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Does a pair of $600 skates make THAT MUCH of a difference then a $200 pair

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Old
02-25-2012, 06:29 PM
  #26
cptjeff
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Originally Posted by Puckclektr View Post
this. And like someone said, spend the money on skating lessons.
Do not buy a pair of skates under $100, and you don't really need to pay for a pair of skates over $250.
Many people say the main reason is that they are lighter, which is pretty retarted. You have a 50lb leg and you think that a handful of grams is going to make a difference.
The weight does make a difference- strap an ankle weight on and see if that affects things. So does a heavier skate, it's just a matter of degree. Not to mention that weight has more of an affect the farther it is from the force moving it- which is why you see so many manufacturers taking weight out of the steel these days. Even within the skate, it makes a difference. For an illustration, go for a run (or a bike, which uses similar muscles) with one ankle weight on your ankle and one on your thigh. See which leg gets tired faster.

The weight difference is also much more dramatic than you might imagine- I've shown my skates to people who haven't encountered a top end skate before, and the first thing people comment on is how light they are. The difference is pretty dramatic.

Of course, that's not the only difference. Top end skates are stiffer, leading to better energy transfer (more of the energy you put in your stride goes into the ice rather than into bending the boot), more protective, and most these days are platforms for the maker's newest R&D stuff. Easton skates, for example, have had for a while now a one piece composite body designed to act like a directional spring. It won't budge to bend the side of the skate over, so it transfers power, but loads up energy bending forward, which gives you just a little more power in your stride. Bauer is now doing something similar in the total ones. Bauer also developed a new composite material that forms to the shape of the foot- in most skates, it's just foams and plastics doing the molding.

So on and so forth. And of course, all the other bits and pieces are nicer- better tongues, strong, wicking and fast drying liners, high quality steel that gets sharper and stays sharper longer...

A beginning skater is going to notice virtually none of these things. But an advanced one will notice most all of them.

The higher up you go, the less marginal value you get, but whether that's worth it to you is a matter of your ability and your budget. And you don't necessarily have to pay retail for a pair of top end skates. I got mine for $300 as a previous year's model. Not as cutting edge as the brand new ones, but hey, I'm not a pro, just a guy who loves to play and likes having gear that matches my ability.

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02-25-2012, 07:49 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
The weight does make a difference- strap an ankle weight on and see if that affects things. So does a heavier skate, it's just a matter of degree. Not to mention that weight has more of an affect the farther it is from the force moving it- which is why you see so many manufacturers taking weight out of the steel these days. Even within the skate, it makes a difference. For an illustration, go for a run (or a bike, which uses similar muscles) with one ankle weight on your ankle and one on your thigh. See which leg gets tired faster.

The weight difference is also much more dramatic than you might imagine- I've shown my skates to people who haven't encountered a top end skate before, and the first thing people comment on is how light they are. The difference is pretty dramatic.

Of course, that's not the only difference. Top end skates are stiffer, leading to better energy transfer (more of the energy you put in your stride goes into the ice rather than into bending the boot), more protective, and most these days are platforms for the maker's newest R&D stuff. Easton skates, for example, have had for a while now a one piece composite body designed to act like a directional spring. It won't budge to bend the side of the skate over, so it transfers power, but loads up energy bending forward, which gives you just a little more power in your stride. Bauer is now doing something similar in the total ones. Bauer also developed a new composite material that forms to the shape of the foot- in most skates, it's just foams and plastics doing the molding.

So on and so forth. And of course, all the other bits and pieces are nicer- better tongues, strong, wicking and fast drying liners, high quality steel that gets sharper and stays sharper longer...

A beginning skater is going to notice virtually none of these things. But an advanced one will notice most all of them.

The higher up you go, the less marginal value you get, but whether that's worth it to you is a matter of your ability and your budget. And you don't necessarily have to pay retail for a pair of top end skates. I got mine for $300 as a previous year's model. Not as cutting edge as the brand new ones, but hey, I'm not a pro, just a guy who loves to play and likes having gear that matches my ability.
yes the weight makes a difference, but when those pro's are strapping on 11k shinpads, 7k pro elbows, pro level gloves...

I dunno whether the skate weight is as significant... but everything counts

I think the composite boot is way stiffer, is way lighter than older boot deisgns, and just overall has better energy transfer

though I wouldn't go back to an old pair of Tacks... I'd say since the One90 boot, the Easton Synergy SE800's... they top line boots have been compariable since

The Graf 700 series is still widly used, though its far from the carbon composites that are in my 9k's or other manufactutorers and yet it works

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02-25-2012, 10:58 PM
  #28
Lonny Bohonos
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Skate weight most definitely counts. Even at the gram level.

A gram at the end of your legs "weighs" more than a gram at the top of your legs.

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02-25-2012, 11:16 PM
  #29
AIREAYE
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You will never notice the difference in weight at that level.

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02-25-2012, 11:22 PM
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I'll be in the market for a pair of new skates soon and I'm going to look into Bauer, depending on the fit.

What is the difference between the Vapor and Supreme series?

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02-25-2012, 11:33 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Skate weight most definitely counts. Even at the gram level.

A gram at the end of your legs "weighs" more than a gram at the top of your legs.
I don't know if it's the same thing as unsprung weight... But my outdoor skates are heavier, but I think I notice wearing shoulder pads the most and then the weight of my pants more

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02-26-2012, 12:27 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by SpringfieldSkins View Post
I'll be in the market for a pair of new skates soon and I'm going to look into Bauer, depending on the fit.

What is the difference between the Vapor and Supreme series?
One is silver and one is black.

Seriously though, the Supremes are a bit bigger and deeper. That's probably about the extent of it. They feed you a BS line about Supremes being for power skaters and Vapor being for agility but there's no real glaring differences except the fit.

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02-26-2012, 01:08 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringfieldSkins View Post
I'll be in the market for a pair of new skates soon and I'm going to look into Bauer, depending on the fit.

What is the difference between the Vapor and Supreme series?
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1099867

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02-26-2012, 01:45 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Pedagogue View Post
If you can skate, then a top level skate does make a difference. If you can't skate do not waste your money. Also, if you buy a top level skate and don't play enough you'll have a hell of a time breaking them in. I was skating in Graf 605's I then moved up to 705's I play an average of 2 times a week all year round. I had the skates baked twice and punched out multiple times. 705's are stiff (compared to 605's). It's only after 6 months of using them that they are finally broken in.
I had the same experience with a pair of 703s, brutal break in period (over 6 months), multiple bakes, punches, etc....and then realized that I was in the wrong Graf model for my foot shape. Just switched to a 705 and they were fantastic right from the start. You might make sure that the 705s are really the right model for your foot.

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02-26-2012, 02:44 PM
  #35
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I can not stress enough to people how good those nhl team equipment sales are for players on a budget.
People look at me like I'm crazy when I talk about it sometimes.
I love these sales. The Warrior Fedoruk gloves I got were brand new. The Bauer helmet I got was slightly used by Moore, but if you didnt look at the visor, you would never have known. Most of the time, the main pieces are really good, some other stuff (skates) do show some wear and tear. But who cares, the prices are amaamamamamamazing

I'm secretly hoping that the Lightning send off a ton of players tomorrow so they might have another sale soon, hahaha.

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02-26-2012, 03:08 PM
  #36
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skates dont mean anything its the person using em, unless they are rec skates

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02-27-2012, 09:10 PM
  #37
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Good stuff guys. I appreciate it. My main reason for asking the question is because I am an okay skater but I can still not seem to get down the stop. I do not know what my problem is. If I had to put a finger on it, it is I am probably afraid of throwing my weight to forward and get seriously injured at age 43.

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02-27-2012, 09:42 PM
  #38
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In my experience they just last longer and retain their stiffness longer. Like most things you either pay up front or later.

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02-27-2012, 10:08 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobyandmisty View Post
Good stuff guys. I appreciate it. My main reason for asking the question is because I am an okay skater but I can still not seem to get down the stop. I do not know what my problem is. If I had to put a finger on it, it is I am probably afraid of throwing my weight to forward and get seriously injured at age 43.
A $700.00 skate will not help you figure out how to stop but Figure skating lessons might.

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02-27-2012, 10:18 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by tobyandmisty View Post
Good stuff guys. I appreciate it. My main reason for asking the question is because I am an okay skater but I can still not seem to get down the stop. I do not know what my problem is. If I had to put a finger on it, it is I am probably afraid of throwing my weight to forward and get seriously injured at age 43.
No offense, but even a B skater can stop. Better skates won't help you stop. Just keep trying.

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02-28-2012, 11:12 AM
  #41
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My two cents...
I recently started taking power skating lessons. I too have difficulty stopping (to my left) but also the instructor noticed i was skating on the inside edge of my left skate. If I thought about it I could force myself to keep upright if you will on that leg.

In relation to the original question I had a $175-$200 pair of skates. I mentioned to the instructor that my son had a pair of very good skates and we are about the same size foot. I tried his skates and they made a world of difference for me.

I think though that the power skating lessons would make the biggest difference of the two.

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02-28-2012, 11:25 AM
  #42
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I've been a pretty good skater (one of the best skaters on my D-level team), have no issues with stopping on either side, transitions (forward -> backward, backward -> forward), crossing over (backward and forward). But I've been using cheapo skates (Bauer Silver Edition) since I started playing hockey, and I've been mostly happy with them as long as the blade is sharp enough that I don't scrape instead of cut into the ice.

I've tried a few different pairs of rental skates (I know, bad frame of reference) that have cut better with more stability into the ice. Another time, I borrowed a pair of skates from a friend when I forgot to bring my skates one time and also found those skates to have much better stability on the ice than my skates (also, not particularly expensive skates). Does this sound like I might be reaching the limit of my current skates?

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02-28-2012, 12:06 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Niagaradad View Post
My two cents...
I recently started taking power skating lessons. I too have difficulty stopping (to my left) but also the instructor noticed i was skating on the inside edge of my left skate. If I thought about it I could force myself to keep upright if you will on that leg.

In relation to the original question I had a $175-$200 pair of skates. I mentioned to the instructor that my son had a pair of very good skates and we are about the same size foot. I tried his skates and they made a world of difference for me.

I think though that the power skating lessons would make the biggest difference of the two.
I'm curious how they made a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stories View Post
I've been a pretty good skater (one of the best skaters on my D-level team), have no issues with stopping on either side, transitions (forward -> backward, backward -> forward), crossing over (backward and forward). But I've been using cheapo skates (Bauer Silver Edition) since I started playing hockey, and I've been mostly happy with them as long as the blade is sharp enough that I don't scrape instead of cut into the ice.

I've tried a few different pairs of rental skates (I know, bad frame of reference) that have cut better with more stability into the ice. Another time, I borrowed a pair of skates from a friend when I forgot to bring my skates one time and also found those skates to have much better stability on the ice than my skates (also, not particularly expensive skates). Does this sound like I might be reaching the limit of my current skates?
When you say stability, what do you mean? I would definitely upgrade from the Silver Edition, but you don't need to go crazy and buy TotalOnes.

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02-28-2012, 12:19 PM
  #44
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I've actually had issues with skates in the past that prevented me from stopping and/or turning:

- $70 skates from the sports store that went soft after two months of play. Literally the outsole and boot would bend and twist under my body, causing me to lose an edge.

- Vapors that were too wide in the heel/ankle causing my foot to twist inside the boot so I couldn't get a solid edge.

Bare minimum, spend $150 on skates that fit your feet as close to perfect as possible, especially in the heel/ankle area. Below that, they could be deforming. And if you spend $1000 on skates that don't fit, they will screw you up worse than $150 skates that fit great.

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02-28-2012, 12:29 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ryangib View Post
I can not stress enough to people how good those nhl team equipment sales are for players on a budget.
People look at me like I'm crazy when I talk about it sometimes.
+1
I picked up a pair Nike Bauer Supreme One95 boots (brand new) for $50. Then I got the blade holders and runners for free.

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02-28-2012, 12:43 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Stories View Post
I've been a pretty good skater (one of the best skaters on my D-level team), have no issues with stopping on either side, transitions (forward -> backward, backward -> forward), crossing over (backward and forward). But I've been using cheapo skates (Bauer Silver Edition) since I started playing hockey, and I've been mostly happy with them as long as the blade is sharp enough that I don't scrape instead of cut into the ice.

I've tried a few different pairs of rental skates (I know, bad frame of reference) that have cut better with more stability into the ice. Another time, I borrowed a pair of skates from a friend when I forgot to bring my skates one time and also found those skates to have much better stability on the ice than my skates (also, not particularly expensive skates). Does this sound like I might be reaching the limit of my current skates?
You might check you blade profile. My last set of steel had been ground down so much that I was down to a 7-8' radius and they felt 'unstable'. Turned fantastic, but not very stable. New steel, 9' radius and they were way more stable.

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02-28-2012, 10:42 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by tobyandmisty View Post
Good stuff guys. I appreciate it. My main reason for asking the question is because I am an okay skater but I can still not seem to get down the stop. I do not know what my problem is. If I had to put a finger on it, it is I am probably afraid of throwing my weight to forward and get seriously injured at age 43.
Here's what it took me a while to figure out about stopping:

When you stop, your front skate should be almost perpendicular to the ice. Usually when people are learning to stop they think they have to dig in at a steep angle. That is totally incorrect. Your front skate should be almost straight up and down, with just a slight angle. That way your inside blade can scrape across the surface of the ice, slowing you down without digging in and throwing you forward.

EDIT:

I just upgraded from a $200 pair (Easton SE 10s) to a $350 pair (Easton EQ40s). Bought 'em and baked 'em tonight, and I'll play on them Friday. Can't wait!

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02-28-2012, 11:37 PM
  #48
AIREAYE
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Originally Posted by Devil Dancer View Post
Here's what it took me a while to figure out about stopping:

When you stop, your front skate should be almost perpendicular to the ice. Usually when people are learning to stop they think they have to dig in at a steep angle. That is totally incorrect. Your front skate should be almost straight up and down, with just a slight angle. That way your inside blade can scrape across the surface of the ice, slowing you down without digging in and throwing you forward.

EDIT:

I just upgraded from a $200 pair (Easton SE 10s) to a $350 pair (Easton EQ40s). Bought 'em and baked 'em tonight, and I'll play on them Friday. Can't wait!
While it may be the end result, I don't think anyone stops like that...
http://www.photographersdirect.com/b...imageid=555394

Not to be a buzzkill either, but the EQ40 isn't that much of an upgrade over the SE10s, but enjoy nonetheless! Always fun using new gear.

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02-28-2012, 11:51 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by AIREAYE View Post
While it may be the end result, I don't think anyone stops like that...
http://www.photographersdirect.com/b...imageid=555394
that would be the end result after a lot of practice and ice time.

Starting out, the blades should be perpendicular, then as you get more comfortable and stronger with the technique then you get into a deeper angle for faster stops.

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02-29-2012, 12:07 AM
  #50
AIREAYE
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Originally Posted by nullterm View Post
that would be the end result after a lot of practice and ice time.

Starting out, the blades should be perpendicular, then as you get more comfortable and stronger with the technique then you get into a deeper angle for faster stops.
okay, so your advice is for beginners, got it

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