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Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part X

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02-27-2012, 10:14 PM
  #26
Carlzner
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From first topic...
HSHS:
Quote:
He'd better plan on keeping wideman... And trading one of green, Orlov, Carlson as I suggested an idea a few weeks ago.

That would at least show a plan.

But come on.... You know that's not it. That chess and we play.... Candyland.
You would rather have Wideman than those 3?
Come on. He SUCKS, and he's going to want a **** load.
Kaberle is even worse and look what he got. If GMGM declared Wideman was available, he would get a lot.
We better not resign Wideman to a big contract, which he will demand because of his stats.
He sucks. But teams would pay a lot for him because he would have been the best player on the market.

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02-27-2012, 10:20 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
McPhee himself said that everybody was a buyer. Just for players that are unlikely to return, we probably could've had, give or take:

Wideman: 1st
Vokoun: 2nd + 3rd
Knuble: 3rd
Hamrlik: 2nd
would you give up those picks for those players?

I can just imagine if GMGM traded a 3rd for Knuble today, or any of those really.

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02-27-2012, 10:24 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post

You would rather have Wideman than those 3?
Come on. He SUCKS, and he's going to want a **** load.
Kaberle is even worse and look what he got. If GMGM declared Wideman was available, he would get a lot.
We better not resign Wideman to a big contract, which he will demand because of his stats.
He sucks. But teams would pay a lot for him because he would have been the best player on the market.
classic stuff....never fails.

sucky players always have great value....especailly when they are pending UFA's and will expect a "**** load"

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02-27-2012, 10:25 PM
  #29
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The thing I have the biggest issue with is keeping Hamrlik after he questioned Hunter through the media. That should never fly within an organization. I don't care if he had to take equal money back and throw in a pick, you get Hamrlik out of here.
Just curious.........but did you or anyone else actually listen to Hamrlik's whole interview or did you just read what was in print? You know the part that was regurgitated across the internet in a nanosecond?

Hamrlik was prompted by the media. He was first asked if Hunter explained why he was scratched. Hamrlik said "no". Then the media suggested that the reason was because of a penalty. Hamrlik responded with his well known response. What's funnier is nobody has said squat about similar penalties by other players. Those players made the same mistake as Hamrlik with no repercussion.

Could somebody explain why you put a player in that predicament? He's played the whole season. So now he's benched suddenly with no explanation from his coaches and put in front of the media. The Caps got what they deserved. The media was playing two sides against the middle with player and coach. Somebody (coaches) failed to realize it could be a volatile situation.

Bench a player - fine. Scratch a player - fine. Communication could go along way. If the intent was to make Hamr a healthy scratch because of a possible trade then the only thing accomplished by the theatrics was diminishing his value along with Knuble's.

Hamrlik and Knuble have long, accomplished careers. You don't get to that point by being bad eggs in a dressing room. And neither are here either.

So after all that and tradewinds blowing from the Czech Republic across the world everyone wonders why Hamrlik and Knuble were not traded. Too funny.

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02-27-2012, 10:28 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
classic stuff....never fails.

sucky players always have great value....especailly when they are pending UFA's and will expect a "**** load"
He sucks at defense and gets most of his points on the powerplay.
PAUL GAUSTAD got a 1st.
Dennis Wideman is 5th in scoring in Defense (above people like Chara, Boyle, Pieterangelo, Yandle, Suter, Keith) and was selected as an all-star (NOT by fans, so that does have some weight.)

Looking at that, do you still not think he would have gotten a good return? Please.
If Tomas Kaberle got a 1st, 2nd, and Colborne, Wideman would have for sure gotten something similar.

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02-27-2012, 10:30 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
Thats kind of my point....people hate him, trade/no trade. None of it would have been the right move

I do find it interesting that you classify being on the brink of a serious contender as a failure....but I get it....youre either first or last
Nobody disputes that the brass has drafted well the last several years and has developed prospects pretty patiently. When you do that, you'll have a team that will make playoffs consistently. When you also have an Ovechkin-type superstar fall into your lap, you're likely to have at least a puncher's chance every year.

But to be a serious contender, you need to manage cap/contracts wisely and build a team with the right composition and chemistry. Until now, the Caps' management has shown no ability to do that.

So that's where we are -- we have management that will get us to the playoffs pretty much every year indefinitely, but seems to be not good enough to get this team to the level of the big boys.

At this point the Caps need a GM that has those other skills. Of course it could backfire, but if they don't take a risk, we'll never know. Under this management I think we only win a SC by accident/Cinderella run, and more likely all we'll have to show for it will be "N years in the playoffs". It will be another decade spent between 2nd and 3rd base, lol.

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02-27-2012, 10:31 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
From first topic...
HSHS:


You would rather have Wideman than those 3?
Come on. He SUCKS, and he's going to want a **** load.
Kaberle is even worse and look what he got. If GMGM declared Wideman was available, he would get a lot.
We better not resign Wideman to a big contract, which he will demand because of his stats.
He sucks. But teams would pay a lot for him because he would have been the best player on the market.
The kiss of death!

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02-27-2012, 10:33 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
He sucks at defense and gets most of his points on the powerplay.
PAUL GAUSTAD got a 1st.
Dennis Wideman is 5th in scoring in Defense (above people like Chara, Boyle, Pieterangelo, Yandle, Suter, Keith) and was selected as an all-star (NOT by fans, so that does have some weight.)

Looking at that, do you still not think he would have gotten a good return? Please.
If Tomas Kaberle got a 1st, 2nd, and Colborne, Wideman would have for sure gotten something similar.
You honestly think Wideman would have gotten a 1st, 2nd and top prospect?

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02-27-2012, 10:33 PM
  #34
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All I need to say is Dimitri Mirinov. Wideman is a slightly better version, but not by much.

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02-27-2012, 10:34 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
You honestly think Wideman would have gotten a 1st, 2nd and top prospect?
No. But he would have gotten the best return out of all the UFA's today. For sure.
... and it would have been much smarter to trade him, rather than keep him, even though he sucks at D and we have Green back and Orlov up, and possibly resign him.

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02-27-2012, 10:37 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
No. But he would have gotten the best return out of all the UFA's today. For sure.
... and it would have been much smarter to trade him, rather than keep him, even though he sucks at D and we have Green back and Orlov up, and possibly resign him.
I like how in one breath you build Wideman up to make it seem like he has a lot of value but in another breath you talk about how much he sucks.

Fact is, the Caps are a better team with Dennis Wideman on the roster then without him, so that's why Mcphee kept him.

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02-27-2012, 10:37 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
You honestly think Wideman would have gotten a 1st, 2nd and top prospect?
Look at the return on Zidlicky that the Wild got. A 1st round pick and some change isn't that far off.

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02-27-2012, 10:37 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
He sucks at defense and gets most of his points on the powerplay.
PAUL GAUSTAD got a 1st.
Dennis Wideman is 5th in scoring in Defense (above people like Chara, Boyle, Pieterangelo, Yandle, Suter, Keith) and was selected as an all-star (NOT by fans, so that does have some weight.)

Looking at that, do you still not think he would have gotten a good return? Please.
If Tomas Kaberle got a 1st, 2nd, and Colborne, Wideman would have for sure gotten something similar.
To Nashville, they feel he is the last piece to the Cup run this year. He is worth a 1st to them. That is one thing about Poile, he isn't afraid to make those gutsy moves when he feels the team needs it. I very often think what would this team be if Poile had Ted's money.

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02-27-2012, 10:39 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
I like how in one breath you build Wideman up to make it seem like he has a lot of value but in another breath you talk about how much he sucks.

Fact is, the Caps are a better team with Dennis Wideman on the roster then without him, so that's why Mcphee kept him.
He sucks at defense. But he is also 5th in scoring in defenseman. You think that doesn't mean anything? We don't need his offensive skills, and we sure as hell don't need him as a defensive liability.

He would have definitely gotten a lot. I used Kaberle as a comparison. Kaberle is not a very good defenseman, and he got a lot. Why wouldn't Wideman?

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02-27-2012, 10:39 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by IafrateOvie34 View Post
To Nashville, they feel he is the last piece to the Cup run this year. He is worth a 1st to them. That is one thing about Poile, he isn't afraid to make those gutsy moves when he feels the team needs it. I very often think what would this team be if Poile had Ted's money.
Im sure there would have been a couple teams that thought the defenseman who is 5th in scoring could potentially be the last piece.

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02-27-2012, 10:40 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LetsGoBears View Post
Look at the return on Zidlicky that the Wild got. A 1st round pick and some change isn't that far off.
The return for Zidlicky sucked. They got a 2nd, 3rd, two garbage NHL players and a prospect who's potential is a 3rd/4th line grinder.

Hardly even close to the return Kaberle got last season.

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02-27-2012, 10:40 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
would you give up those picks for those players?

I can just imagine if GMGM traded a 3rd for Knuble today, or any of those really.
That seems like nitpicking on details to bypass the overall argument.

I think those prices are well within the realm of possibility given the actual trades and the news of it being a strong seller's market.

My point was that on balance, that would more than a draft's worth of picks. Even if I'm off by a pick here or there, it would still be very close to a draft's worth.

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02-27-2012, 10:43 PM
  #43
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It's all history now, time to hope these guys make it in and the retaining of the UFAs pay off as depth down the run. I don't think any team in the East wants to face the Caps in the playoffs regardless of this season. One thing all of us should have learned, making the playoffs as a great regular season team doesn't matter once it begins.

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02-27-2012, 10:44 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Braden Carlzner View Post
He sucks at defense and gets most of his points on the powerplay.
PAUL GAUSTAD got a 1st.
Dennis Wideman is 5th in scoring in Defense (above people like Chara, Boyle, Pieterangelo, Yandle, Suter, Keith) and was selected as an all-star (NOT by fans, so that does have some weight.)

Looking at that, do you still not think he would have gotten a good return? Please.
If Tomas Kaberle got a 1st, 2nd, and Colborne, Wideman would have for sure gotten something similar.
Yes, Gaustad got a 1st....youre point? A team...with that need, overpaid. If there was a team that needed an offensive D I could see getting a 1st maybe. Lets say Chicago had Keith/Seabrook out....maybe they make that move instead of a lesser move for just some depth

Before leaving T.O Kaberle was thought by many as a top 10 D (not me)....he has proven a lot more than Wideman...is a multiple all star and, this part is important....that was a year ago. At that same time Wideman netted a 3rd and a throw away prospect

Now...this guy who "sucks at defense" (which is kind of important in the playoffs so I hear) is expected to get a top prospect, a 1st and a 2nd? Do you even hear yourself?

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02-27-2012, 10:45 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
The return for Zidlicky sucked. They got a 2nd, 3rd, two garbage NHL players and a prospect who's potential is a 3rd/4th line grinder.

Hardly even close to the return Kaberle got last season.
Zidlicky sucks. He isn't what Kaberle was.

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02-27-2012, 10:46 PM
  #46
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Im sure there would have been a couple teams that thought the defenseman who is 5th in scoring could potentially be the last piece.
Oh, I don't doubt that. He might have been asking way too much so they went for cheaper options. We'll find out in a few days or weeks what was out there.

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02-27-2012, 10:46 PM
  #47
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To Nashville, they feel he is the last piece to the Cup run this year. He is worth a 1st to them. That is one thing about Poile, he isn't afraid to make those gutsy moves when he feels the team needs it. I very often think what would this team be if Poile had Ted's money.

Yeah--Poile would be better than McPhee. I'm not sure he can win a Cup but he's a lot better than average.

It's really, really, really, really, really hard to win a Stanley Cup. Ted, a newcomer to the game, doesn't realize how it works. It takes a special manager to put the pieces together.

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02-27-2012, 10:49 PM
  #48
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Zidlicky sucks. He isn't what Kaberle was.
No ****. That's what I was saying.

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02-27-2012, 10:50 PM
  #49
Carlzner
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
Yes, Gaustad got a 1st....youre point? A team...with that need, overpaid. If there was a team that needed an offensive D I could see getting a 1st maybe. Lets say Chicago had Keith/Seabrook out....maybe they make that move instead of a lesser move for just some depth

Before leaving T.O Kaberle was thought by many as a top 10 D (not me)....he has proven a lot more than Wideman...is a multiple all star and, this part is important....that was a year ago. At that same time Wideman netted a 3rd and a throw away prospect

Now...this guy who "sucks at defense" (which is kind of important in the playoffs so I hear) is expected to get a top prospect, a 1st and a 2nd? Do you even hear yourself?
I don't see through the same eyes as GMs. Its not "easy" to notice when someone is streaky bad at defense like Wideman is. Its up to interpretation, and mine is that he is not good at D and we sure as hell shouldn't resign him, especially when we don't need him.

Kaberle had accomplishments from previous years, but he was bad last year. Wideman was an all-star and a top defensive scorer. Both matter equally.

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02-27-2012, 10:50 PM
  #50
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That seems like nitpicking on details to bypass the overall argument.

I think those prices are well within the realm of possibility given the actual trades and the news of it being a strong seller's market.

My point was that on balance, that would more than a draft's worth of picks. Even if I'm off by a pick here or there, it would still be very close to a draft's worth.
you over rate the return on just about every single one of those, its the basis for this "drafts worth of picks" position....and you call it nitpicking?

again, would you make those trades?

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