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Offseason? You want to talk about the offseason?

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Old
02-28-2012, 11:53 AM
  #176
BuddyMcCormick
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
I doubt it.

Koivu, Granlund, Heatley, Setoguchi, Palmieri, Cullen, and potentially Larsson, Philips, Coyle, or Zucker.

Not to mention Bouchard is still here and Lats may be qualified.

And before we worry about "depth" for injuries, those new prospects are better forwards than anyone we've had in Houston since the lockout ever.
FIFY

I've always wondered... Let's say we strike out on Suter. Yes, I know, this is only in the realm of imagination. Do we go for 2 Defensemen that may not be as good? Just so it's clear as to what I'm suggesting:
Suter's a 10 that we would have to give $8/year to, if that falls through do we grab two 6-8's that we would have to pay $4-5/yr for?

Our defense might not have as much "potential" or have a higher ceiling but there my be more consistency with getting 2 good players rather than 1 great player. Of course, this is all in theory if we miss out on Suter which will all know won't happen.

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02-28-2012, 11:57 AM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyMcCormick View Post
FIFY

I've always wondered... Let's say we strike out on Suter. Yes, I know, this is only in the realm of imagination. Do we go for 2 Defensemen that may not be as good? Just so it's clear as to what I'm suggesting:
Suter's a 10 that we would have to give $8/year to, if that falls through do we grab two 6-8's that we would have to pay $4-5/yr for?

Our defense might not have as much "potential" or have a higher ceiling but there my be more consistency with getting 2 good players rather than 1 great player. Of course, this is all in theory if we miss out on Suter which will all know won't happen.
Possibly. Without tossing any names out there, I could see one at $4.5m and one at $3m (or something like that).

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02-28-2012, 12:22 PM
  #178
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I say no. Get the big fish or go home. You don't want two overpaid guys with flaws when you're trying to build a strong defense. You'll still be looking for that #1 guy at the end of the day.

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02-28-2012, 12:22 PM
  #179
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I think the Gilbert-Schultz swap signals that we won't get more than 1 top-4 Dman.

If we miss on Suter, would signing Carle AND Wideman help us? Would a top-5 of Carle, Wideman, Gilbert, Scandella, and Spurgeon be decent or would it just be too much offensive and not enough defense? I think the later.

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02-28-2012, 12:26 PM
  #180
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No, like I said, you want that #1 or nothing.

Scandella, Spurgeon, Gilbert can play second pairing. Brodin likely will be a top pairing guy before the end of the year but won't drop below second pairing. Adding two more second pairing guys does not make the team better long-term.

Especially because nobody in UFA signs a 1-year deal. They will want 4+ years, and then you've got another Nick Schultz on the third pairing.

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02-28-2012, 12:42 PM
  #181
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Wouldn't be surprised to see Fletcher swing a few times over the next 1.5 years to land a #1 Dman for when our young forwards start making an impact. Suter this summer. Weber maybe by trade or when he hits UFA. Maybe Whitney or Edler or somebody else I can't think of in the summer of 2013.

In his intereview with Russo, he pointed out the Campbell signing in Chicago, when everybody thought that signing was too earlier, and Fletcher was 100% right in his assessment. Sign UFA before you peak, and they'll grow with the team.

The UFA signings that teams regret are ones where the team core passed their peak and start to decline, or where teams sign a guy and then expect him to fill a larger role than what he actually can do.

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02-28-2012, 12:48 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
Wouldn't be surprised to see Fletcher swing a few times over the next 1.5 years to land a #1 Dman for when our young forwards start making an impact. Suter this summer. Weber maybe by trade or when he hits UFA. Maybe Whitney or Edler or somebody else I can't think of in the summer of 2013.

In his intereview with Russo, he pointed out the Campbell signing in Chicago, when everybody thought that signing was too earlier, and Fletcher was 100% right in his assessment. Sign UFA before you peak, and they'll grow with the team.

The UFA signings that teams regret are ones where the team core passed their peak and start to decline, or where teams sign a guy and then expect him to fill a larger role than what he actually can do.
And to continue the Chicago parallels, the Campbell deal was viewed as over-payment by many, and sure he was paid a lot, but he was an important part of that team.
In much the same way I would be perfectly fine with 'overpaying' for a Suter/Weber type (although really their value is pretty high, hard to pay more than that), because they would be so valuable to our team. A workhorse that can play >25 minutes a night, put up 40 pts and be a + at the end of the year would be so helpful.

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02-28-2012, 12:54 PM
  #183
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yeah because he is taking hometown discount here
The hometown discount comment is directed at New Jersey's financial problems. The Wild are capable of paying him a full salary, New Jersey's flirting with bankruptcy and have bottom 20% attendance.

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02-28-2012, 01:06 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by BuddyMcCormick View Post
FIFY

I've always wondered... Let's say we strike out on Suter. Yes, I know, this is only in the realm of imagination. Do we go for 2 Defensemen that may not be as good? Just so it's clear as to what I'm suggesting:
Suter's a 10 that we would have to give $8/year to, if that falls through do we grab two 6-8's that we would have to pay $4-5/yr for?

Our defense might not have as much "potential" or have a higher ceiling but there my be more consistency with getting 2 good players rather than 1 great player. Of course, this is all in theory if we miss out on Suter which will all know won't happen.
I wouldn't be opposed to signing one d-man for 3-5M on a 3-4 year deal when we miss out on Suter. The 2nd guy should be a depth guy either way, whether or not it would be even a 1-way contract would be debatable. We need improvement, can't expect anything from Brodin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squidz View Post
No team should ever have 23 AHL players on their roster. Ever. At no point is that a good idea. Houston has and will continue to have at least 5 players of their own on the roster, and it's more likely to be at least 7.

You left off Bouchard from the NHL roster. If he's not good to go, we'll carry 22 NHL players instead of 23 (if we were ever intending to carry 23 players in the first place, we usually carry 21-22 and only have 1-2 scratches).

You don't list Hackett who is under contract and will be either in the NHL or AHL. Assume for the moment he's in Houston.

You left off Krupp, who may continue to rot in Europe, but could play in Houston as well.

So that means we have 13 AHL players (9 + Phillips/Larsson/Bulmer + Hackett) need 5-7 more and have 13 (14 if Brodin plays) NHL players needing 10 (9 if Brodin plays) more. As we're at 27 (28 if Brodin plays) contracts, that will be an additional 15-17 spots, which brings us to 45/50. That's 5 open contract spots. Last season, the largest number of open contract spots at the point listed out to was 46/50 in Chicago. That's to say that we're currently sitting at fewer contracts than the team that had the fewest last year.
We had 20+ guys signed to play in Houston at the start of this season. Though I do agree, contracts aren't a problem. Not with all the expiring ones.

11-12 AHL listing(22-25 depending on who you count)
F - Rau, Almond, Disalvatore, Ortmeyer, Peters, McMillan, McIntyre, Foucault, Fontaine, Kassian, Broda, Wellman, Palmer, Taffe
D - Bagnall, Prosser, Penner, Cuma, Genoway, Medvec, (Fredheim/Scandella)
G - Hackett, Endras/Kuemper

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02-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #185
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And to continue the Chicago parallels, the Campbell deal was viewed as over-payment by many, and sure he was paid a lot, but he was an important part of that team.
In much the same way I would be perfectly fine with 'overpaying' for a Suter/Weber type (although really their value is pretty high, hard to pay more than that), because they would be so valuable to our team. A workhorse that can play >25 minutes a night, put up 40 pts and be a + at the end of the year would be so helpful.
People complained about Campbell at the time, but I know a lot of Hawks fans and they really, really, really wish they hadn't traded away Campbell. (That and wishing they signed somebody to fill Sopel's spot).

The blueline went to complete crap because Hjarm sucked without Campbell and so they instantly lost their 2nd pairing. Pressure was then on Keith to carry the load, and he took a step back. Seabrook had some success pick-up the offensive slack, but then he lost other parts of his game. It all came apart.

I'm hoping a Suter will have a similiar effect on the Wild.

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02-28-2012, 01:25 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
People complained about Campbell at the time, but I know a lot of Hawks fans and they really, really, really wish they hadn't traded away Campbell. (That and wishing they signed somebody to fill Sopel's spot).

The blueline went to complete crap because Hjarm sucked without Campbell and so they instantly lost their 2nd pairing. Pressure was then on Keith to carry the load, and he took a step back. Seabrook had some success pick-up the offensive slack, but then he lost other parts of his game. It all came apart.

I'm hoping a Suter will have a similiar effect on the Wild.
And now look at Florida's D. It's not a coincidence.

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02-28-2012, 07:14 PM
  #187
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Post-deadline thoughts:

Re-sign:
Latendresse - qualify/offer arbitration, will put $3M as the number(1-year obviously).
Johnson - qualify, 1 year ~600k(1-way)
Kassian - qualify, 1 year ~550k(1-way)
Falk - qualify, 660k(1-way)

Palmieri - qualify, ~570k(should be a 2-way)
Kampfer - qualify, ~725k(2-way)
Genoway - qualify, ~950k(2-way)
Almond - qualify, ~670k(2-way)
McMillan - qualify, ~600k(2-way)
McIntyre - qualify, ~670k(2-way)
Palmer - qualify, ~775k(2-way)
Rau - qualify, ~600k(2-way)
Keep in mind many of these players will be subject to waivers next season.

Let go:
Veilleux
Foster
Christensen
Lundin
Harding

Disalvatore
Taffe
Ortmeyer
Penner
Endras
Fredheim

Pro additions:
Granlund(continuing using Filatov's contract, 2.195M cap-hit 1.3M bonuses)
Lorenz(using Medvec as an example, 2 years @ 570k)
Zucker(3 years, ~1M)
Coyle(3 years, ~1M)
Phillips(already signed, 1M)
Larsson(already signed, 900k)
Bulmer(signed, 900k)

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Mikael Granlund ($2.195m) / Mikko Koivu ($6.750m) / Dany Heatley ($7.500m)
Pierre-Marc Bouchard ($4.080m) / Matt Cullen ($3.500m) / Devin Setoguchi ($3.000m)
Guillaume Latendresse ($3.000m) / Kyle Brodziak ($2.833m) / Nick Johnson ($0.600m)
Matt Kassian ($0.550m) / Darroll Powe ($1.066m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($1.400m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marco Scandella ($0.845m) / Jared Spurgeon ($0.526m)
Justin Falk ($0.660m) / Nate Prosser ($0.825m)
/ Tom Gilbert ($4.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Niklas Backstrom ($6.000m) / Matthew Hackett ($0.900m)

BUYOUTS: Mark Parrish ($0.927m) / Cam Barker ($0.541m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $51,701,944; BONUSES: $1,637,500
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $12,598,056

AHL/competing for 1-3 forward spots:
Zucker
Coyle
Phillips
Larsson
Almond
Fontaine
McIntyre
McMillan
Bulmer
Foucault
Broda
Palmer
Rau
Palmieri

AHL/Competing for 1 depth D spot
Cuma
Kampfer
Genoway
Bagnall
Lorenz
Medvec
Jobke

Kuemper

ECHL/Europe
Caron
Krupp
Gustafsson(ELC and assuming he prefers, loan to SEL)


Puts us at 43 contracts. Gotta assume we'll sign another goalie if Gustafsson stays in Europe, and 2 d-men with NHL experience. Puts us at 46 excluding college additions, though the goalie could be one.
Houston would lack a true veteran up front but theres lots of guys with 2-3 years AHL experience in their mid-20s. Bagnall on defense as the captain like he was in Manchester. Ortmeyer was on an AHL contract before we signed him mid-season last year so there are going to be options that way(AHL contract).
Expecting us to want to be at 48 excluding Brodin, so that leaves 2 spots for college(or CHL guys without ELC slides) free agents with those guys all returning. Not terrible, but perhaps 1-2 of those RFA forwards I have returning do not, though I feel they're all worthy of a qualifying offer.


Last edited by saywut: 02-28-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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02-28-2012, 07:21 PM
  #188
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@saywut

Minor quibble, I can't see Granlund starting (or spending much of) the year on the first line. Yeo likes to match top line against top line, and he won't want a rookie up there if he doesn't need it. I'd swap his spot with Butch's.

I have some other disagreements, but those can wait for a different post.

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02-28-2012, 07:25 PM
  #189
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Isn't Lats' QO 2.5 mil? I can't see us paying more than that for him, if he's retained.

Also is the cap projected to go up next year?

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02-28-2012, 07:28 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by DC2600 View Post
Isn't Lats' QO 2.5 mil? I can't see us paying more than that for him, if he's retained.

Also is the cap projected to go up next year?
Barring the effects of a new HRR split in the CBA, the cap will go up approximately $7MM. Remember, under current rules, the cap floor is $16MM less than the cap. We need to spend at least $53MM under current rules for next season.

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02-28-2012, 07:30 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
@saywut

Minor quibble, I can't see Granlund starting (or spending much of) the year on the first line. Yeo likes to match top line against top line, and he won't want a rookie up there if he doesn't need it. I'd swap his spot with Butch's.

I have some other disagreements, but those can wait for a different post.
Well Bouchard's gotta be healthy before any line combos with him have any validity. That line looked good together before Bouchard went down.

If Bouchard's a no-go, without a doubt I'd have Granlund on the 2nd line. Just Bouchard's had success there and the speed to compliment those players.

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03-06-2012, 01:31 PM
  #192
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So here's my question. We have a ton of RFA's this upcoming off-season as well as a ton of guys coming in on ELC's. Breaking it down it looks like we will have to let some key guys from this year go via FA or trade a couple guys who have term still left on their contract.

Signed for next season we have(Forwards) : Koivu, Brodziak, Cullen, Clutterbuck, Powe, Setoguichi, Heatley, Bouchard(?). Thats 8 forwards including Bouchard. 3C, 3RW, 2LW.
Heatley-Koivu-Setoguichi
Bouchard-Cullen-?
?-Brodziak-Clutterbuck
Powe-?-?

UFA we have: Christiansen, Ortmeyer, Peters, Veilleux, Taffe, and Dislavitore. 2C, 2RW, 2LW

RFA we have: Palmeiri, Johnson, Latendresse, Rau, Kassian, MacIntyre, Palmer, Almond, MacMillan. 4RW, 1LW, 4C

ELC we have: Coyle, Phillips, Bulmer, Larsson, and I'll assume Zucker, Granlund

Now the guys in bold are the ones who I believe have a shot at the NHL roster/a look at being resigned for a NHL spot.

That leaves us at with an abundance of NHL quality forwards. Just at RW we have Setoguichi, Latendresse, Palmieri, Johnson, Clutterbuck, (5)

At center we have Koivu, Granlund, Cullen, Brodziak, Larsson, Phillips,Almond/MacIntyre/Macmillan (7)

At LW we have Bulmer, Heatley, Veilluex, Granlund, Bouchard, Kassian,Powe (7)

So this leaves me with the question of who do we bring back? You'd almost have to assume Granlund, Bulmer make the team as ELC's and we most likely bring back at least 2 of Palmeiri, Johnson, Latendresse as well as Kassian. But with the guys already signed for next year, assuming PMB is healthy, we have 1 top 6 spot and 3 bottom 6 spots. So who goes where? Who do resign? Who do let go? Who do we trade?

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03-06-2012, 01:41 PM
  #193
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In my opinion we should resign all of Lats, Palmeiri, and Johnson. We let all the UFA's walk including Veilluex. We trade Cullen at the draft if its possible and take offers for Clutterbuck. Granlund and Bulmer make the team.

Bouchard-Koivu-Setoguichi
Heatley-Granlund-Latendresse
Bulmer-Brodziak-Palmeiri
Clutterbuck-Powe-Johnson

I also think we should make a serious run at Parise, but our first choice should be Suter. IF we wind up getting Parise we try and deal PMB and if we can't send Bulmer to Houston and let Setoguichi take his spot on the 3rd line.

Parise-Koivu-PMB
Heatley-Granlund-Latendresse
Setoguichi-Brodziak-Palmieri
Clutterbuck-Powe-Johnson

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03-06-2012, 01:42 PM
  #194
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Heatley - Koivu - Lats/Palmieri/Coyle/Phillips
Granlund/Lats - Cullen/Granlund - Setoguchi
Cullen/Larsson/Palmieri - Brodziak - Clutterbuck
Powe/Veillieux - Powe/somebody else - Johnson

Looks pretty scrambled, and it is, but essentially my line-up depends on two main things:
1. Whether Latendresse is retained and healthy and,
2. Whether Granlund plays C or W

Everything else falls in line behind them.

Lats is healthy/Granlund plays W
Lats = #1RW
Granlund = #2 LW
Cullen = #2 C
Larsson/Palmieri = #3 LW

Lats is healthy/Granlund plays C
Palmieri/Coyle/Phillips = #1 RW
Lats = #2 LW
Granlund = #2 C
Cullen = #3 LW

Lats is unhealthy/Granlund plays W
Palmieri/Coyle/Phillips = #1 RW
Granlund = #2 LW
Cullen = #2 C
Larsson/Palmieri = #3LW


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03-22-2012, 08:58 PM
  #195
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what does everyone think of saku koivu and jason blake for next year? i know they're both at the end of their carrers but i think they could fit well. they also both have connections to minnesota with obviously saku and mikko being brothers, maybe saku wants to finnish his career with his little bro, and with granlund coming in another great finn to help mentor him couldnt hurt. jason blake is from moorhead maybe he wants to finnish his career in his home state, maybe get some moorhead magic going with cullen. it might just be me because ive been a fan of both of them for a while, especially blake as he played for the fighting sioux also id imagine they'd both be relatively cheap since they're a little older but still have a good amount of skill, it kinda seems like a low risk high reward type of deal, idk what do u guys think??

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03-22-2012, 09:57 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sioux210 View Post
what does everyone think of saku koivu and jason blake for next year? i know they're both at the end of their carrers but i think they could fit well. they also both have connections to minnesota with obviously saku and mikko being brothers, maybe saku wants to finnish his career with his little bro, and with granlund coming in another great finn to help mentor him couldnt hurt. jason blake is from moorhead maybe he wants to finnish his career in his home state, maybe get some moorhead magic going with cullen. it might just be me because ive been a fan of both of them for a while, especially blake as he played for the fighting sioux also id imagine they'd both be relatively cheap since they're a little older but still have a good amount of skill, it kinda seems like a low risk high reward type of deal, idk what do u guys think??
Not a snowball's chance in hell.

And you gotta throw some capital letters and commas there buddy. I had to read that three times before it made any sense.

I first thought that "finnish his career" was a nice pun since it was on Koivu, but doesn't really fit Blake that well... Or, well, it might. Dunno.

But yeah, it would be pointless. Two vets with no real place on our roster. I really don't see us fitting Saku anywhere, and we've got better grinders than Blake on our roster. Besides, Saku (and Teemu) will finish their careers in Ducks. I would've loved to see Saku do it in Habs, but it was not to be.

Now, Niklas Hagman on the other hand, I would've loved to see us grab him in the waivers. The guy's seriously underrated. If you want to grab a Finn for Mikael Granlund, go for Jarkko Immonen (the '82 born one). He's got insane chemistry with Mikke.

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03-22-2012, 10:00 PM
  #197
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Any good 4th line centers out there in free agency this year, so we don't have to watch Warren Peters whiff on tap-ins next year?

Oh, found one... Dominic Moore! Free 2nd rounder next year.


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03-22-2012, 10:28 PM
  #198
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Not a snowball's chance in hell.

And you gotta throw some capital letters and commas there buddy. I had to read that three times before it made any sense.

I first thought that "finnish his career" was a nice pun since it was on Koivu, but doesn't really fit Blake that well... Or, well, it might. Dunno.

But yeah, it would be pointless. Two vets with no real place on our roster. I really don't see us fitting Saku anywhere, and we've got better grinders than Blake on our roster. Besides, Saku (and Teemu) will finish their careers in Ducks. I would've loved to see Saku do it in Habs, but it was not to be.

Now, Niklas Hagman on the other hand, I would've loved to see us grab him in the waivers. The guy's seriously underrated. If you want to grab a Finn for Mikael Granlund, go for Jarkko Immonen (the '82 born one). He's got insane chemistry with Mikke.
ya i know its a long shot but you never know depending on what happens with PMB and lats

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03-23-2012, 01:40 PM
  #199
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i was wondering today if we were to swing and miss on suter, is it a possibility to bring in lidstrom for a year or 2? i understand all detroit fans and the organization feels lidstrom will retire a wing, but you never know.

lidstrom as brodin's mentor? thats a dream come true.

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03-23-2012, 01:48 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by grN1g View Post
i was wondering today if we were to swing and miss on suter, is it a possibility to bring in lidstrom for a year or 2? i understand all detroit fans and the organization feels lidstrom will retire a wing, but you never know.

lidstrom as brodin's mentor? thats a dream come true.
Not even gonna bother getting a half-stalk over this. If Lidstrom is playing in the NHL it's for Detroit.

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