregs of the dregs like the CBJ.
Well, the Red Wings play in the toughest division in the league, in the tougher conference, and have to deal with terrible travel. I don't think it is fair at all to say the Rangers are better than the Red Wings. At best, they're on par, and in my opinion, they simply aren't, because their offense isn't up to snuff. I think the Red Wings or the Canucks are going to win the Stanley Cup, personally, and I don't think there is an Eastern Conference team short of a fully healthy Penguins that can beat either of them.

The fact that the Blue Jackets are horrible doesn't change that the rest of the division is incredibly good. That division has 3 of the top 8 teams in the league, and 4 of the top 10. The Rangers play in the same conference as the Southeast division, easily the worst division in the league.

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02-27-2012, 10:56 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
No, no we don't. There is no way this division, particularly without Sidney Crosby, is as tough as the Central Division. The Red Wings are the best team in the league. The Blues and Predators are both better than either the Flyers or Penguins (without Crosby), and all three of those teams, as well as the Blackhawks, are better than the Devils.
The Red Wings are not the best team in the league. Their defense and goal tending is middle of the road. Vancouver is a better team for one. The Blues and the Preds are the same as we are with us having the edge in net. You overrate the Hawks and the Bruins may be the best team in the league.

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02-27-2012, 11:05 AM
  #165
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The Red Wings are not the best team in the league. Their defense and goal tending is middle of the road. Vancouver is a better team for one. The Blues and the Preds are the same as we are with us having the edge in net. You overrate the Hawks and the Bruins may be the best team in the league.
Agree to disagree.

Top teams: Detroit, Vancouver

A notch below: Rangers, Predators, Bruins, Blues, Penguins (move them up a level with a healthy Crosby)

Good, but not good enough: Blackhawks, Sharks, Flyers, Devils, Coyotes

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02-27-2012, 11:09 AM
  #166
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Middle of the road teams don't win 23+ in a row. I don't care if it's 23 games in general, at home, against a particular organization, on thursdays... whatever. Detroit is for real.

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02-27-2012, 11:13 AM
  #167
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Also, Kel conveniently forgets to consider that the Wing's best player has been injured for the last 3 games, a period during which the Red Wings got only 1 point and their record 23 game home winning streak came to an end. Datsyuk is only going to be out for a couple of weeks.

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02-27-2012, 11:14 AM
  #168
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Middle of the road teams don't win 23+ in a row. I don't care if it's 23 games in general, at home, against a particular organization, on thursdays... whatever. Detroit is for real.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call you on Thursdays. That could definitely just be a fluke.


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02-27-2012, 11:14 AM
  #169
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Ironically, Neil Smith was just on SportsNet lamenting about how "Players like Nash don't come on the market very often" and that "You should do what you can to get him" despite the fact he said he would not be worth it for the Rangers. Guess he'd be worth it for the Leafs though.

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02-27-2012, 11:15 AM
  #170
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02-27-2012, 11:16 AM
  #171
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Agree to disagree.

Top teams: Detroit, Vancouver

A notch below: Rangers, Predators, Bruins, Blues, Penguins (move them up a level with a healthy Crosby)

Good, but not good enough: Blackhawks, Sharks, Flyers, Devils, Coyotes
I would say that the two best teams are the ones that have top notch players in all facets (i.e., Boston and Vancouver). We are not good enough offensively and Detroit is a notch below defensively and in net. I would move the Bruins up and the Wings down and I think we would beat Detroit in a 7 game series (if we have home ice). The Penguins are the real wild card in all of this. Sometimes they look like world beaters and other times; not so much. Malkin is just ridiculous right now.

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02-27-2012, 11:20 AM
  #172
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The idea that the West is more competitive and better than the East is one of the biggest myths in hockey and pretty much always has been.

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02-27-2012, 11:22 AM
  #173
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Ironically, Neil Smith was just on SportsNet lamenting about how "Players like Nash don't come on the market very often" and that "You should do what you can to get him" despite the fact he said he would not be worth it for the Rangers. Guess he'd be worth it for the Leafs though.
Short of seeing him traded to the Flyers, nothing would make me happier than seeing the Leafs trade away parts of their "vaunted" youth for an anchor like Nash.

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I would say that the two best teams are the ones that have top notch players in all facets (i.e., Boston and Vancouver). We are not good enough offensively and Detroit is a notch below defensively and in net. I would move the Bruins up and the Wings down and I think we would beat Detroit in a 7 game series (if we have home ice). The Penguins are the real wild card in all of this. Sometimes they look like world beaters and other times; not so much. Malkin is just ridiculous right now.
Using your own criteria, the Bruins aren't as good as you say. Their forwards are very good, but I'll take the Nucks, Wings and Pens groups over the Bruins forward core, and one of their most important forwards is out with a serious injury (Horton). They're without an integral role player in Peverly, as well.

You underrate Jimmy Howard, as well as the Red Wings defense.

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02-27-2012, 11:24 AM
  #174
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They leave Jeff Carter?

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02-27-2012, 11:25 AM
  #175
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Agree to disagree.

Top teams: Detroit, Vancouver

A notch below: Rangers, Predators, Bruins, Blues, Penguins (move them up a level with a healthy Crosby)

Good, but not good enough: Blackhawks, Sharks, Flyers, Devils, Coyotes
You keep talking about weak conference this and weak conference that, but Vancouver plays in a division as bad as the southeast and are still point % behind us. We play in a much tougher division. The Northwest outside of Vancouver are the Southeast west. That said, I still say the Penguins even w/o Crosby probably beat us in the playoffs.

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