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Sangs vs. Del Zotto

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Old
02-28-2012, 04:33 PM
  #1
SnowblindNYR
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Sangs vs. Del Zotto

I don't know much about Sangs (forgot how to spell his full name). All I know was that he was an offensive defenseman who needed to work on his defensive game. When we drafted MDZ I thought we drafted another Sangs, as he was also a guy that was an offensive defenseman that needed to work on his defense. Why was one a bust and the another is thriving?

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02-28-2012, 04:36 PM
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JeffMangum
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Sanguinetti played with little intensity and played with little, if any physicality. Del Zotto plays a very hard nosed, tough game, and he's far more skilled. Better skater (even though Del Zotto isn't a great skater), better passer, better shot. Simply a better hockey player.

Sanguinetti was skilled in his own right, but like the poster below says, he simply wasn't physically built up to play at this level, nor was he mentally.

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02-28-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I don't know much about Sangs (forgot how to spell his full name). All I know was that he was an offensive defenseman who needed to work on his defensive game. When we drafted MDZ I thought we drafted another Sangs, as he was also a guy that was an offensive defenseman that needed to work on his defense. Why was one a bust and the another is thriving?
Imho, I think he simply never got strong enough to compete in the nhl. I have seen him play in the ahl and he struggles keeping guys to the outside in the dzone. And his iq isn't high enough to make it work like erixon will be able. He may still develop and make the nhl, but I think he would have to become a monster on the pp and offensively.

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02-28-2012, 04:44 PM
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Brian Boyle
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if there was ever a case for drafting best player available

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02-28-2012, 04:52 PM
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azrok22
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
if there was ever a case for drafting best player available
This again? Sanguinetti was viewed as the best player available at the time of the draft, not only by the Rangers, but also by the Flyers who lucked into taking Giroux because Sanguinetti was no longer available. Bobby Clarke couldn't even remember Giroux's name when he got to the podium. Scouting not perfect and players do not always develop as expected/hoped.

EDIT: In fact, even Bob McKenzie's compilation of scout rankings had Sanguinetti at 13 with Giroux at 21.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=3784

Sanguinetti was absolutely not a case of the Rangers going off the board.


Last edited by azrok22: 02-28-2012 at 05:01 PM.
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02-28-2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
This again? Sanguinetti was viewed as the best player available at the time of the draft, not only by the Rangers, but also by the Flyers who lucked into taking Giroux because Sanguinetti was no longer available. Bobby Clarke couldn't even remember Giroux's name when he got to the podium. Scouting not perfect and players do not always develop as expected/hoped.
I also think the reason Giroux slipped was cause even though he had that 1 great year in one of the leagues he played in, scouts felt he was a 1 year wonder which was obviously false.

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02-28-2012, 05:08 PM
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And, evem if Sanginetti was not available when the Rangers were up, the information we had here was that Patrik Berglund was the likely pick.

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02-28-2012, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
This again? Sanguinetti was viewed as the best player available at the time of the draft, not only by the Rangers, but also by the Flyers who lucked into taking Giroux because Sanguinetti was no longer available. Bobby Clarke couldn't even remember Giroux's name when he got to the podium. Scouting not perfect and players do not always develop as expected/hoped.

EDIT: In fact, even Bob McKenzie's compilation of scout rankings had Sanguinetti at 13 with Giroux at 21.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=3784

Sanguinetti was absolutely not a case of the Rangers going off the board.
I meant in the case of drafting Del Zotto when they had Sanguinetti, another offensive d-man, in the system already.

I had no problem with taking Sanguinetti in 2006.

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02-28-2012, 05:42 PM
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Giroux was also a concern because he was seen as too small. He's still small but that's not stopping him, unfortunately.

Sanguinetti turned out to be a terrible pick. It happens, the Flyers just got lucky. There was zero chance of us drafting Giroux. Sather always goes for size and Giroux doesn't fit the bill.

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02-28-2012, 05:43 PM
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You kinda knew Sanguinetti had his work cut out for him when our scouts, and perhaps even Gordie Clark, said that Del Zotto was already as good as Sanguinetti, despite being a year younger.

The knock on Sangs in the OHL was that he was a kid who hated physical play. I remember more than a few wise cracks about him being a little too similar to Tom Poti.

Still, I'm rather surprised that Sangs hasn't made it to the NHL. It became apparent pretty early one that he wasn't going to be the player that the Rangers or fans hoped he'd be, but I figured he'd at least have enough offensive ability that he'd spend some time around the NHL.

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02-28-2012, 06:04 PM
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Sanguinetti was bigger but also softer. The reason he lost to MDZ though was he didn't have what Torts would call 'swagger'. MDZ would walk the blueline and make plays to either side. When it came to head to head competition MDZ killed him. It wasn't so much that Sangs didn't have the skill but he didn't have the confidence and he didn't hit--always waited for the play to come to him.

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02-28-2012, 06:10 PM
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I would not totally write Bobby off just yet. He is still only 23 and missed much of last season due to an injury. He obviously has some skills. He made the ahl allstar team. He won the fastest skater and the hardest shot competitions in the ahl. He has legit size. Some guys mature faster than others in pro sports. Look at how many NY Ranger fans wanted to dump MDZ before this season.

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02-28-2012, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
You kinda knew Sanguinetti had his work cut out for him when our scouts, and perhaps even Gordie Clark, said that Del Zotto was already as good as Sanguinetti, despite being a year younger.

The knock on Sangs in the OHL was that he was a kid who hated physical play. I remember more than a few wise cracks about him being a little too similar to Tom Poti.

Still, I'm rather surprised that Sangs hasn't made it to the NHL. It became apparent pretty early one that he wasn't going to be the player that the Rangers or fans hoped he'd be, but I figured he'd at least have enough offensive ability that he'd spend some time around the NHL.
Yeah, he also seemed to be kind of indecisive about how he was going to play at the NHL level. He knew he had to work on his defense but he couldn't sort out how to play effective defense and offense at the same time. That combined with his lack of intensity and physicality has made it real hard for him to progress in his development IMO

He was a good skater though, not sure why people think Del Zotto was a better skater. I think Del Zotto though has learned how to read the play better and calculate which risks he should take and which ones he shouldn't

Hope Sangs can figure it out though

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02-28-2012, 07:13 PM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
This again? Sanguinetti was viewed as the best player available at the time of the draft, not only by the Rangers, but also by the Flyers who lucked into taking Giroux because Sanguinetti was no longer available. Bobby Clarke couldn't even remember Giroux's name when he got to the podium. Scouting not perfect and players do not always develop as expected/hoped.

EDIT: In fact, even Bob McKenzie's compilation of scout rankings had Sanguinetti at 13 with Giroux at 21.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=3784

Sanguinetti was absolutely not a case of the Rangers going off the board.
Is there any proof that Clarke wanted Sanguinetti other than him forgetting Girioux's name? That doesn't seem like great proof to me.

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02-28-2012, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Giroux was also a concern because he was seen as too small. He's still small but that's not stopping him, unfortunately.

Sanguinetti turned out to be a terrible pick. It happens, the Flyers just got lucky. There was zero chance of us drafting Giroux. Sather always goes for size and Giroux doesn't fit the bill.
There's that Hugh Jessiman mentality.

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02-28-2012, 09:08 PM
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ChrisKreider20
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When Sanguinetti got drafted, I feared he could end up being Tom Poti 2.0...instead he ended up being worse...

I remember my first indication that he was going to be a bust was this:
I knew a guy who played on his junior team (you can check him out - Miles Cope on hockeydb)
I asked him about Sanguinetti and he basically said he was cocky, his stats were padded because they would run entire plays around him so he could get points. That + his softness was the real problem.

This was his report:
Sanguinetti is blessed with offensive gifts and knows when to jump into the play for an offensive chance. With outstanding skating and puck-handling abilities, Sanguinetti is a dynamic force on the blueline with equal skill in moving both north/south and east/west. He needs to focus more on the play in his own zone, playing smarter, stronger, and tougher in his own defensive end. Though not particularly strong, he is tall and fast with the ability to make a sharp first pass. While his long reach is an effective tool in the defensive game, Sanguinetti is far from polished when it comes from identifying potential threats and positioning himself to prevent scoring opportunities by the opponents.

His result: Poor man's Matt Gilroy

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02-28-2012, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Sanguinetti played with little intensity and played with little, if any physicality. Del Zotto plays a very hard nosed, tough game, and he's far more skilled. Better skater (even though Del Zotto isn't a great skater), better passer, better shot. Simply a better hockey player.

Sanguinetti was skilled in his own right, but like the poster below says, he simply wasn't physically built up to play at this level, nor was he mentally.
Sanguinetti was a better skater then Del Zotto, MDZ just has way better instincts. Sangs probably had a better shot as well, not to mention a few inches on DZ. Del Zotto just knows when to pinch, plays very aggressive and his passing is lightyears ahead.

I think Del Zotto's mental makeup and fearless style are the reasons that he's the better NHL players. And obviously, his passing.

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02-28-2012, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Sanguinetti was bigger but also softer. The reason he lost to MDZ though was he didn't have what Torts would call 'swagger'. MDZ would walk the blueline and make plays to either side. When it came to head to head competition MDZ killed him. It wasn't so much that Sangs didn't have the skill but he didn't have the confidence and he didn't hit--always waited for the play to come to him.
Winner winner chicken dinner.

Sanguinetti was the worst tryout player ever, because he didn't play his game. Del Zotto nearly made the team as an 18 year old because he would get on the PP and show his stuff. Sanguinetti just tried to play solid defensively; he didn't showcase any of his skills.

I also knew plenty of people that played with him and were friends with him and they said he was dumb as a rock.

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02-28-2012, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Is there any proof that Clarke wanted Sanguinetti other than him forgetting Girioux's name? That doesn't seem like great proof to me.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/F...is-game-052810

Quote:
As legend has it, Giroux was not the Flyers' primary target on draft day in 2006. Lacking depth on the blue line, the Flyers were said to be targeting Bobby Sanguinetti, of Lumberton, N.J. But when the Rangers picked Sanguinetti at No. 21, the tale goes, it caught the Flyers off-guard. The fact that then-general manager Bob Clarke stumbled when announcing Giroux' name at No. 22 only added fuel to the story. Holmgren denies the speculation about Sanguinetti.

"Claude was the guy we had and who we were going to take," Holmgren said. "Whatever speculation there was, was kind of crazy. [Scouts] Simon Nolet and Dennis Patterson followed him closely in Quebec that year [2006], and I did as well."

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02-28-2012, 09:35 PM
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Rangerfan4life90
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Lol that's a load of crap. Why can't he just admit he was gonna take Sangs at their pick if we didn't? No harm will even be done to him..

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02-28-2012, 09:48 PM
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SnowblindNYR
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Still not completely sold. But there's no reason for Holmgren to admit it either.

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02-28-2012, 09:49 PM
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Still not completely sold. But there's no reason for Holmgren to admit it either.
Well that wasn't the only place it was reported following that draft. And obviously Holmgren has motivation to deny that story.

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02-29-2012, 01:29 PM
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The Flyers had a jersey ready with Sanguinetti's name on the back. Holmgren isn't telling the truth.

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02-29-2012, 01:51 PM
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Doesn't look like Sanguinetti has a future in Carolina. Gleason(lefty) plays the right side. They already have 2 righty shots in McBain and Faulk. Murphy is a righty. He could make their team next season. Pitkanen is signed. Dumoulin is expected to leave BC and turn pro. They have Austin Levi turning pro next season. He plays with Miller in Plymouth. Sanguinetti has players ahead of him and other players catching up to him. Faulk already passed him bye.

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02-29-2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aileen C View Post
There's that Hugh Jessiman mentality.
In this case, not so much.

With Jessiman, the general consensus by the vast majority of people was that there was a plethora of better guys on the board than Jessiman.

With the 2006 draft, not so much.

I try not to think about the 2002 and 2003 drafts. IMO, they were this team's lowest point. The 9/10 years since those drafts have been far more pleasant experiences.

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