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Rebuilding our defense...

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Old
02-27-2012, 11:20 PM
  #26
NHL1674
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And excerpt from Russo's blog

Fletcher
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Lots of salary cap space, flexibility this summer? “At least last summer, we felt we were a bit stuck in terms of not being able to get over the hump for the present and maybe not having enough assets going forward. … We’re very cognizant of the fact that over time here we have to add more NHL talent, too. Part of our push as we get better will be from young players, part of it will be from adding NHL players. In order to do that, you either need cap space or you need young assets to trade, and the good news is we feel we have both. Whether it’s this summer or this winter, we think we’re in the best position we’ve ever been in terms of being going out and get better quickly.”

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02-27-2012, 11:20 PM
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BuddyMcCormick
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Is it bad that I saw the thread title and thought "Hmmmm..." then looked at the creator and thought "Here we go again"?

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02-27-2012, 11:20 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
What impatience? Going into next season with the same defense we have this season? Minus Foster but have Prosser the entire time and Brodin?

Yep. That sounds like impatience to me when guys like Falk and Stoner have pretty much hit their peak and Spurgeron isn't going to grow another foot.

The only guy I can see that can grow currently is Scandella and his progression has been up and down.
Such is life as a young defenseman in the NHL. You think Adam Larsson has been amazing all season long? He hasn't.

Yes, constantly harping on next season, without thought towards the future seems impatient. Our defense going into next season is not going to markedly worse than the one we had coming into this season, and should be better moving the puck.


Last edited by Dr Jan Itor: 02-27-2012 at 11:40 PM.
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02-27-2012, 11:22 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyMcCormick View Post
Is it bad that I saw the thread title and thought "Hmmmm..." then looked at the creator and thought "Here we go again"?
Don't think so.

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02-27-2012, 11:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Such is life as a young defenseman in the NHL. You think Adam Larsson has been amazing all season long? He hasn't.
You're comparing Larsson, a fresh out of the SEL to the NHL with Scandella, a guy that has played a few seasons in the AHL and gradually moved into the NHL?

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Yes, constantly harping on next season, with a thought towards the future seems impatient. Our defense going into next season is not going to markedly worse than the one we had coming into this season, and should be better moving the puck.
Yes, because this organization has not been within playoffs distance for a long time.

Our defensive is going to be a bit worse off than the one we had coming into this season.

Great, we can move the puck. But can we actually defend?

OTH does that mean he's thinking of moving one of our young guys like Zucker?

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02-27-2012, 11:25 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
You're comparing Larsson, a fresh out of the SEL to the NHL with Scandella, a guy that has played a few seasons in the AHL and gradually moved into the NHL?



Yes, because this organization has not been within playoffs distance for a long time.

Our defensive is going to be a bit worse off than the one we had coming into this season.

Great, we can move the puck. But can we actually defend?

OTH does that mean he's thinking of moving one of our young guys like Zucker?
You realize that moving the puck out of the zone is part of defending right?

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02-27-2012, 11:26 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
You're comparing Larsson, a fresh out of the SEL to the NHL with Scandella, a guy that has played a few seasons in the AHL and gradually moved into the NHL?
Yes, I am comparing them. They are both young defensemen, are they not? Is the SEL not a professional league? It's the same reason Brodin will likely have his ups and downs. The same reason Pietrangelo has had ups and downs.

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Yes, because this organization has not been within playoffs distance for a long time.

Our defensive is going to be a bit worse off than the one we had coming into this season.

Great, we can move the puck. But can we actually defend?
If you think the lack of Schultz's defense is what is going to stand in our way from making the playoffs, I'm not sure how to respond. We are BUILDING a team, it takes time and can come from many different avenues.

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02-27-2012, 11:28 PM
  #33
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Is that the cheapest blueline in the league? I would love to see a list sorted by blueline cost.
Some very quick looks and math, and I think these are the closest teams to us(only counting highest 6, because I don't know the starting lineups for every team):
Rangers - 11.5
Avs - 11.5
Islanders - 11.3

I wasn't able to find a team spending <10 mil on defense (granted this was a VERY quick look through)

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02-27-2012, 11:28 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Yes, I am comparing them. They are both young defensemen, are they not? Is the SEL not a professional league? It's the same reason Brodin will likely have his ups and downs. They same reason Pietrangelo has had ups and downs.
SEL doesn't compare to the AHL. As well Scandella is what? 22 now? Larsson is 18. Big different as well.

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If you think the lack of Schultz's defense is what is going to stand in our way from making the playoffs, I'm not sure how to respond. We are BUILDING a team, it takes time and can come from many different avenues.
No but Schultz provided a more reliable defenseman than what we have right now.

What I said in another thread; we replaced Zidlicky with a guy that plays worse defense than him. We replaced Zanon...with...who knows what. And we replaced Schultz with a guy that came into the league with a worse defense than us.

And we're suppose to go, yup. Our defense is getting better because we replaced two guys with players that are worse than they are?

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02-27-2012, 11:31 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by BuddyMcCormick View Post
Is it bad that I saw the thread title and thought "Hmmmm..." then looked at the creator and thought "Here we go again"?
Honestly I did the same thing.

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02-27-2012, 11:32 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Honestly I did the same thing.
Your avatar really creeps me out, BTW.

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02-27-2012, 11:34 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
SEL doesn't compare to the AHL. As well Scandella is what? 22 now? Larsson is 18. Big different as well.



No but Schultz provided a more reliable defenseman than what we have right now.

What I said in another thread; we replaced Zidlicky with a guy that plays worse defense than him. We replaced Zanon...with...who knows what. And we replaced Schultz with a guy that came into the league with a worse defense than us.

And we're suppose to go, yup. Our defense is getting better because we replaced two guys with players that are worse than they are?
Worse at certain things, better at certain things. Gilbert has defensive gaffes and contributes offense; Schultz has defensive gaffes and doesn't contribute offense. Right now I'll take the former. And before you say "defensemen should play defense first", you just used Karlsson as an example of what sets Ottawa apart from us; a very offensive defenseman with questionable defense (and no, I'm not comparing Gilbert to Karlsson).

Didn't you say in another thread, that GMCF should "stick to doing what he does best", which is drafting, and refrain from making trades? Now you want him to make trades? Which is it?

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02-27-2012, 11:37 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Your avatar really creeps me out, BTW.
You obviously have no idea who Karkat Vantas is then.

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02-27-2012, 11:37 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Great, we can move the puck. But can we actually defend?

OTH does that mean he's thinking of moving one of our young guys like Zucker?
Yep. It says so in our "fight" song.

I'm only guessing, but I think he may be more willing to spend the extra money now vs. moving prospects like Zucker. But I could be totally wrong.

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02-27-2012, 11:39 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post

Didn't you say in another thread, that GMCF should "stick to doing what he does best", which is drafting, and refrain from making trades? Now you want him to make trades? Which is it?
I really don't think he's going to trade anyone but it shows really. There was absolutely no need to move Schultz and even at best maybe in the off-season. Gilbert was not a huge priority for us with Foster here and Brodin coming in.

What we are missing is a guy like Johnsson. We just simply can't find a guy that can make a good outlet pass (not really offense but it helps) but also plays a steady, reliable game on the backend. Which Brodin should provide.

Schultz had one bad year. He wasn't that bad last year and has always been a very solid hockey player, if slightly overpaid.

Yes I use Karlsson, because he's a young hockey player and still developing. They also have better defensemen overall than us...and Karlsson is joining elite territory for offensive defensemen. (And he's a +15).

This is like the whole center issue that Minnesota has had in the past.

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02-27-2012, 11:54 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
SEL doesn't compare to the
No but Schultz provided a more reliable defenseman than what we have right now.
Schultz is more of a stay-at-home defenseman. I won't disagree with that. But in order to get Yeo's system working, we need puck moving defensemen too. We need blueliners who can get the puck on net sometimes. That's where the change is coming. Do I think that our defense has gotten better in regards to actually defending? Honestly, probably not. But it was either stay put, keep sucking at defending with zero ability to move the puck and help out the struggling offense...OR.....keep sucking at defending, but start taking baby steps towards helping out offensively.

I think we can all agree that the offensive output for this team is pathetic. If we aren't scoring only 1 goal a game, then we're trailing by one without a pulse. I truly think that our forwards' numbers are low, because of the lack of help from the back-end. Watching both the forwards and D equally contributing offensively against the Sharks was refreshing. That's what we need more of. I'd rather suck at defending for a while if it means adding more goals. We can't fix both aspects at once, but we're going to have the tools to do it soon.

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02-28-2012, 12:18 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Schultz is more of a stay-at-home defenseman. I won't disagree with that. But in order to get Yeo's system working, we need puck moving defensemen too. We need blueliners who can get the puck on net sometimes. That's where the change is coming. Do I think that our defense has gotten better in regards to actually defending? Honestly, probably not. But it was either stay put, keep sucking at defending with zero ability to move the puck and help out the struggling offense...OR.....keep sucking at defending, but start taking baby steps towards helping out offensively.

I think we can all agree that the offensive output for this team is pathetic. If we aren't scoring only 1 goal a game, then we're trailing by one without a pulse. I truly think that our forwards' numbers are low, because of the lack of help from the back-end. Watching both the forwards and D equally contributing offensively against the Sharks was refreshing. That's what we need more of. I'd rather suck at defending for a while if it means adding more goals. We can't fix both aspects at once, but we're going to have the tools to do it soon.
Just throwing it out there, even with all the general suckage lately, the Wild are still top-10 in GA/G.

I absolutely agree that sucking at breaking the puck out has really hindered offensive production, though.

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02-28-2012, 12:20 AM
  #43
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Well the issue seems to be that the blueliners have had to get way too much help from the forwards this year to do their damned job. So while were top ten in GA/G, our G/G stat is **** because all our forwards do is defend, especially our top two lines.

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02-28-2012, 12:21 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Just throwing it out there, even with all the general suckage lately, the Wild are still top-10 in GA/G.

I absolutely agree that sucking at breaking the puck out has really hindered offensive production, though.
How does that happen?!

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02-28-2012, 12:23 AM
  #45
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Well the issue seems to be that the blueliners have had to get way too much help from the forwards this year to do their damned job. So while were top ten in GA/G, our G/G stat is **** because all our forwards do is defend, especially our top two lines.
That's part of it. Plus, with the injuries, the forwards have had to play out of their usual positions. We haven't been able to use guys in their rightful spots where we can get the most out of them. Way too much pressure on them this year. No wonder their numbers are down.

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02-28-2012, 12:23 AM
  #46
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Well the issue seems to be that the blueliners have had to get way too much help from the forwards this year to do their damned job. So while were top ten in GA/G, our G/G stat is **** because all our forwards do is defend, especially our top two lines.
Forwards playing responsible defense is part of Yeo's system, not the fault of the defensemen. The thing hampering our production is our inability to gain puck possession in the offensive zone. It's not our play in the defensive zone; it's our transition game.

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02-28-2012, 12:27 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Forwards playing responsible defense is part of Yeo's system, not the fault of the defensemen. The thing hampering our production is our inability to gain puck possession in the offensive zone. It's not our play in the defensive zone; it's our transition game.
Right, but if the blueliners were stepping it up and helping get it out of the zone more we would stand a better shot of being able to transition from defense to offense before the forward line that's out is gassed and has to change.

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02-28-2012, 01:25 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
I think we can all agree that the offensive output for this team is pathetic.
That's not the defense's fault.

We simply don't have any forwards that want to shoot. Seto is streaky and Heatley isn't what he was. Koivu sucks at offense. Bouchard and Lats are done. Then who?

That's the biggest problem.

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02-28-2012, 01:47 AM
  #49
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That's not the defense's fault.

We simply don't have any forwards that want to shoot. Seto is streaky and Heatley isn't what he was. Koivu sucks at offense. Bouchard and Lats are done. Then who?

That's the biggest problem.
How can these guys play offense when the puck is in their own zone for 30 of the 45 seconds of their shift? Hockey 101 here. The team struggles offensively as it spends a lot of zone time in the D-Zone with no one to be able to get the puck moving north and create flow and chances. When they finally do its late in a shift and can't sustain long enough pressure. Earlier in the year when they were moving the puck north you saw the Wild have lots of zone time in the offensive zone and create chances off the rush and continued pressure through cycling early in shifts and made the other team play in their own zone.

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02-28-2012, 01:57 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by powerplay33 View Post
How can these guys play offense when the puck is in their own zone for 30 of the 45 seconds of their shift?
Maybe the offense should help chip in and pass the puck out of the zone and generate you know some changes.

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The team struggles offensively as it spends a lot of zone time in the D-Zone with no one to be able to get the puck moving north and create flow and chances.
This team struggles offensively and has struggled offensively because we have no offense. Forward, defense. But you don't throw everything out just because you can't get one guy to move the puck from the blueline.

To know Minnesota hockey you need to know this;

1) Any forward coming in will not shoot the puck
2) Any opposing forward will always have a welcome home in front of the crease
3) Any defenseman that can't score is automatically a scapegoat.

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