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Where does Carter Ashton rank in our organization?

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Old
02-28-2012, 09:12 AM
  #26
topched
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendelstache View Post
Nazem is a bust, get over it.

and the rest are 3rd line players, 2nd line at best.
Bobby Ryan: Bust?
Drafted in 2005
77 points in 70 AHL games
10 points in 23 NHL games
57 points in 08/09 NHL season

Claude Giroux: Bust?
Drafted in 2006
36 points in 38 AHL games
27 points in 44 NHL games
47 points in 09/10 NHL Season

Logan Couture: Bust?
Drafted in 2007
53 points in 42 AHL games
9 points in 25 NHL games
56 points 10/11 NHL Season

Cody Hodgson: Bust?
Drafted in 2008
30 points in 52 AHL games
2 points in 8 NHL games
33 points so far in 11/12 NHL season

Nazem Kadri: Bust?
Drafted in 2009
67 points in 77 AHL games
18 points in 48 NHL games
? points in 12/13 NHL season

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Old
02-28-2012, 09:15 AM
  #27
ACC1224
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Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
As I said, if you want to gauge the quality of future talent in an organization, you take into consideration players that are just beginning their NHL careers (with age/contract status in mind). You can call guys like Gardiner (Nugent-Hopkins, Couturier, Cowen, Kruger, Schenn, etc.) whatever you want, but they're each deemed a 'prospect' in the true definition of the word.

Gardiner has not peeked and is still younger than 95% of the NHL.
Call them Prospects if you like, doesn't mean they are.

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02-28-2012, 09:15 AM
  #28
DirtyDion03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
My top 25:

1. Jake Gardiner
2. Nazem Kadri
3. Joe Colborne
4. Carter Ashton
5. Matt Frattin
6. Jesse Blacker
7. Tyler Biggs
8. Joshua Leivo
9. Brad Ross
10. Stuart Percy
11. Korbinian Holzer
12. Nicolas Deschamps
13. Mark Owuya
14. Jerry D'Amigo
15. Greg McKegg
16. Ben Scrivens
17. Marcel Mueller
18. Tom Nilsson
19. Garret Sparks
20. Sondre Olden
21. Josh Nicholls
22. Jussi Rynnas
23. Tony Cameranesi
24. Daniel Brodin
25. Juraj Mikus
Why do you have Leivo so high but Holzer so low? Holzer is close to making the NHL right now, Leivo is still in the OHL and is still pretty raw. I watch him every week and he's not THAT good.

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02-28-2012, 09:20 AM
  #29
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Behind Kadri, Colborne, and Frattin among forwards. Probably just above Tyler Biggs.

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02-28-2012, 09:21 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Why do you have Leivo so high but Holzer so low? Holzer is close to making the NHL right now, Leivo is still in the OHL and is still pretty raw. I watch him every week and he's not THAT good.
Holzer is 24 years old.
Leivo is 18 years old.

Holzer isn't ranked "low", I have him at 11th (3 spots lower than Leivo).

I feel that Holzer's upside is limited but he fills a necessary role very effectively.

I am high on Leivo's combination of size and skill. I share David Morrison and the scouts' optimism in this prospect.

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Old
02-28-2012, 09:29 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mika Zibanejad View Post
According to Hockeysfuture.com, yes. According to the true definition of 'prospect', no.

To gauge the true quality of organizational depth, you can't punish them for having top notch talent that contribute at the NHL level before most in their age group. Gardiner is still 21 years old and on a two-way contract.

Guys at that age on their entry level contracts are deemed 'prospects' in my books.

Whether they've played 50 games in the NHL this season or 50 games in the AHL.
My take was always that "prospect" was short for "prospective NHLer" (or NFLer, major leaguer, whatever). At this point Gardiner is an NHL player.

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02-28-2012, 09:34 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by gdragon View Post
My take was always that "prospect" was short for "prospective NHLer" (or NFLer, major leaguer, whatever). At this point Gardiner is an NHL player.
I think you've got to look at it in terms of when a full season is played.

How can you call Gardiner an NHL player when he was sent down less than 2 months ago? Would you have called Kadri an NHLer at the end of last season? Is he a prospect now again?

A player is still a prospect until they've played a "full" (60+ game) season.

For example, Kadri is still a prospect, he's played parts of nhl seasons but not a full one yet. He will still be a prospect next season

Gardiner is still a prospect, he has yet to play a full NHL season, but won't be a prospect after this season is over.

Tyler Seguin is not a prospect, he's played a full NHL season last year, and is now in his second full season.

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02-28-2012, 09:41 AM
  #33
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We needed a natural RW prospect badly. After Frattin and Nicholls to a certain degree, it was pretty bare. Biggs is also a great RW prospect but he's a few years away.

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02-28-2012, 09:47 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by iBlaze81 View Post
Over rated already
Took less than a day.

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02-28-2012, 09:49 AM
  #35
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I found it interesting that when I checked the 2009 North American final draft rankings, Ashton was actually ranked ahead of Kadri.

A quick Youtube tour shows him holding his own in a scrap against Gudbranson, winning a couple of others and scoring a beautiful goal against Russia in the WJC final.

I think we're looking at something like this:

Colborne
Kadri
Ashton
Frattin

(Gardiner is not a prospect at this point. But if you're including him, he's #1)

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02-28-2012, 09:54 AM
  #36
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Our prospects are so overrated!

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02-28-2012, 09:56 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by dream team43 View Post
Our prospects are so overrated!
How do you over-rate a prospect? No one is calling him a future Cam Neely or anything?

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02-28-2012, 09:58 AM
  #38
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Similar level prospect as Colborne, IMO.

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02-28-2012, 09:59 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
How do you over-rate a prospect? No one is calling him a future Cam Neely or anything?
I think he means in general, the consensus opinion of Leafs fans towards their prospects is quite different than the league's perception.

Colborne is Joe Thornton 2.0.
Kadri is Claude Giroux 2.0.
Gardiner is Duncan Keith 2.0.
Biggs is David Backes 2.0.
Percy is Duncan Keith 3.0

etc. etc.

I like Blacker, though. Could be a decent Colaicovo 2.0.

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02-28-2012, 10:01 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Slick View Post
Gardiner
Ashton
Colborne
Frattin
Kadri

Sorry guys, I just don't see Kadri as higher than any of those guys. One on one, and either of those guys would kill Kadri. Just because Kadri has a few nice dangles doesnt mean he is complete. Physically, not even close to those guys. Not a power forward, what is he?

Kadri is Johnny Dangles 2.0

Matter of time before most realize he is a flop.

sorry for bubble bursting.
Wow show me your scouting credentials please.

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02-28-2012, 10:03 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
I think he means in general, the consensus opinion of Leafs fans towards their prospects is quite different than the league's perception.

Colborne is Joe Thornton 2.0.
Kadri is Claude Giroux 2.0.
Gardiner is Duncan Keith 2.0.
Biggs is David Backes 2.0.
Percy is Duncan Keith 3.0

etc. etc.

I like Blacker, though. Could be a decent Colaicovo 2.0.
What is the Leagues perception of these Players?

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02-28-2012, 10:03 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
How do you over-rate a prospect? No one is calling him a future Cam Neely or anything?
People around here put them on a pedistle, the Leafs are good at making them seem like there amazing to delusional fans

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02-28-2012, 10:04 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
What is the Leagues perception of these Players?
More realistic.

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02-28-2012, 10:05 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
More realistic.
Examples?

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02-28-2012, 10:05 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Examples?
Joe Colborne not being the next Joe Thornton.

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02-28-2012, 10:06 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
Joe Colborne not being the next Joe Thornton.
Who does the League feel he could turn out like?

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Old
02-28-2012, 10:07 AM
  #47
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1. Kadri
2. Colborne/Ashton

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02-28-2012, 10:08 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
How do you over-rate a prospect? No one is calling him a future Cam Neely or anything?
Saw this in another thread, not sure who the reviewer is but

Quote:
15. Carter Ashton – Saskatoon, SK – 6’4″ – 212 lbs – WHL – Lethbridge – RW
One-Timer: The son of former NHLer, Brent Ashton, who played 2 games shy of 1000 in the NHL, Carter has the “hockey gene” embedded. To go with that, he has a great physical frame (6’4”-ish, 210 lbs-ish) with which to build on. The budding 2-way power forward out of the “Dub” has seen his stock rocket as this season went on. The physical forward doesn’t shy away from the rough stuff and established himself as a 30-goal scorer this year. He also skates well and has smooth “hockey hands”. He has great character and quite versatile as well. As noted below he was the VO-2 Max “Champ” highlighting his super endurance level. Although some current draft eligible prospects are at a higher level right now, this ranking is based on the immense potential Ashton possesses. For the same reason, against many ”expert” rankings, I have Ashton ahead of Kassian for the top ranked true power forward.
NHL Player(s) Comparison: Mike Knuble, Ryan Malone, Kevin Stevens, Cam Neely
Scouting Combine Performance:
• Gare Joyce reported: “The best VO 2 max numbers were posted by Lethbridge’s Carter Ashton, the only prospect to last the 17-minute duration.”

International Tournaments: Ashton registered 3 points in 4 games for Canada at the 2008 Ivan Hlinka Memorial Tournament in Canada’s gold medal win. He also notched 1 goal and added 5 assists in 6 games for Team West at the 2008 World Under-17 Hockey Challenge.
ETA = 2 to 3 years
Risk-Reward Analysis: Risk = 2.5/5 Reward = 4.5/5
NHL Potential: 1st or 2nd line goal-scoring power forward
Fantasy Hockey Potential: Offensive = 8.5/10 Defensive = 8/10

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02-28-2012, 10:08 AM
  #49
ThreeHundred
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
I think he means in general, the consensus opinion of Leafs fans towards their prospects is quite different than the league's perception.

Colborne is Joe Thornton 2.0.
Kadri is Claude Giroux 2.0.
Gardiner is Duncan Keith 2.0.
Biggs is David Backes 2.0.
Percy is Duncan Keith 3.0

etc. etc.

I like Blacker, though. Could be a decent Colaicovo 2.0.
Yeah see, you don't got those blinders on that some do..

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02-28-2012, 10:08 AM
  #50
DirtyDion03
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Saw this in another thread, not sure who the reviewer is but
I saw that as well. That is not a Leafs fan review of him. That is a scouts. Unfair to label that as just a Leafs fan POV.

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