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Less and less talent on this team, anybody else worried?

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Old
02-28-2012, 12:22 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
I don't think Emelin will be staying in Montreal.
Why is that?

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02-28-2012, 12:23 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanresu Wen View Post
With Cammalleri and Kostitsyn now gone and Bourque and whoever (Palushaj, Geoffrion?) to take their places this team is losing in the skill area.

Cammalleri was a great sniper. Kostitsyn, while having less hockey IQ, did show some dangling and flashy moves when he felt like it.

I imagine the spectacle will be elsewhere.
Worried? No not at all. Not like we can get much worse.

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02-28-2012, 12:24 AM
  #78
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Weve had nothing but talent the last 5-6 years, look where that got us

Time for some hard work now.

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02-28-2012, 12:25 AM
  #79
Maliki2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanresu Wen View Post
With Cammalleri and Kostitsyn now gone and Bourque and whoever (Palushaj, Geoffrion?) to take their places this team is losing in the skill area.

Cammalleri was a great sniper. Kostitsyn, while having less hockey IQ, did show some dangling and flashy moves when he felt like it.

I imagine the spectacle will be elsewhere.
Cammi continuing to suck his way...20+ min on the ice, 2 shots on goal. WOW!

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02-28-2012, 12:30 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
Cammi continuing to suck his way...20+ min on the ice, 2 shots on goal. WOW!
cammi hasn't been good, but the 2 markets he's played in haven't been conducive environments...in fact they have been LOSER environments...sucking all the energy, skills and will out of you.

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02-28-2012, 12:37 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
We should come out with guns a blazing for Suter, lets overpay with a few million for him (using Gomez money)...whatever it takes. A guy like suter playing 25-30 minutes a game will make us pretty close into a contender right away. He's tough, plays in all situations, can skate, make a good first pass...a top 10 dmen in the league is worth an overpayment.
Welcome aboard.

There has been a serious depletion of talent over many years of downward and sideways moves. While there are a few promising pieces, we're at the point of witnessing possibly the weakest top to bottom lineup in the team's history.

I can't imagine one player, of any calibre, getting the team to where a championship hungry fan wants it.

I honestly hope this is not lost on those who will weigh in on the selection of the next GM. The team cannot be scared away from manager candidates who offer a vision that includes 3-5 years of slow talent acquisition , investment in off-ice talent that allows for better scouting decisions, and making people accountable for serious mistakes.

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02-28-2012, 12:38 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
Kostitsyn used his size pretty well and he absolutely leveled players when he had to. Here's the thing, our pro scouting sucks and our management trades all of our good players for nothing. Why trade an asset that we clearly need when we have no backup? How can other teams take our players with 'bad attitudes' and automatically turn them into productive players and hardworking teammates? At some point we have to realize that its not the players that are the problem, its our bloody poison riddled environment. I mean for crying out loud we have people being adamant about getting rid of Subban and Price. The media and the fans blow it up into an issue, it becomes a distraction for the players as they are inundated with negativity and where's our management to show support for the player? Nowhere. Instead they let the disturbance get to a boiling point and then we get a Janne Niiniimaa..
So much truth in this post (especially the bold part) and that's the sad part.

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02-28-2012, 12:40 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Maliki2 View Post
Worried? No not at all. Not like we can get much worse.
wait 'till you see who we're picking in the 1st round. We'll be rioting in the streets, guaranteed! half-

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02-28-2012, 12:49 AM
  #84
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I was ok with a bad season because of injuries but add a grigorenko to the line up at the neginning of the season and add a grigorenko now and it's not the same thing.

Cammalleri is having a bad season but he's still a hood player... Tanguay had a bad season and he came back.

Just for fun

Cammalleri Plekanec Gionta
Pacioretty Desharnais Cole
Kostitsyn Eller Grigorenko
Moen White Darche

Or

Bourque Plekanec Gionta
Cole Desharnais Pacioretty
Moen Eller Grigorenko...

Grigorenko takes the face off with the remparts but he s really playing the wing and we could have had the option of trading our other center with the most value for a good winger ( probably pleks)

The first line up is a lot better ... All we did this year is create holes in our line up because of a bad year..,

When it happened to the flyets they surely didn't blow up their team like we did this year

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02-28-2012, 01:06 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Welcome aboard.

There has been a serious depletion of talent over many years of downward and sideways moves. While there are a few promising pieces, we're at the point of witnessing possibly the weakest top to bottom lineup in the team's history.

I can't imagine one player, of any calibre, getting the team to where a championship hungry fan wants it.

I honestly hope this is not lost on those who will weigh in on the selection of the next GM. The team cannot be scared away from manager candidates who offer a vision that includes 3-5 years of slow talent acquisition , investment in off-ice talent that allows for better scouting decisions, and making people accountable for serious mistakes.
Here's the thing though, what has changed from the team that took the bruins to game 7 last year and the team we have this year?

What we lost: Gionta and Markov (Wisniewski) out, Cammalleri traded, a coach with a semblance of a system and a brain (pp sucks, no transition, etc), Subban and Plekanec having a poor year (can be attributed to coaching issue), Hamrlik and Spacek

What we gained this year:
Cole, emergence of Desharnais, Emelin and Pacioretty, Bourque (meh), Kaberle (meh meh), hopefully a franchise pick, a year of development for price and subban

What can bring us back to 2011 success:
A new coach with a system, Healthy Markov and Gionta, bounce back years from Plekanec and Subban, enhanced production from eller and leblanc to makeup for loss of kostitsyn

What can put us into a top 4 team in the conference in addition to the above:
Ryan Suter, enhanced progress of Cole line, our first round pick having a calder type year(Nail or Grigs)...


i honestly think we are not TOO far off. i just don't trust the management to make the right decisions, i can see us hiring a terrible coach, keeping gauthier and keeping gomez causing another abysmal year.

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02-28-2012, 01:07 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Arctic_Hab_Fan View Post
The best Cammalleri has done is 26 goals in the regular season for 6 million a year in his time as a Montreal Canadien.
It doesn't matter as much what he did in the regular season. the fact is in 32 playoff games when it matters most he had 32 points! We lost that this year and now Kostitsyn. Depth! Yes he will thrive on top 6 minutes and pp time. Here we had the depth..so he played less minutes.. at 3. whatever mill for 20 goals.. yes please! people complain about him but he played third line minutes, had chemistry with Eller.. and was used with Gomez for the past while. PG put us in this mess with the back end, letting guys walk and putting in rookies. Weber, Campoli, Diaz, all horrible! He tried to fix his mess with Kaberle and he is awful too! Poor Price, he wont sign long term with that backend..

we were one series from the cup, one goal from knocking off the eventually stlaney cup champs.. now this team is blown up.. and i dont like it one bit

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02-28-2012, 01:31 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
So at the beginning of the season we had the potential of three offensive lines. All we needed was a big dominant winger.

Cammelleri Plekanec Gionta
Cole Desharnais Pacioretty
Kostitsyn Eller (missing piece) could have tried pouliot thereby the way instead of letting him go for nothing.

Plus we had a real fourth line.

Darche White Moen

Our defence looked good with markov in the line up... The mistake was to release every back up for him we had and replace the with rookies but it could have been a good d.

Markov Emelin
Subban Gill
Gorges Spacek

No problem with goaltending...

We weren't that bad the problem was the d and a dominant winger or replacePlek with a better center but we were pretty decent and definitely playoff contender.

In less than on year look at our team and it's an assesment of the bad job gauthier

Cole Desharnais Pacioretty
Bourque Plekanec Gionta
Geoffrion Eller White
Moen Nokelainen Staubitz

Markov Emelin
Subban Gorges
Kaberle Diaz

I actually liked the Kaberle deal but putting him with a guy like Weber Diaz or even Emelin is actually trying to make him look bad. Put him with Gorges and I'm practically sure we all like that deal the problem is we don't have d depth

My solution would be
Subban Emelin
Kaberle Gorges

But our third pairing is still not up to par.

I also liked the Gill deal because let's be honest we had a lot for Gill's value .

Mistakes were Cammalleri and Kostitsyn deals... We depleted our chance of three offensive line and with the injuries to ley players like gionta we look even thinier on depths. We are not even able anymore to build two offensive lines.

Gauthier just proved to us how incompetant he really is by trading good assets on their worst year and on firing a coach at the worst possible time and replacing him by the worst possible choice... Instead of placing an inerim coach he should have kept Martin till the end of the year.

Instead of capitalizing on a bad year with a good line up next year he just decided to destroy the team from the inside out... Making it bigger but a lot less good.

That is why I'm mad ... Cammalleri wasn't that good this year it's true but he is still a potental of 80 points while Bourque never even touch the 60 point marks with the same players Cammalleri made 80 by the way. Mike just had an off year it's easy to understand.

Kostitsyn... It's simple if all your gonna have for him is a second rounder than sign him he's still a 20 goal scorer with almost no power play time when he's playing with Eller.

Plus he said he wanted to stay a habs for less money not so long ago... We have no one to replace him on the third line...

PG gave us a pretty nice course on how to destroy a team in 1 year.

I'm mad mad mad fire him before he does more damage.
great post

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02-28-2012, 01:48 AM
  #88
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The sad thing about this is going into this season, I genuinely thought depth scoring would be one of our strengths. Sure we lacked PPG talent, but with the addition of Cole and emergence of Pacioretty it looked like we finally had a team capable of 5 on 5 play. And it looked like things were working out, even with the awful start we still have had all season long better 5 on 5 scoring than we had in years. The power play and weak defense killed us for once. If only the power play functioned, and we had a healthy Gionta and Cammalleri in the top 6, who knows what would have happened.

Cammalleri was a soft, lazy cancer, and Kostitsyn was a frustration with no hockey sense, but all of a sudden our depth scoring is nothing.

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02-28-2012, 09:07 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by durojean View Post
I was ok with a bad season because of injuries but add a grigorenko to the line up at the neginning of the season and add a grigorenko now and it's not the same thing.

Cammalleri is having a bad season but he's still a hood player... Tanguay had a bad season and he came back.

Just for fun

Cammalleri Plekanec Gionta
Pacioretty Desharnais Cole
Kostitsyn Eller Grigorenko
Moen White Darche

Or

Bourque Plekanec Gionta
Cole Desharnais Pacioretty
Moen Eller Grigorenko...

Grigorenko takes the face off with the remparts but he s really playing the wing and we could have had the option of trading our other center with the most value for a good winger ( probably pleks)

The first line up is a lot better ... All we did this year is create holes in our line up because of a bad year..,

When it happened to the flyets they surely didn't blow up their team like we did this year
To the 2nd lineup (without Cammy) we have ton of cap space to play with, so you can't look at it that way..

IMO its more like...


XXX-Plek-Gio
Patches-DD-Cole
Bourque-Eller-XXX(2012 Pick)


I think what the team is trying to do is fit a combination of size/grit and skill, as opposed to being all skillful players.

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02-28-2012, 09:09 AM
  #90
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All I've heard for the past few months is "get bigger!"

Well... here it is. We're bigger. I personally prefer a skilled team regardless of size. But (most) fans got exactly what they wanted.

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02-28-2012, 09:11 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Playoff stats : 32gp 17g 15a 32pts
We're gonna completely gut the team and not make the playoffs for 5 years anyways so he was useless.

I think guys that are RFA's will be traded this summer, more vets will be moved next year's trade deadline.

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02-28-2012, 09:26 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
To the 2nd lineup (without Cammy) we have ton of cap space to play with, so you can't look at it that way..

IMO its more like...


XXX-Plek-Gio
Patches-DD-Cole
Bourque-Eller-XXX(2012 Pick)


I think what the team is trying to do is fit a combination of size/grit and skill, as opposed to being all skillful players.
Yes but the way I see it...

Kostitsyn was fine with Eller on the third line and our first round draft pick could have played with Plek and Gio... It would have been perfect for the new guy playing with two veteran presence...

Has for the cap space... Gomez isn't in my line up isn't it... That's 7 million right there.

Plus we still could have the depth to make a good trade like maybe Cammalleri while he's playing good or Plekanec for good D.

Like I said we just created hole in a line up that really wasn't that far off.

We don't seem to remember that we were dominating at the beginning of the season... The puck just wasn't going our way.

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02-28-2012, 09:33 AM
  #93
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The bigger the mess, the longer the reconstruction. I can only hope that the next GM (or Gauthier...) will keep on pilling up the 2013 picks. At the end of the 2013-2014 season Gionta, Kaberle, Markov and Gomez* come off the books. By then, we should have an impressive prospect bank (two 1st and five 2nds in the next two years) and significant cap space to spend on the market.

My biggest fear now is that we purchase UFAs for the sake of purchasing UFAs. Sure, go after Suter, but if that doesn't work out, keep your money for next year instead of wasting it on a Sarich.

And let's all remember that tanking next season is more valuable than tanking this year. Sure, it sucks being the laughing stock of the league (well, after the BJs!), but I'll take that over another 15 years of painfully bland hockey aimed at achieving exemplary averageness.

* I expect Gomez to be off the cap sooner than that, either via demotion or amnesty clause.

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02-28-2012, 09:34 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
We're gonna completely gut the team and not make the playoffs for 5 years anyways so he was useless.

I think guys that are RFA's will be traded this summer, more vets will be moved next year's trade deadline.
Other than Palushaj, I don't see any RFAs being shopped. I don't see Palushaj being picked up by anyone either...

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02-28-2012, 09:35 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
Yes but the way I see it...

Kostitsyn was fine with Eller on the third line and our first round draft pick could have played with Plek and Gio... It would have been perfect for the new guy playing with two veteran presence...

Has for the cap space... Gomez isn't in my line up isn't it... That's 7 million right there.

Plus we still could have the depth to make a good trade like maybe Cammalleri while he's playing good or Plekanec for good D.

Like I said we just created hole in a line up that really wasn't that far off.

We don't seem to remember that we were dominating at the beginning of the season... The puck just wasn't going our way.
I know we have cap space, with Gomez gone, but we have even more now with Cammy, maybe to shore our D, some of the money will go to re-signing guys, but ya we have ton of cap space to try to find a replacement..

I agree that with Cammy gone there is a hole on the one of top 2 lines with Plek-Gio,but Cammy wasn't the answer, we had no one to work the boards, and one of Cammy and Gio had to go, and rightful so Cammy was gone, the way I see the lineup shaping up is...

Bourque basically replaced AK on the 3rd line, likely playing with Eller, both are the same, can score 20-25 goals, but can't be relied to bring it night in night out in on our top 6, but can fill in in need of injury, and seeing how Bourque at-least can play on the PK when he isn't scoring, I think it was the right choice.

So our 3rd line should be Bourque-Eller-Mikhail Grigorenko/Filip Forsberg

And a second line of Patches-DD-Cole, I think those are two good lines that have skill and size..

So basically I agree that they created a hole by shipping away Cammy, but he wasn't the answer, I think we need to find that replacement at LW this summer. Maybe we get lucky and win the draft lottery and get Nail Yakupov...

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02-28-2012, 09:36 AM
  #96
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Why is that?
We just traded the only active player on the team who can communicate and translate for him. AK was likely his best friend on the team also because of that. Hopefully Markov returns before the end of the year for that reason.

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02-28-2012, 09:37 AM
  #97
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The thing that troubles me the most is that we seem to be well above average in the league when it comes to drafting but far to often **** up royally when it comes to player development.
As long as that continues we are headed nowhere...
The posters on this board have become masters at finding excuses why such and such player never panned out with the Habs, but take a few steps back and look at the big picture.

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02-28-2012, 09:39 AM
  #98
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The thing that troubles me the most is that we seem to be well above average in the league when it comes to drafting but far to often **** up royally when it comes to player development.
As long as that continues we are headed nowhere...
The posters on this board have become masters at finding excuses why such and such player never panned out with the Habs, but take a few steps back and look at the big picture.
We give up to early on prospects, because the fans just love to make the lives of 22 year olds miserable. If more fans had constructive hobbies, we wouldn't have to worry about kids being ran out of town.

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02-28-2012, 09:41 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
We just traded the only active player on the team who can communicate and translate for him. AK was likely his best friend on the team also because of that. Hopefully Markov returns before the end of the year for that reason.
I highly doubt that he would not want to resign here because of that. He is getting more and more responsibility and with the right contract offer he will be back. Only reason he would not be is if the Habs totally low ball him.

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02-28-2012, 09:43 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by SeriousHabs View Post
Other than Palushaj, I don't see any RFAs being shopped. I don't see Palushaj being picked up by anyone either...
Just generally speaking, I remember this was the same thing were all saying about D'agostini before he was traded apart from his hot streak when he first called up, he was pretty much just like Palushaj, specially that last year, when he had 2 goals/4 points in 40 games, both offensive players, but are useless in a bottom 6 role.

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