You could burn through hundreds of 2nd round picks before you find anyone even close to the next Kiprusoff.
That's exactly why you may not want to keep all that 2nd round picks and instead take the risk to go after someone like Bishop. Especially when Bishop has already proven he is at least not a bust, proven that he is one of the best in the AHL, and has a good size advantage. He was unexpectedly stuck behind Brian Elliot for that backup role.
BTW, Elliot was given up by OTT & Col, and he just had one of those 25/26 yrs old goalie breakout this yr.
All i am saying is that, it's not bad asset management to take a shot at Bishop with a 2nd round pick when he's signed up for next year. Now, i'm just hoping Tambellini starts looking at other viable options like Harding, Montoya & Lindbeck in the offseason.
I never said those players were a sure thing. I said that 2nd round picks in the hands of our scouting staff have returned us very good prospects in the past. Obviously the players drafted last year fall into the "unsure" category. Do you have an issue with Lander or Petry? Yeah, that's my point.
So not a sure thing..must be a crapshoot..As in, you have no idea for years what you get.
The whole point was I wanted ST to trade the Ana pick for a shot at a young tender that has some pretty good numbers in hopes he will turn out better than what we have or what we could pick up with the 2nd otherwise. I think it's a mistake not to try but he didn't and it's too late now. Not the end of the world and not the first time we haven't taken a chance.
I really don't believe Tambo is trying and will let the cards fall where they may and hope things work out.
That may be a fine strategy. I'll guess we'll find out.
Don't want to debate any more as it's time to eat...
So not a sure thing..must be a crapshoot..As in, you have no idea for years what you get.
The whole point was I wanted ST to trade the Ana pick for a shot at a young tender that has some pretty good numbers in hopes he will turn out better than what we have or what we could pick up with the 2nd otherwise. I think it's a mistake not to try but he didn't and it's too late now. Not the end of the world and not the first time we haven't taken a chance.
I really don't believe Tambo is trying and will let the cards fall where they may and hope things work out.
That may be a fine strategy. I'll guess we'll find out.
Don't want to debate any more as it's time to eat...
lol fair enough. I can see where you're coming from with your argument, but to assume that same offer was on the table for the Oilers is nothing more than speculation. Maybe St. Louis didn't want to trade Bishop to another Western conference team in case he pans out. I don't know. But I just don't see how posters can rip on the GM without having any idea if the Oilers were ever in the running.
That's exactly why you may not want to keep all that 2nd round picks and instead take the risk to go after someone like Bishop. Especially when Bishop has already proven he is at least not a bust, proven that he is one of the best in the AHL, and has a good size advantage. He was unexpectedly stuck behind Brian Elliot for that backup role.
BTW, Elliot was given up by OTT & Col, and he just had one of those 25/26 yrs old goalie breakout this yr.
All i am saying is that, it's not bad asset management to take a shot at Bishop with a 2nd round pick when he's signed up for next year. Now, i'm just hoping Tambellini starts looking at other viable options like Harding, Montoya & Lindbeck in the offseason.
I meant you could trade hundreds of 2nd round picks for 25/26 year old goaltenders before you find anyone close to the next Kiprusoff.
Would Bishop have signed that extension with us though? He's guaranteed the back-up spot in Ottawa next season. If Khabibulin isn't moved, which I think is realistic, Bishop would be fighting Dubnyk for a spot.
We aren't in the right spot to add a player like Bishop and when a team in dire need of goaltending, Tampa Bay, refused to give up one of their four 2nd rounders for Bishop, that's all you need to know about the price.
It still absolutely boggles my mind that there are people that are completely convinced that an NHL trade is as simple as pushing the "Complete Trade?" button on NHL12.
what it isn't??????????????
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I meant you could trade hundreds of 2nd round picks for 25/26 year old goaltenders before you find anyone close to the next Kiprusoff.
Would Bishop have signed that extension with us though? He's guaranteed the back-up spot in Ottawa next season. If Khabibulin isn't moved, which I think is realistic, Bishop would be fighting Dubnyk for a spot.
We aren't in the right spot to add a player like Bishop and when a team in dire need of goaltending, Tampa Bay, refused to give up one of their four 2nd rounders for Bishop, that's all you need to know about the price.
Yup, we do need to move Khabibulin, but it can be done.
How did you know Tampa Bay refused to give up one of their four 2nd rounders for Bishop?
As pointed out by another poster, Murray was very closed to Armstrong and they like to trade with each other. I am not sure if that's the case here with this deal, but unless you are actually Stevie Y, i don't think you can say Tampa did not make an offer. Or are you Stevie Y?
Again, Bishop may or may not be the guy. I am just saying a team taking a chance using a 2nd to acquire a guy like that is not bad management.
If you have a guy on your radar that you think may have a shot at being a star and you are already stacked with picks or young prospects, but you don't go for it, then that's bad asset management.
Yup, we do need to move Khabibulin, but it can be done.
How did you know Tampa Bay refused to give up one of their four 2nd rounders for Bishop?
As pointed out by another poster, Murray was very closed to Armstrong and they like to trade with each other. I am not sure if that's the case here with this deal, but unless you are actually Stevie Y, i don't think you can say Tampa did not make an offer. Or are you Stevie Y?
The Tampa beat writer reported it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Dandyman
Again, Bishop may or may not be the guy. I am just saying a team taking a chance using a 2nd to acquire a guy like that is not bad management.
If you have a guy on your radar that you think may have a shot at being a star and you are already stacked with picks or young prospects, but you don't go for it, then that's bad asset management.
Bishop would be the fourth best goalie in our organization.
He's the second best in Ottawa's
That's absolutely brutal asset management if we traded a 2nd round pick for him.
Bishop would be the fourth best goalie in our organization.
He's the second best in Ottawa's
That's absolutely brutal asset management if we traded a 2nd round pick for him.
Bishop may not be Stevie Y's guy and that's perfectly fine.
Bishop is 4th best in our organization? We have to disagree. I think he would be 2nd or 3rd.
Ottawa also got Robin Lehner, who won last yr Calder cup MVP, and he also won the game today for Ottawa. So painting a picture of Ottawa being weak in goaltending depth is not quite accurate, imo.
In fact, I think Ottawa has about the same goaltending stength as us yesterday before adding Bishop. Anderson and Lehner going forward definitely are as good or better than Khabibulin and Dubnyk. Adding Bishop, they have great goaltending depth and much better potential than we do.
You can argue Ben Bishop is a bad goalie, but you can't argue that this is bad management when a team believe a certain player has star potential that can help them a bit now and may be big time down the road.
Boston gave up a 2nd for a 3rd/4th liner for Chris Kelly last yr, although he is not a big part, but he contributed to the championship. That's not bad asset management. LA saved up a lot of pick and prospect and was able to give us a boat load for Penner. And Penner gave them nothing. Then there was Kiprusoff costing only a 2nd round.
I think you did not quite mean that it's bad asset management, you are talking about bad scouting, because you don't believe Bishop can play, which is an opinion that i can totally appreciate and respect.
Last edited by AK Dandyman: 02-26-2012 at 08:18 PM.
Bishop may not be Stevie Y's guy and that's perfectly fine.
Bishop is 4th best in our organization? We have to disagree. I think he would be 2nd or 3rd.
Ottawa also got Robin Lehner, who won last yr Calder cup MVP, and he also won the game today for Ottawa. So painting a picture of Ottawa being weak in goaltending depth is not quite accurate, imo.
In fact, I think Ottawa has about the same goaltending stength as us yesterday before adding Bishop. Anderson and Lehner going forward definitely are as good or better than Khabibulin and Dubnyk. Adding Bishop, they have great goaltending depth and much better potential than we do.
You can argue Ben Bishop is a bad goalie, but you can't argue that this is bad management when a team believe a certain player has star potential that can help them a bit now and may be big time down the road.
Boston gave up a 2nd for a 3rd/4th liner for Chris Kelly last yr, although he is not a big part, but he contributed to the championship. That's not bad asset management. LA saved up a lot of pick and prospect and was able to give us a boat load for Penner. And Penner gave them nothing. Then there was Kiprusoff costing only a 2nd round.
I think you did not quite mean that it's bad asset management, you are talking about bad scouting, because you don't believe Bishop can play, which is an opinion that i can totally understand and respect.
2nd or 3rd? He's definitely not better than Khabibulin or Dubnyk and we have the two best goalies in the AHL. If LeNeveu was signed, I would probably put Bishop at #5. For some reason it seems like there's this notion that Bishop's play will automatically translate to the NHL unlike Danis, LeNeveu or other career AHLers.
Lehner is probably a top5 goalie prospect, but he has some major consistency issues he needs to work out in the AHL. He easily has the most potential out of any goalie in either organization, but he isn't a starting NHL goalie yet. Beyond Anderson, Auld and Lehner, they literally don't have a single goalie in the organization. I wouldn't exactly call that strong depth.
Where is this "star potential" statement coming from? If St. Louis thought Bishop was a future star, they wouldn't have signed the worst goalie in the NHL to back-up Halak or end up trading Bishop for a 2nd round pick. I would say it's safe to assume our management didn't think he had star potential either.
As for the Kelly comment. That's exactly my point. Trading a 2nd round pick for a proven NHLer isn't bad asset management. Trading a 2nd round pick for a redundant question mark is.
2nd or 3rd? He's definitely not better than Khabibulin or Dubnyk and we have the two best goalies in the AHL. If LeNeveu was signed, I would probably put Bishop at #5. For some reason it seems like there's this notion that Bishop's play will automatically translate to the NHL unlike Danis, LeNeveu or other career AHLers.
Lehner is probably a top5 goalie prospect, but he has some major consistency issues he needs to work out in the AHL. He easily has the most potential out of any goalie in either organization, but he isn't a starting NHL goalie yet. Beyond Anderson, Auld and Lehner, they literally don't have a single goalie in the organization. I wouldn't exactly call that strong depth.
Where is this "star potential" statement coming from? If St. Louis thought Bishop was a future star, they wouldn't have signed the worst goalie in the NHL to back-up Halak or end up trading Bishop for a 2nd round pick. I would say it's safe to assume our management didn't think he had star potential either.
As for the Kelly comment. That's exactly my point. Trading a 2nd round pick for a proven NHLer isn't bad asset management. Trading a 2nd round pick for a redundant question mark is.
No doubt, the jury is still out on Bishop. I am not as sure as you are that Bishop is not as good as DD, Khabby, Danis, and Neveau. Imo, he is at least 3rd on that list, not today, but going forward to next year and after.
What we can agree is that we know you think Bishop is terrible. And I respect that.
No doubt, the jury is still out on Bishop. I am not as sure as you are that Bishop is not as good as DD, Khabby, Danis, and Neveau. Imo, he is at least 3rd on that list, not today, but going forward to next year and after.
What we can agree is that we know you think Bishop is terrible. And I respect that.
Terrible? No.
Worth a 2nd round pick? Not for this organization.
Something Tambo should be getting flack for? Definitely not.
Our 2nd round pick is a lot closer to the top 30 than Ottowa's is, making our 2012 2nd rounder more valuable than theirs. Ours being 32-34th overall to their 47-50th overall. Can't give up on Dubnyk already has he even played 60 games in the NHL yet?
Bishop sucks. Danis is better. Gerber was/is as well. The Oilers can EASILY pick up decent goalies in the UFA market without giving up assets for a player that's more proven and better than Bishop.
Good "non-move" by Tortellini in not throwing away a 2nd round pick (basically a 1st because it's a very early 2nd) on him.
