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This is worth volunteering for...?

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02-27-2012, 10:56 AM
  #1
Niagaradad
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This is worth volunteering for...?

My hockey story, it's long so only read when you have time to digest.

Here's a scenario for you what do you think about this?

Our team's head coach was away for one of our playoff games so I filled in as head coach. House league team. At 26 seconds to go our team got scored on. Two of our top three players were on the ice so I elected not to turn my line over. I took my time out and left my goalie in. I was going to pull the goalie as soon as we took the faceoff and put out an attacker. We did so and scored the tying goal with 8 seconds to go.

The director comes over and said "the other team is protesting your goal, BLANK (my best player) was lined up as a forward instead of on defense for the faceoff."

I'm thinking they've got to be kidding. I head off to my dressing room. One of the boys was all excited because he thought he scored the winning goal. We awarded him our "game puck" star of the game. We shared those around all year and he was one of two kids who hadn't received one. We give them out for sportsmanship, assists, hard work as well as goal scoring. Essentially if it was only goal scoring no more than four or five kids on the team would ever get one.

I go down to the office to meet with the director and other team coach. As I'm there I note on the game sheet that another player has been credited with the goal. I'm thinking in all the confusion that perhaps the ref has marked down a number similar to another jersey number, or perhaps the one player shot the puck and the other tipped it in.

Speaking with the other coach and director the coach is accusing me of cheating because I've had a player line-up in an incorrect spot. I said cheating would be taking a time out and then putting my best five players on the ice. Those words of course will come back to haunt me.

The remainder of our playoffs are played out, we hear nothing more on the matter. I had relayed the info to our head coach. She thought nothing more of it since coaches ***** all the time. On the final day of our round robin, with tie-breakers in effect this other team is beaten out of a trip to the semi-finals by us.

So NOW their protest is upheld because we obviously cheated to get a tie against them. And now the coach is claiming that I said I put my best five on the ice.

The only thing is we rank all of our players. The goal is scored by one of two players either the fifth or eighth best on our team, assisted by the top ranked player and assisted by our fourteenth ranked player. On the game sheet the fifth ranked player is the one credited with the goal. In either scenario though it is hard for me to comprehend that I put my best five players on the ice, when the worst player on our team (and indeed perhaps the division) has an assist on the goal.

So now I blunder and suggest that perhaps it was the eigth seeded player that scored. I admit I did not see our top player line up as a forward (though there is no written rule against it) and I was obscured by the sightline of the goal that was fired in from the hash marks of the right hand side of the right circle.

Either way I haven't lined up my top five players on the ice (in fact our team had never before even been hinted at playing unfairly).

So now with the original scenario thrown out (since a player can line up anywhere and it has been proven with the 14th best player getting an assist I couldn't have put my best five out there) I'm now hit with the fact that I have now admitted to cheating by having only two forwards on the ice and three defencemen (if indeed the eighth best player scored the goal.) and after review it is determined that not only must we replay the game against this team, but the conduct intentional or not warrants a suspension for me for the remainder of the playoffs (so tie-breaker game and if we advance, semi-finals and finals).

OF COURSE there are no written rules stating where players line up for a face-off nor the composition of the players that are on the ice only that players get fair and equal ice time.

So at worse we've put out two forwards and three defencemen in their proper order instead of three forwards and two defencemen in proper order.

And somehow this is justice...


Last edited by Niagaradad: 02-27-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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Old
02-27-2012, 11:16 AM
  #2
madmutter
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I don't understand the issue. You aren't allowed to put whoever you want on the ice in the last seconds of a playoff game?
What age level is this team? What league?

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02-27-2012, 11:38 AM
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Niagaradad
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House league level. Atom team 9/10 yrs old. Prefer to keep league name out of it.

The issue is we've somehow broken the rules and "cheated" to gain the tie with this team. We now have to replay that team in order to determine who advances to the semi-finals.

The cheating aspect was originally our best player (who was already on the ice) lined up as a winger instead of defence.

It then got changed (since that wouldn't stand up) that if the eighth best player scored the goal then we must have had three defencemen and two forwards on the ice for the faceoff and that is somehow cheating.

Under either scenario, no rule exists in writing preventing that only that our players receive FAIR ice time.

But somehow since the other team feels we've somehow cheated, we're now forced to replay our game with the other team and I face a potential three game suspension.

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02-27-2012, 11:43 AM
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Hugh Madbrough
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your league is run by **********

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02-27-2012, 11:53 AM
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Gino 14
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Have the league show you the infractions and the rules that support them. If they are justified in what they are saying they will be able to back it up. Live by the rules.

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02-27-2012, 12:07 PM
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This isn't football, there's no such thing as illegal formations or ineligible players... you're well within your rights to put any players on the ice. I've played D and wing many times in the same game.

Your league is headed up by a bunch of hacks.

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02-27-2012, 01:13 PM
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tarheelhockey
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I still don't understand the issue here. Is it against the rules to put 3 defensemen on the ice?

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02-27-2012, 02:04 PM
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adaminnj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Madbrough View Post
your league is run by **********


It's arfen House League. I thought my rep hockey woes where bad. My son has a son of the guy who runs the league on an opposing team and we don't get this kind of stupid drama. 11/12 year olds I hope you find a new league for next year. Coaches are hard to come by and good coaches are even harder to find.

I hope your kids work over the league

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02-27-2012, 03:33 PM
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mythicalberserker
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Not that the people in charge have to, or would look at it, but did any parents record the game? (That was my first thought...)

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02-27-2012, 04:27 PM
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The whole situation sounds retarded, but it's youth sports, so nothing surprises me.

We've had the top PeeWee team in our inhouse league for two seasons and it is funny what some of the coaches will do to try to beat us. Like play their 5 best players for most of the third period while most of the rest of the team sits. We just keep rolling everyone, at least when I'm running the forwards. It's house league; it's about ice time and fun, not about the Ws and Ls.

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02-28-2012, 11:05 AM
  #11
Canadiens1958
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Fair Ice Time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niagaradad View Post
House league level. Atom team 9/10 yrs old. Prefer to keep league name out of it.

The issue is we've somehow broken the rules and "cheated" to gain the tie with this team. We now have to replay that team in order to determine who advances to the semi-finals.

The cheating aspect was originally our best player (who was already on the ice) lined up as a winger instead of defence.

It then got changed (since that wouldn't stand up) that if the eighth best player scored the goal then we must have had three defencemen and two forwards on the ice for the faceoff and that is somehow cheating.

Under either scenario, no rule exists in writing preventing that only that our players receive FAIR ice time.

But somehow since the other team feels we've somehow cheated, we're now forced to replay our game with the other team and I face a potential three game suspension.
How is FAIR ice time regulated?

Some associations have clearly defined segments - buzzer.Every three minutes if running time - MAHG here in Quebec. You cannot change players during these segments. Teams usually play with two units of five. There are procedures in place for rotations if teams are short players. Basic idea is to preclude stacking of talent during the last segment

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02-28-2012, 04:00 PM
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The Lollipop King
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What does it matter who lines up where. I played on teams where the D-Man took faceoffs because he was better, and then the center and D-Man just switched back one the played started.

what every league your in is retarded

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02-28-2012, 07:00 PM
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Gino 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lollipop King View Post

what every league your in is retarded
If you really feel a need to stress that point, you probably should check your spelling

"what ever league you're in is ........

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02-28-2012, 07:38 PM
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Seanconn*
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atom house???? organized hockey is still ****ing INSANE.

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02-29-2012, 10:41 AM
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First of all at this age, players change positions constantly between F and D, so I guess I don't get why the league is being so strict about this.

My son plays in a AAA level league in New England, and even though on our roster sheet the kids are listed as forward or defense, there's no rule to indicate you can't have them switch positions, even during the course of a game.

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03-01-2012, 01:00 PM
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Niagaradad
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I know it is stupid.

Sadly the kids lost the make-up game so instead of playing in semi-finals they're out.

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03-01-2012, 01:01 PM
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Niagaradad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Madbrough View Post
your league is run by **********
I'm one of the ********** and have been trying to make things better when not coaching.

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03-01-2012, 01:46 PM
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hockeymass
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Originally Posted by Niagaradad View Post
I know it is stupid.

Sadly the kids lost the make-up game so instead of playing in semi-finals they're out.
That is just horses***. Seriously, the people running that mess should be ASHAMED of themselves.

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03-03-2012, 10:04 AM
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Just curious what everyone would suggest a reasonable enforcement to fair playing time policies could be? Obviously this is not the right approach, but here is the opposite scenario.

The league my son plays in has no enforcement, although they do have the policy. We have situations in game where the head coach will play 2 centers, 4 defenceman and 8 wingers for a game. The centers and D who are either strong players or coaches favourites will then get additional pp or pk time (like putting both centers out at the same time) resulting in some kids playing around 60% of the game while some wingers (who had their shift skipped in favour of double shifting) play around 20%.

This is Novice (7&8 year olds). It is AA but that should make very little difference as our association tiers our teams and there is no option of competitive vs house. Remember that under this system the kid getting a fifth of the game was good enough to beat out most of the kids in town for a spot on the team but had no input as to which team they would play on, they would theoretically be the strongest player on our B team.

There is no mechanism to complain other than fill out a coach evaluation that will be reviewed when the executive chooses the head coaches for next season. Complaining to the coach will get you nowhere.

I don't expect the coach to use a stopwatch and spreadsheet to track ice time but make even lines and roll them! You want to shorten the bench? Last 5 minutes of critical games, maybe.

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03-05-2012, 09:29 PM
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You did nothing wrong, and honestly although cheap, icing your best 5 is legal. No rule against it. And with a bye on the line you do what you have too.

You can line anywhere on the faceoff circle as long as your onside and no player steps into the circle, except your center.

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03-07-2012, 11:48 AM
  #21
Niagaradad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLBarmada View Post
You did nothing wrong, and honestly although cheap, icing your best 5 is legal. No rule against it.
Thing is I didn't ice my best five, i had my 9th and 14th (of 14) best players on the ice out of five of them.

Still waiting over 10 days after asking them exactly what we did to warrant the replay and suspension.

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03-07-2012, 12:15 PM
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Doshell Propivo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niagaradad View Post
Thing is I didn't ice my best five, i had my 9th and 14th (of 14) best players on the ice out of five of them.

Still waiting over 10 days after asking them exactly what we did to warrant the replay and suspension.
You need to live by this code: WWMMMD

What would Mad Mike Milbury do. The answer is always obvious. Good luck.

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03-07-2012, 02:58 PM
  #23
Niagaradad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doshell Propivo View Post
You need to live by this code: WWMMMD

What would Mad Mike Milbury do. The answer is always obvious. Good luck.
i need to trade my top two players for a bag of pucks? Or do I need to become a tv commentator and argue both sides of an argument depending on what day it is and who is on which side?

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03-07-2012, 03:02 PM
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Doshell Propivo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niagaradad View Post
i need to trade my top two players for a bag of pucks? Or do I need to become a tv commentator and argue both sides of an argument depending on what day it is and who is on which side?
You need to beat up the opposing coach with his own shoe and choke one of the kids while yelling obscenities at him.

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03-07-2012, 03:51 PM
  #25
BLBarmada
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niagaradad View Post
Thing is I didn't ice my best five, i had my 9th and 14th (of 14) best players on the ice out of five of them.

Still waiting over 10 days after asking them exactly what we did to warrant the replay and suspension.

I know you didn't, but you said that the other coach is claiming you did, so say hey I didn't, even of I did, it's not illegal, I didnt have too many men, my center was lined up inside the circle, after that my players can line up where they want so long as they stay onside, and there's no rule about having to ice a specific number of fowards or D. Hell you can go with 5 D or 5 fowards.

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