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Grading Rangers "Trade Deadline" Moves (or lack there of)

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Old
02-27-2012, 03:57 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMantis24 View Post
Sather was scheduled to speak with the media at 4:45, pushed back to 5:30.



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Making sure that Dustin Brown paperwork finally gets processed

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02-27-2012, 03:58 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Actually, I think Kel is the only person I've seen not acknowledging the need for an upgrade.

Personally, I didn't see the need for a top-6 upgrade, mostly because I thought it would cost too much. I wanted to see an offensive upgrade to our third line, but it turns out that none of those players were even available today.

Lundqvist is an important reason for this team's success, but chemistry is the biggest reason for the team being *as successful* as it's been this season. Without it, the team is not greater than the sum of it's parts and sits somewhere between 4 and 6, more likely at the 6. You should stop downplaying it.
Add Mullchicken to that, too.

I'm not downplaying chemistry. Obviously when Girardi and McD were playing like a top pair in the league it had to do with chemistry.

But you just can't pretend Dubinsky's been an important player this year because of "chemistry." Or that trading pieces will ruin chemistry in a locker room as tight as this one- since if that happened we didn't have that much chemistry to begin with, did we?

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02-27-2012, 04:01 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
No, the *****ing for things that didn't happen makes you a debbie downer. And if you want to be objective, how about realize we're doing just fine with the team we have right now. Fine to first in the East, most ppg in the entire NHL. Objectively take solace in that debbie.
Continue to ignore the product on the ice. Go ahead.

Didn't realize we were 5 year old's here, where discussion can be ignored for calling me a debbie downer.

Never realized I ever said we were a bad team, either. But I guess it's okay to shape peoples arguments to fit the ridiculousness of what you say.

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02-27-2012, 04:01 PM
  #79
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This may sound stupid, but I think we are only going to get more dangerous, offensively, next year, and more sound, defensively.

Why mess with any of that?? Go to war with what we have.

Next year we add Kreider.

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02-27-2012, 04:04 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Add Mullchicken to that, too.

I'm not downplaying chemistry. Obviously when Girardi and McD were playing like a top pair in the league it had to do with chemistry.

But you just can't pretend Dubinsky's been an important player this year because of "chemistry." Or that trading pieces will ruin chemistry in a locker room as tight as this one- since if that happened we didn't have that much chemistry to begin with, did we?
I'm not pretending anything. Dubinsky's an important player because of all the other things he does, not limited to, but including his off-ice presence. Is he playing like a player worth a $4.2m contract? No, but that isn't the point. What is the point is that, right now, this team has enough depth to have Dubinsky underachieving without it hurting the success of the team. He's playing a role. It's not the role that he should be playing, but it is a role that needs to be filled.

And chemistry is not definable the way you just put it. No one is saying that trading Dubinsky would instantly screw up the team's chemistry. But it does put it at risk. Even in the best groups, chemistry is a fragile thing.

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02-27-2012, 04:07 PM
  #81
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Slumps near the deadline are not more or less important than slumps at any other time of the year. It may feel like they are, but they aren't. It's a long season. They've had a few sloppy games in the past couple of weeks. And they're still 2-2-1 in that span.

Nothing about how they've played lately has indicated any kind of weakness that could have realistically been improved at the deadline. Unless you think overpaying for scrubs is in improvement. In which case, I'm glad you don't run the Rangers.

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02-27-2012, 04:07 PM
  #82
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Sather obviously felt that our offense needed an upgrade or else he wouldn't have pursued Nash in the first place.

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02-27-2012, 04:12 PM
  #83
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Same group of players that have been dynamite defensively all season have struggled for 5 games, during which they've still only allowed 4, 2, 2, 3, and 2 goals.

What acquisition would have corrected this terrifying, season destroying problem?

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02-27-2012, 04:15 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Sky Valley View Post
Same group of players that have been dynamite defensively all season have struggled for 5 games, during which they've still only allowed 4, 2, 2, 3, and 2 goals.

What acquisition would have corrected this terrifying, season destroying problem?
I'm not talking about the trade deadline. I'm talking about the cult of posters here who think they're better than everybody because they don't think the team should be changed in some ways.

Also, by "they", i'm sure you mean "Lundqvist" in a lot of places. Nobody's saying it's a season destroying problem. We're a lock for 4th seed at the least at this point probably. The playoffs are a whole different story, and if the the team plays like they have for the past month they're not going to beat other contenders unless Hank or the offense goes into god mode.

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02-27-2012, 04:16 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by LeetchisGod View Post
Sather obviously felt that our offense needed an upgrade or else he wouldn't have pursued Nash in the first place.
He may have felt that way. He may still feel that way. But who who moved today can you say would really have been a big impact on our offense besides Nash?

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02-27-2012, 04:19 PM
  #86
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Is it crazy to call up Zuccarello finally and go with

Anisimov, Stepan, Gaborik
Zuccarello, Richards, Callahan
Hagelin, Boyle, Dubinsky
Rupp, Mitchell/Feds, Prust

Scott , Bickel, Eminger fight for playing time as the 6th praying Sauer becomes healthy or Erixon is ready

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02-27-2012, 04:19 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I'm not talking about the trade deadline. I'm talking about the cult of posters here who think they're better than everybody because they don't think the team should be changed in some ways.

Also, by "they", i'm sure you mean "Lundqvist" in a lot of places. Nobody's saying it's a season destroying problem. We're a lock for 4th seed at the least at this point probably. The playoffs are a whole different story, and if the the team plays like they have for the past month they're not going to beat other contenders unless Hank or the offense goes into god mode.
The defense has always been made to look better by Lundqvist, but it doesn't mean they haven't played extremely well as a unit, and there's no indication to me that they won't continue playing well going forward.

I haven't seen any ridiculous "cult" of people arguing for Status Quo Uber Alles. I see people who don't believe there was a move to be made that would've improved the team, and I see those people getting really frustrated by the ones who think today was a disaster but who haven't been able to actually name one realistic move that could have but did not happen.

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02-27-2012, 04:20 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Is it crazy to call up Zuccarello finally and go with

Anisimov, Stepan, Gaborik
Zuccarello, Richards, Callahan
Hagelin, Boyle, Dubinsky
Rupp, Mitchell/Feds, Prust

Scott , Bickel, Eminger fight for playing time as the 6th praying Sauer becomes healthy or Erixon is ready
Playing Zuccarello ahead of Hagelin or Dubinsky is indeed crazy.

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02-27-2012, 04:22 PM
  #89
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What did anyone giving Sather an F really expect him to do?

Because he didn't give up the farm for Nash or put a gun to Howson's head?

My God, some of you are acting like ****ing Malkin was on the market and Sather let him go to NJ. Gaustad would have been great but not for a 1st. We need scoring, but not in the expense of overpaying for Nash.

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02-27-2012, 04:22 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Sky Valley View Post
The defense has always been made to look better by Lundqvist, but it doesn't mean they haven't played extremely well as a unit, and there's no indication to me that they won't continue playing well going forward.

I haven't seen any ridiculous "cult" of people arguing for Status Quo Uber Alles. I see people who don't believe there was a move to be made that would've improved the team, and I see those people getting really frustrated by the ones who think today was a disaster but who haven't been able to actually name one realistic move that could have but did not happen.
Kostistyn for one, i'd do. I'd also probably do the proposed Nash deal, but Howson didn't bite so c'est la vie.

But i'm saying in the long run, if you have to move pieces for Parise or Ryan, or even Weber, i'd do it. Some people wouldn't. That's what the debate has been, other than the fact that i'm a debbie downer for seeing the flaws the team has.

If you haven't seen people arguing for the status quo, you haven't looked hard enough.

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02-27-2012, 04:22 PM
  #91
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B+

The only guy who got moved that I would have liked to get at the price he went for was Zanon.

Glad we didn't move any valuable pieces, though.

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02-27-2012, 04:23 PM
  #92
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I'm not disappointed with anything that went down. Glad Howson is an idiot and didn't accept Glen's overpayment. There wasn't much available to get so I don't know... B-

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02-27-2012, 04:23 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Sky Valley View Post
The defense has always been made to look better by Lundqvist, but it doesn't mean they haven't played extremely well as a unit, and there's no indication to me that they won't continue playing well going forward.

I haven't seen any ridiculous "cult" of people arguing for Status Quo Uber Alles. I see people who don't believe there was a move to be made that would've improved the team, and I see those people getting really frustrated by the ones who think today was a disaster but who haven't been able to actually name one realistic move that could have but did not happen.
Exactly. Would it have been nice to add some scoring? Sure, but there wasn't much available so we stood pat. Wasn't as if we missed out on some great deals. Fine with me.

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02-27-2012, 04:23 PM
  #94
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For those of us that still plays NHL 12 from time to time comes this tweet about the trades and such..

"@EASPORTSNHL: #NHL12 roster update will go live on Friday - need to see new player numbers & line combos before we're able to update."

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02-27-2012, 04:26 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Playing Zuccarello ahead of Hagelin or Dubinsky is indeed crazy.
I get the thinking behind it though. Zuccarello is only going to be effective as a compliment to other offensively-capable players, while Hagelin could handle 3rd line defensive responsibilties and still possibly raise the whole line's scoring game. And you could still jumble lines situationally to make sure that Hags gets the ice time he deserves.

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02-27-2012, 04:26 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Playing Zuccarello ahead of Hagelin or Dubinsky is indeed crazy.
would it not make the 3rd line deep and does Zuke not need top 6 minutes?

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02-27-2012, 04:26 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I've been out in front of you guys on most things since I've started posting here. Back when you guys were rallying for Sather to be fired recently, I was posting Sather Appreciation Threads saying our time was soon. There was a plan. When you guys wanted Torts fired, I said no, he's going to lead this team to good things.

This was not because I'm some sort of blind optimist. Not at all. I'm a Mets fan. That's all that needs to be said about that.

I believe we will win the cup at least once over the next five years or so. I believe we'll do it by staying to course. And I think it'll be that much sweater winning with a hard working homegrown group like this.

Don't worry, you'll figure it out soon enough. Unfortunately, not until it's already happened.

edit: posted here since it seems like the logical carry over from the trade deadline GDT
I'm not even going to touch the complete nonsense regarding Sather and Tortorella, but the funniest part about this post is how you're championing this team's current roster, the chemistry at play, and your solidarity with Sather's manner of running the team, despite the fact that Sather has spent the last few weeks doing everything he could to do exactly what you seem to think would be the wrong move: disrupting the team chemistry to acquire an offensive upgrade.

Now, I was completely against the acquisition of Rick Nash, and I'm not upset in the slightest that we didn't overpay for Kostitsyn or some other rental based on who was dealt today, but not because I didn't want an offensive upgrade. This team's need for an offensive upgrade is beyond obvious. The only one that doesn't see that appears to be you, because even Glen Sather was more than willing to disrupt team chemistry and trade Brandon Dubinsky, as well as 3 of his better prospects, plus a first round pick, for that offensive upgrade. The fact that Glen Sather wasn't willing to give up the package the Blue Jackets were asking for is a sign that he wasn't willing to get ripped off to get that upgrade, not a sign that you're take on chemistry outranking plain-as-day needs on the ice is correct.

You mentioned elsewhere the need for others to eat crow when this team wins a championship this season. I'll gladly do that, because the likelihood of it happening this season seems low to me. I just hope you remember to eat crow when the Cup that the Rangers do win eventually (yes, I do think they'll win one in the near future) happens only after they've made a major trade to acquire an offensive upgrade, whether it is Nash, Bobby Ryan, or someone else. Chemistry will no doubt be disrupted when such a trade is made, and it'll likely be Dubinsky, core member that he is, that is sent packing.

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You continue to ignore the results of that product. First in the East. I think it just comes down to you're used to watching NHL 12, and don't realize that you can win playing grinding forecheck, and smart defensively.
Indeed, some disregard the results (or at least, the 65% of a season's worth of results), but you take the cake as far as ignoring what happens on the ice itself. I don't know how you could watch NHL hockey without being cognizant of how important offense is based on the way the game is played and officiated in 2012. Furthermore, as far as John Tortorella's tenure with the club, the grinding forecheck has never been less a part of the strategy than it has this season, and rightfully so. Grinding forechecking is a strategy that should be reserved for checking lines, and checking lines alone don't win championships. Thankfully, this team is no longer just a series of checking lines. They had to go to free agency to rectify that problem, since Glen Sather still hasn't drafted or developed a single legitimate first line forward in over a decade running this franchise, but Brad Richards' addition has led to that necessary strategic change.

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02-27-2012, 04:27 PM
  #98
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F for not addressing scoring AT ALL.

A+ for me being owed a tequila!
What moves do you think could have/should have been made?
I agree with you we must at some point do something, but it's hard to get a consensus.

Surely we did not want to trade guys like JT Miller for help now if that help is older or has other issues.

Everyone says no to paying a premium for a young sniper with pre-elite potential like Taylor Hall, because the level of overpay would not be worth it. Meanwhile, Edmonton is actually considering trading down or using the pick for the best D.

We certainly don't want to move guys with higher potential like McDonagh or Del Zotto, but if you say flip Girardi + reasonable X for Weber, people go nuts...

I'm open to suggestions.

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02-27-2012, 04:27 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He may have felt that way. He may still feel that way. But who who moved today can you say would really have been a big impact on our offense besides Nash?
I actually think that Sather was justified in refraining from rash moves in a sellers market. That does not change the fact that scoring has been a major problem for this team in the playoffs recently and could continue to be so.

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02-27-2012, 04:27 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Kostistyn for one, i'd do. I'd also probably do the proposed Nash deal, but Howson didn't bite so c'est la vie.

But i'm saying in the long run, if you have to move pieces for Parise or Ryan, or even Weber, i'd do it. Some people wouldn't. That's what the debate has been, other than the fact that i'm a debbie downer for seeing the flaws the team has.

If you haven't seen people arguing for the status quo, you haven't looked hard enough.
What are you talking about?

Everyone here realizes this team needs scoring, but there was no one on the market besides overpaying for Nash. There was no Parise or Ryan available. If the offense falters in the playoffs, I'm all for exploring a trade for a guy like Ryan.

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