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Mikael Granlund remains top prospect for Minnesota Wild

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Old
02-24-2012, 08:07 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxlockbox View Post
With all respect, I pull the homer card here. He hasn't proven anything else, but that he can dominate what I assume is Canada's second highest junior competition. He has still long ways to prove he can make it into NHL in my eyes.
Not at all. The problem is that HF's rating system is designed one way, but used another. Lucia's 7.0D, by HF's posted standards, means that the best he could ever be is an average second line forward (Ryan Malone is one of the examples) but he's highly unlikely to reach that potential and could fall as far as minor league forward. A 7.5D simply means that he could one day become an above average 2nd liner, or a 1st/2nd line tweener, but it's unlikely.

As I alluded to, the problem is that it appears only 3-4 of HF's writers actually stick to the rating system. Specifically, I get annoyed at the lack of 9s. Here's the description for a 9:

Quote:
9. Elite Talent - possesses the potential for greatness, a perennial All-Star throughout his career.

Defense: Nicklas Lidstrom, Zdeno Chara, Chris Pronger
Forward: Ilya Kovalchuk, Joe Thornton, Eric Staal
Goaltender: Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, Henrik Lundqvist
Now, every draft there is a perennial All-Star. For a quick, very much not all-inclusive run down:

2008: Stamkos, Doughty, possibly Karlsson
2007: P. Kane, possibly Couture
2006: Toews, Backstrom, Kessel, Giroux
2005: Crosby, Price, Kopitar, M. Staal
2004: Ovechkin, Malkin, Green
2003: Fleury, E. Staal...I'm not going to list all because 2003 was ridiculous
2002: Nash, Ward
2001: Kovalchuk

The point is, if every year there are multiple players who end up fulfilling the 9.0 description, then every year there should be multiple draftees who are assigned a 9.0 rating. Furthermore, with the letter grades indicating that many prospects fail to reach that full potential, for every player who will become a 9.0, there should be multiple players assigned 9.0 ratings that simply fail to live up to it. A player like Granlund clearly has the potential to be a perennial all-star. Maybe he won't live up to that potential. Maybe he'll end up being a 2nd liner for his career. But there's a rating for that, and it's called 9.0C. But with so many writers not assigning ratings in this way, it's hard to rate Granlund 9.0C when Kuznetsov (an arguably close, or equal prospect) is rated 8.0C by the Capitals writer. There was a minor tizzy when Granlund was given 8.0B (technically the highest of these three), Kuznetsov 8.0C, and Tarasenko 8.5C.

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02-24-2012, 09:07 AM
  #27
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Any one of Larsson, Coyle, Granlund, Phillips, or Brodin would have been our #1 prospect before the 2010 draft. I wouldn't worry about the rankings too much.

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02-24-2012, 09:10 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Any one of Larsson, Coyle, Granlund, Phillips, or Brodin would have been our #1 prospect before the 2010 draft. I wouldn't worry about the rankings too much.
Took me 3 guesses

Edit: and it looks like you removed the rest of the post...

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02-24-2012, 09:15 AM
  #29
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Yeah I thought this was the prospect thread. Go put it in that one

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02-24-2012, 09:30 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
The point is, if every year there are multiple players who end up fulfilling the 9.0 description, then every year there should be multiple draftees who are assigned a 9.0 rating. Furthermore, with the letter grades indicating that many prospects fail to reach that full potential, for every player who will become a 9.0, there should be multiple players assigned 9.0 ratings that simply fail to live up to it.
This is a great point that rarely gets made. Combine that with some players' ratings being upgraded or downgraded by a letter or number from update to update, then all you got is a somewhat educated ranking system that is based on current prodction rather than potential production. Take with a grain of salt.

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02-24-2012, 09:33 AM
  #31
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how did larsson fall in the rankings? He is on pace for 40points in SEL, last year he had 8 points!

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02-24-2012, 09:35 AM
  #32
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Personally, I would have gone:

1 Granlund
2 Brodin
3 Larsson
4 Coyle
5 Phillips

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02-24-2012, 09:40 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Personally, I would have gone:

1 Granlund
2 Brodin
3 Larsson
4 Coyle
5 Phillips
Is the Scandella omission because he falls, because Phillips advances over him, or because you didn't think Scandella should be ranked with the "haven't played in NHL/AHL prospects?"

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02-24-2012, 09:46 AM
  #34
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I think the other players have passed him. I'd have him at 6 personally. He's starting to lose that "upside" IMO. Using the HF rankings, he went from a 7.5C to a 7B IMO.

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02-24-2012, 10:15 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Not at all. The problem is that HF's rating system is designed one way, but used another. Lucia's 7.0D, by HF's posted standards, means that the best he could ever be is an average second line forward (Ryan Malone is one of the examples) but he's highly unlikely to reach that potential and could fall as far as minor league forward. A 7.5D simply means that he could one day become an above average 2nd liner, or a 1st/2nd line tweener, but it's unlikely.
Oh I see, should have thought it through. I'll pull the homer card back to my sleeve.

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02-24-2012, 12:03 PM
  #36
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I personally have the top 5 like this:

1. Granlund
2. Zucker
3. Brodin
4. Larsson
5. Coyle

I view Zucker more highly than most being that I think he's really the only true shooter/scorer in the lot. And I place a higher emphasis on that than I think most do. Combine that with his other skill sets and character attributes and I think you have the makings of a very strong prospect. While I think Brodin will be a mainstay on the blue line, not sure he has the pure upside that some do in the prospect pool. But given his skating, frame, and decision making; he should be high up on any list. I view Coyle and Larsson to be similar type of players and I could go either way with their order. I think Larsson has the higher upside whereas Coyle has the more projectable frame. Both have a very high floor in my opinion but I like Larsson just a tad more based on what I've seen of them.

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02-25-2012, 04:07 AM
  #37
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anyone know when the earliest we can get granlund here? is there a posibility of signing him at the end of this season and getting him in a few games? im not sure when ifk season is done

also heres my top five

1. Granlund
2. Coyle
3. Zucker
4. Brodin
5. Larsson

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02-25-2012, 04:40 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sioux210 View Post
anyone know when the earliest we can get granlund here? is there a posibility of signing him at the end of this season and getting him in a few games? im not sure when ifk season is done

also heres my top five

1. Granlund
2. Coyle
3. Zucker
4. Brodin
5. Larsson
No but he will come next season.

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Old
02-25-2012, 08:26 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sioux210 View Post
anyone know when the earliest we can get granlund here? is there a posibility of signing him at the end of this season and getting him in a few games? im not sure when ifk season is done
Granlund will participate World Champs after his SM-liiga season ends, so no way, and probably wouldn't have been otherwise either.

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Old
02-26-2012, 02:03 AM
  #40
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I'm still a little baffled why Almond and Falk is over a guy like Haula. Almond and Falk pretty much have hit their peak and they aren't going to be much more than reserve forward or bottom pairing defenseman. At least Haula is projected to be a top 6 forward and has much more potential.

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02-27-2012, 07:56 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I'm still a little baffled why Almond and Falk is over a guy like Haula. Almond and Falk pretty much have hit their peak and they aren't going to be much more than reserve forward or bottom pairing defenseman. At least Haula is projected to be a top 6 forward and has much more potential.
Falk is an NHL player. He might not be a good one, and he's certainly not going to make any leaguewide top prospect lists, but he will have an NHL career. Haula could eventually be a servicable top 6 player, but he could very easily never set foot on NHL ice. He's still a very long shot to be a pro hockey player.

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02-27-2012, 08:14 AM
  #42
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Falk has the potential to be a really good player. He's a very good skater and a decent puck-mover for his size, and he's playing more physical than he has in the past.

But he has the same problems that every young Dman has. He needs to pick his spots better when he goes physical, he needs better gap control, and he needs to break-up NHL passes better.

He could develop into a #4 guy with time. At the very least he's a #7 guy.

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Old
02-27-2012, 09:02 AM
  #43
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It has to do with HF's numeric ratings.

Falk's ceiling is a 5/6 defenseman in the NHL, which he's already at. They have him at 6.5C but I'd say 6.0B. That's either 5.2 or 5.4 net rating.

Haula's ceiling is a top six forward, but he may or may not become one. And he doesn't have the skillset of a traditional grinder, so he's more top six or bust. They have him at 7.0D which I think is accurate. That's a net 4.2 rating.

Either way, 5.2 or 5.4 is bigger than 4.2, therefore Falk is higher in the ratings.

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