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Will Subban be as good as Karlsson?

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Old
02-27-2012, 06:54 AM
  #251
WayneBruce
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
This is what i'm trying to say. EK is having a serious career year. I don't think he would get anywhere near that in the future. He's shooting and every thing goes in. He does a great transition pass and the forward goes 1 on 1 and scores. It's just an overall good year.

Take out secondary passes and it's another story.
Karlsson would still lead all defensemen in scoring without his secondary assists, he would also be tied 2nd if you take all of his PP points away.

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02-27-2012, 07:07 AM
  #252
Nac Mac Feegle
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According the the NHL official site, Karlsson is 13th overall in the league (and top ranked defenseman) in takeaways with 53. He is also rocking a +15. All that and a respectable 51 blocked shots. All this talk about his poor defensive play is overblown.

Yes, he was pretty brutal defensively in his rookie season, but at that time he was a lightweight and had to learn how to use his positioning and stick effectively in the NHL. This year he is well above average defensively.

Bottom line is, you can't teach speed and you can't teach hockey IQ, both of which Karlsson has in spades.

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Old
02-27-2012, 07:18 AM
  #253
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Karlsson, you're making me win my hockey pool, thank you and keep it up!

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Old
02-27-2012, 02:12 PM
  #254
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How did he do that exactly?
He handled him the exact same way he did last year.
Forced a defensive system on him, should have let him get his offensive play under him before trying to change his style. Pretty damn obvious martin did not like his free wheeling style and put the kybosh on it.

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Old
02-27-2012, 07:04 PM
  #255
gampy
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It's hard to say who will be better, because they play so differently.

Subban has the skill, size, and defensive instincts to become a great "traditional" defenseman.
You know...how they train Canadian kids to play defense.

Karlsson is really kind of a hybrid player. Not a true defenseman, not a winger or centre. He is something that is hard to defend against I think, because of what he does in the defender position.I think the Ottawa coaching staff have realized this and work their game plans around his skill-set. And his deficiences.

But...like size, points matter. I think he scores more goals, than he causes. (no stats to back this up).

We'll see in a couple years I guess, where Subban is. He has the potential to be a rock on the back end, and a great passer. Needs work on his shot though.

At this juncture, I have to say Karlsson is better.

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02-28-2012, 05:29 AM
  #256
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Forced a defensive system on him, should have let him get his offensive play under him before trying to change his style. Pretty damn obvious martin did not like his free wheeling style and put the kybosh on it.
It's interesting that you say this because they were talking about Karlsson and how the Sens have let him freewheel. They were saying that by giving him the freedom to do this he's developed much more rapidly than he otherwise would.

Seems to be the opposite of what we've been doing with PK.

I can understand both sides of the coin here. PK takes a lot of chances and it drives the coaches crazy. I think he needs to simplify his game. But by the same token, we shouldnt' be so strict as to nullify his creativity. There's a balance that needs to be struck.

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Old
02-28-2012, 06:21 AM
  #257
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
There's a balance that needs to be struck.
oh absolutely, but if he hadn't been 'restrained', would he be capable of playing the minutes he's playing against the opposing team's top lines as he is now?

he's developed into a pretty solid, dependable defensive guy considering everything and i have no doubt he'll get better as the years go by. his freewheeling style will always be there so better to teach him good defense early on

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02-28-2012, 07:15 AM
  #258
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
oh absolutely, but if he hadn't been 'restrained', would he be capable of playing the minutes he's playing against the opposing team's top lines as he is now?

he's developed into a pretty solid, dependable defensive guy considering everything and i have no doubt he'll get better as the years go by. his freewheeling style will always be there so better to teach him good defense early on
I don't know. Different schools of thought on this I guess. I had always thought hammering home defense was the smart way to go but maybe not.

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Old
02-28-2012, 10:56 AM
  #259
ghozzt
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Very simple answer...NO.
Karlsson: 63 points in 61 games
Subban: 24 points in 62 games.
That alone should be your proof.

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02-28-2012, 11:01 AM
  #260
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by ghozzt View Post
Very simple answer...NO.
Karlsson: 63 points in 61 games
Subban: 24 points in 62 games.
That alone should be your proof.
right. because players never improve, or anything like that. read the title of the thread and thanks for playing!

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02-28-2012, 11:12 AM
  #261
GoodKiwi
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Karlsson is the better overall player (if you had to consider all facets of the game and weigh them in) AINEC.

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02-28-2012, 11:15 AM
  #262
Vsevolod Bobrov
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Originally Posted by gampy View Post
It's hard to say who will be better, because they play so differently.
It's really not.

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02-28-2012, 12:07 PM
  #263
Ollie Williams
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Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
It's really not.
This. The superiority of Subban's game is very clear.

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Old
02-28-2012, 03:42 PM
  #264
SID87BORG
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Right now, Karlsson is having an amazing year, so he is the "sexier" pick. He's better than PK this year. But PK has the potential to be better than him in the future, maybe not point-wise but overall.

As for people saying that Karlsson is a defense liability and comparable to a Mike Green, I disagree. Karlsson was a defensive liability when he came into the league, but I think that under the tutelage/mentoring of Gonchar & Alfie, he has learned a lot and is better defensively (obviously Gonch is not the same player he was 3 years ago, but still he can impart his knowledge). Karlsson's play this year does not remind me of Mike Green at all. Yes, he put up points but he's not horrendous defensively like Green was when he was considered for the Norris trophy. Plus, Green in the playoffs against us was lol-worthy, where you could tell/see the potential in Karlsson in the games he played vs Pens in the playoffs. I have to say that we have seen the worst of both players (Green in the playoffs, and Karlsson -7 this year against us).

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02-28-2012, 06:53 PM
  #265
icerocket
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Holy crap people take off your habs colored glasses.

Subban will never be as good as EK.

But you know what, that's fine because EK is Lidstrom's successor.

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Old
02-28-2012, 06:55 PM
  #266
chaosrevolver
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Lets hold off on the EK is Lids successor talk..lets wait a few years to say that.

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:49 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Ollie Williams View Post
This. The superiority of Subban's game is very clear.
Is this meant to be sarcasm?

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Old
02-29-2012, 06:17 AM
  #268
wprager
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For those of you who quoted stats about how Karlsson doesn't play the PK, last night, in the final minute, with the Sens clinging to a 1-0 lead and the Bs on a 6-ion-4 power play (goalie pulled), guess who was on the ice? Gotta feel good when the coach has that much confidence in you, eh?

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Old
02-29-2012, 07:10 AM
  #269
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Is this meant to be sarcasm?
i dunno... hard to tell

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Old
02-29-2012, 07:38 AM
  #270
Montreal Shadow
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The only way Subban will be as good as Karlsson(assuming Karlsson keeps his ridiculous PPG average) is if he becomes a consistent 60-65pts guy who plays very good defense and keeps hitting hard. Simply put, it's extremely doubtful he'll be as good unless Karlsson falls back to being a 50pts guy or if Subban becomes one of the best all-around D in the league.

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