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Old
02-28-2012, 05:44 PM
  #201
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If we make the playoffs this year than you will see the real Mike Richards and start to love the trade again. If we don't make it than next year but I still love the trade

Mikes a gamer. Kinda wish we traded Clifford instead of Simmonds though, I remember reading or hearing someone on TSN mention they wanted Clifford but Kingd opted for Simmonds

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02-28-2012, 05:45 PM
  #202
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Everyone sucks this year except Quick. Fine, well all agree....but most of our struggling star players DID NOT COST US SIMMONDS AND SCHENN.

That was our future. The best prospect last year not in the NHL and one of the premiere power forwards for this....?

Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Doughty, Voynov drafted. Gagne a UFA signee. Williams from the O'Sullivan deal. Lombardi dealt Visnovsky because of Doughty, he dealt Smyth and signed Gagne, he dealt JJ because of Voynov. Every player was either drafted or traded because we had someone able to step in and fill the void.

Who is going to be our future Brayden Schenn or Wayne Simmonds? DL has no replacements.

We missed the playoffs for 6 seasons, get eliminated in the first round 2 years in a row, trade for Richards and all of a sudden we are a contender? Ha.

Who is our future #2 center? Future power forward?

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02-28-2012, 05:55 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Everyone sucks this year except Quick. Fine, well all agree....but most of our struggling star players DID NOT COST US SIMMONDS AND SCHENN.

That was our future. The best prospect last year not in the NHL and one of the premiere power forwards for this....?

Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Doughty, Voynov drafted. Gagne a UFA signee. Williams from the O'Sullivan deal. Lombardi dealt Visnovsky because of Doughty, he dealt Smyth and signed Gagne, he dealt JJ because of Voynov. Every player was either drafted or traded because we had someone able to step in and fill the void.

Who is going to be our future Brayden Schenn or Wayne Simmonds? DL has no replacements.

We missed the playoffs for 6 seasons, get eliminated in the first round 2 years in a row, trade for Richards and all of a sudden we are a contender? Ha.

Who is our future #2 center? Future power forward?
Yeah, where are we ever going to find another guy like Simmonds who doesn't commit turnovers ever??

Who is our future #2 center? Mike Richards. Who was our #2 center before this trade? Jarret Stoll!

Future power forward? Clifford? Acquired via free agency or trade perhaps?

In case you didn't know, when making trades in professional sports you have to part with good players in order to make a trade of impact. This is known as "give to get". Perhaps you've heard of it.

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02-28-2012, 05:56 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Everyone sucks this year except Quick. Fine, well all agree....but most of our struggling star players DID NOT COST US SIMMONDS AND SCHENN.

That was our future. The best prospect last year not in the NHL and one of the premiere power forwards for this....?

Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Doughty, Voynov drafted. Gagne a UFA signee. Williams from the O'Sullivan deal. Lombardi dealt Visnovsky because of Doughty, he dealt Smyth and signed Gagne, he dealt JJ because of Voynov. Every player was either drafted or traded because we had someone able to step in and fill the void.

Who is going to be our future Brayden Schenn or Wayne Simmonds? DL has no replacements.

We missed the playoffs for 6 seasons, get eliminated in the first round 2 years in a row, trade for Richards and all of a sudden we are a contender? Ha.

Who is our future #2 center? Future power forward?
O boy Johnny


6-23-2011 Post number 396 Richards tread thread.

Johnny Utah:
I like how Lombardi refers to Richards as a "culture changer" like Kyle Clifford. Shows how much Clifford has meant to LA.

For me, a dude who loves gritty hockey...I am super stoked that we have guys like Brown, Richards, Clifford, Westgarth, Mitchell, Greene and possibly Clune on our team. It will not be fun to play LA next year...Simmonds was tough, but Richards can hit like a freight train. Other teams hated playing against Brown because of how he hits, now they have to worry about Richards...
end Quote...

Never type anything you don't want to come back and huant you.
I have more coming...


6-23-2011 Post number 303

Johnny Utah:
A lot of pressure on Schenn now, I loved Simmonds, he is a 15-20 goal scoring 2nd or 3rd liner, but to replace Richards, you need to be a top 10-15 NHL caliber player who can score, hit, fight and produce 60-80 points and produce in big games in the show....Schenn now has to prove he can come close to that, if he does then the Flyers win because they got that and Simmonds and a 2nd, if he can't, then it's gonna be rough for Flyers fans...
end Quote....

There is more...


Post * 310 is a Richards video highliting his career....posted by Johnny Utah.

Post number 312

Johnny Utah:

A lot of top NHL teams over the past decade or so have shown that it takes 2 top centerman to win the Cup....Sakic/Forsberg, Datysuk/Zetterberg, Crosby/Malkin, Lecavlier/Richards...etc....Hell, even the Stanley Cup final Canucks had Sedin/Kesler as the top 2 centerman, Boston would've had 3 with Savard, Kreji, Bergeron but Savard has been hurt....

Lombardi has mentioned this before in interviews....We all knew something like this would happen. I don't know if Brad Richards at his age and salary demands was what DL wanted.
end Quote....

There is more....

Overall I would say Johnny, you were not broken up about losing simme; till he put points in Philly, which everyone knew he would.


Last edited by damacles1156: 02-28-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Old
02-28-2012, 05:58 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Everyone sucks this year except Quick. Fine, well all agree....but most of our struggling star players DID NOT COST US SIMMONDS AND SCHENN.

That was our future. The best prospect last year not in the NHL and one of the premiere power forwards for this....?

Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Doughty, Voynov drafted. Gagne a UFA signee. Williams from the O'Sullivan deal. Lombardi dealt Visnovsky because of Doughty, he dealt Smyth and signed Gagne, he dealt JJ because of Voynov. Every player was either drafted or traded because we had someone able to step in and fill the void.

Who is going to be our future Brayden Schenn or Wayne Simmonds? DL has no replacements.

We missed the playoffs for 6 seasons, get eliminated in the first round 2 years in a row, trade for Richards and all of a sudden we are a contender? Ha.

Who is our future #2 center? Future power forward?

Richards and Clifford , well atleast in Deans eyes lol

Richards will be fine , or maybe Carter will be our 2nd line center and Richards as our 3rd if he keeps struggling but I doubt it.

As for power forwards , Tonnelis says Andreoff can maybe fill the void of Simmonds to an extent and I believe him so we will just have to wait and see.

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02-28-2012, 05:59 PM
  #206
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If DL is so into defensive hockey then why hire Crawford? Was it to tank?

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02-28-2012, 06:02 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post

6-23-2011 Post number 303

Johnny Utah:
A lot of pressure on Schenn now, I loved Simmonds, he is a 15-20 goal scoring 2nd or 3rd liner, but to replace Richards, you need to be a top 10-15 NHL caliber player who can score, hit, fight and produce 60-80 points and produce in big games in the show....Schenn now has to prove he can come close to that, if he does then the Flyers win because they got that and Simmonds and a 2nd, if he can't, then it's gonna be rough for Flyers fans...
This is funny to me because Richards, even while struggling this year, has scored, hit, fought, and is on pace to produce 63 points (within JU's range he mentioned).

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02-28-2012, 06:02 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
O boy Johnny


6-23-2011 Post number 396 Richards tread thread.

Johnny Utah:
I like how Lombardi refers to Richards as a "culture changer" like Kyle Clifford. Shows how much Clifford has meant to LA.

For me, a dude who loves gritty hockey...I am super stoked that we have guys like Brown, Richards, Clifford, Westgarth, Mitchell, Greene and possibly Clune on our team. It will not be fun to play LA next year...Simmonds was tough, but Richards can hit like a freight train. Other teams hated playing against Brown because of how he hits, now they have to worry about Richards...
end Quote...

Never type anything you don't want to come back and huant you.
I have more coming...


6-23-2011 Post number 303

Johnny Utah:
A lot of pressure on Schenn now, I loved Simmonds, he is a 15-20 goal scoring 2nd or 3rd liner, but to replace Richards, you need to be a top 10-15 NHL caliber player who can score, hit, fight and produce 60-80 points and produce in big games in the show....Schenn now has to prove he can come close to that, if he does then the Flyers win because they got that and Simmonds and a 2nd, if he can't, then it's gonna be rough for Flyers fans...
end Quote....

There is more...


Post * 310 is a Richards video highliting his career....posted by Johnny Utah.

Post number 312

Johnny Utah:

A lot of top NHL teams over the past decade or so have shown that it takes 2 top centerman to win the Cup....Sakic/Forsberg, Datysuk/Zetterberg, Crosby/Malkin, Lecavlier/Richards...etc....Hell, even the Stanley Cup final Canucks had Sedin/Kesler as the top 2 centerman, Boston would've had 3 with Savard, Kreji, Bergeron but Savard has been hurt....

Lombardi has mentioned this before in interviews....We all knew something like this would happen. I don't know if Brad Richards at his age and salary demands was what DL wanted.
end Quote....

There is more....
This is funny

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02-28-2012, 06:09 PM
  #209
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I am all for people changing their mind , that is fine.

But don't flat out lie about it. Those don't look like I am sooo mad Simmer is gone posts.

Tomd actually was livid about the trade and Stayed consistant through out that whole thread.... And this year.

I bet If I look hard enough Johnny Utah's first negative post about Mike was when Simmer passed him in Goals for the season...

Hey that's fine, But don't act like you saw it coming a mile away.

I admit I thought Richards would be a 60 to 70 point player THIS SEASON. But I was wrong, I hope next season he is.

You see how easy that is ? To admit you're wrong about something.

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02-28-2012, 06:13 PM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
O boy Johnny


6-23-2011 Post number 396 Richards tread thread.

Johnny Utah:
I like how Lombardi refers to Richards as a "culture changer" like Kyle Clifford. Shows how much Clifford has meant to LA.

For me, a dude who loves gritty hockey...I am super stoked that we have guys like Brown, Richards, Clifford, Westgarth, Mitchell, Greene and possibly Clune on our team. It will not be fun to play LA next year...Simmonds was tough, but Richards can hit like a freight train. Other teams hated playing against Brown because of how he hits, now they have to worry about Richards...
end Quote...

Never type anything you don't want to come back and huant you.
I have more coming...


6-23-2011 Post number 303

Johnny Utah:
A lot of pressure on Schenn now, I loved Simmonds, he is a 15-20 goal scoring 2nd or 3rd liner, but to replace Richards, you need to be a top 10-15 NHL caliber player who can score, hit, fight and produce 60-80 points and produce in big games in the show....Schenn now has to prove he can come close to that, if he does then the Flyers win because they got that and Simmonds and a 2nd, if he can't, then it's gonna be rough for Flyers fans...
end Quote....

There is more...


Post * 310 is a Richards video highliting his career....posted by Johnny Utah.

Post number 312

Johnny Utah:

A lot of top NHL teams over the past decade or so have shown that it takes 2 top centerman to win the Cup....Sakic/Forsberg, Datysuk/Zetterberg, Crosby/Malkin, Lecavlier/Richards...etc....Hell, even the Stanley Cup final Canucks had Sedin/Kesler as the top 2 centerman, Boston would've had 3 with Savard, Kreji, Bergeron but Savard has been hurt....

Lombardi has mentioned this before in interviews....We all knew something like this would happen. I don't know if Brad Richards at his age and salary demands was what DL wanted.
end Quote....

There is more....

Overall I would say Johnny, you were not broken up about losing simme; till he put points in Philly, which everyone knew he would.

Facts!

And JU, I loved Simmonds but last year he wasn't looking like a premier power forward like you said earlier in the thread.

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02-28-2012, 06:18 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Richards View Post
I agree that they didn't trade those assets for 50ish points and intangibles. But what grinds my gears is that people expect the guy to simply switch conferences and teams, get concussed, skate on a line with the Brain Trust themselves, Penner and Stoll, and magically replicate the numbers he put up on the most offensively dynamic team in the league....
Please do not post rational concepts. It just irritates the crank zombies.

Personally, a guy who has won every important championship there is in hockey, seems to be a good "intangible" to have around the youngest or second youngest team in the NHL. And 50 points in today's amplified defense NHL is nothing to shrug off.


But it's ok. M. Richards was brought over by Lombardi.

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02-28-2012, 06:20 PM
  #212
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I am looking for my own posts in that thread, But I predicted Schenn would start the year hurt, and not post 30 points Total.....
,
So far I am right...

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02-28-2012, 06:26 PM
  #213
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Schenn has had a good streak of about 15 games thus far. He's pointless in 5 after being hot for a couple weeks

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02-28-2012, 06:27 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Hmm, ok, so going by your answers, it's clear to me that you probably have a better understanding of the situation than most. So let's review:

1. Too many centers. So you're saying Richards got "lost in a numbers game" because the Flyers had too many centers. Yes, the Flyers had multiple centers, but why would they choose to deal Richards if he was a "great captain" and "great player". Do you think the Blackhawks would trade Toews because there are too many centers in the system? Did the Pens ship out Malkin because they have 3 top centers in him, Crosby and Staal? Teams don't trade franchise players and captains because there are "too many" at his position. You mention the Flyers couldn't trade Briere, but you have nothing to back that up. The bottom line is, the Flyers CHOSE to trade Richards out of them all.

2. Chris Pronger. So you're saying that Pronger would take the C from Toews and Brown. Again, do you have proof of that? Has Pronger ever walked into a team and demanded or "stole" the C from someone else? I think what you're REALLY saying is "Pronger is better captain material than Richards" but you don't want to say it that way. But again, do you think Pronger walks into Calgary and takes the C from Iginla? No way. Why? Because Iginla is a great captain. There's the crux of your answer.

3. Desired change in captaincy. Again, WHY would the Flyers want a change if Richards wasn't part of the problem? Was it just "Everyone pick on Mike Richards Day" in Philly? It speaks volumes when a team wants to change their captain. And when it happens, isn't it usually solely on the shoulders of the captain? If not, I'm open to examples of where captains were victimized for no reason.

4. Peter Laviolette. Ok, so you're saying a Stanley Cup winning coach was the reason (or a factor in why) Richards was traded. Yes, you are correct. But again, why?? Why would a coach not see eye-to-eye with his captain? Why would a coach be in favor of his captain being traded? Common sense and history will tell you it's the player's fault, no?

5. Media types who didn't like him. So now it's the media picking on Richards for "no reason"? Sure, some of the Philly media are jackasses, trust me I know, I live here. And when it comes to hockey, they are buffoons in most cases lol. You'll get no argument from me there either. But, WHY was there a conflict between them and Richards yet there wasn't with any other player on the Flyers? There wasn't with Pronger, Primeau, Poulin, Howe, Tocchet, Brind'Amour, LeClair, even Lindros. Why is it that they didn't get along with Mike Richards? Could it be maybe, just maybe, Richards doesn't know how to treat people? Either everyone is out to get Richards for no reason or Richards is the problem. I'm sensing a trend here.

6. Perceived misconduct which some fans didn't like to hear about. Let me tell you, I've seen the Bullies, the 79/80 Flyers, the Keenan 87 Flyers and the Lindros Flyers and the fans love ANY player who brings it on the ice, gives it their all and doesn't act like an ass off the ice. Richards was beloved in Philly during his early years and that bond was softened because the fans were sick of the drama and the failures. In general, the fans don't care if Richards were a raving animal if he won a Cup. As for Carter, the fans turned on him immediately after multiple years of either being injured or just coming up short in the playoffs. But when that happens and all you hear about is these two partying it up around town, yes, it turns off a lot of fans who feel they care more about the team than these brats do. Also, just to prove how "awkward/disrespectful" Richards is...when he returned to Philly, reporter mentioned the reception he received from the fans (more cheers than boos) and asked him if he had anything to say to the Philly fans and his answer was, "No." What does that tell you about the type of "person" Mike Richards is?

Here's the thing....you are 100% correct with all of your "reasons" why Richards was traded, but you are not connecting the dots or being honest about "why" it got to that point because you are obviously a Richards fan and very partial to him.
Great post and I think you are 100% correct on all points. well played.

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02-28-2012, 06:33 PM
  #215
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Utah also said that quick was an average goalie that was a product of the system, he's not beating that drum anymore......

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02-28-2012, 06:40 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Now if I were to provide a scouting report of the strengths and weaknesses of the Kings' offense as a unit, it is very easy to pinpoint the weaknesses. They lack speed on the attack, they are seldom aggressive inside the offensive zone, they don't attack the net hard, most of their shots are generated from the outside perimeter and from the points, they do not penetrate the middle of the ice nor do they try to get to the prime scoring areas.
They haven't learned to attack instinctively as a five man unit and they are too spread across the ice. Detroit isn't exactly the Oilers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The lack of puck movement could be attributed to this team's lack of speed, they are not a puck possession team and mainly try to generate their offensive chances off a single rush or second chances. While they play a physical game for the most part, the Kings lose many board battles for possession of the puck and are not strong enough along the wall. They are not physical enough to have an abrasive attack, they are not fast enough to create chances off a rush, and they are not creative enough to play a puck possession game.
They aren't disciplined as a five man unit. They don't support each other's battles on the ice. When they have their rhythm and are all on the same page they are a a very good team that is, on occasion, dominating. They need to compete from that place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
So that begs the question, what type of offensive team are they? The best way to describe this team and their play is that they are a defensive squad that plays a stifling, shutdown style of hockey. You will never (or rarely) see them get blown out offensively, but you are also not going to see them create many offensive opportunities for themselves. Thus, this team is in dire need of a fundamental change in its strategy.

This brand of hockey may have translated to success a decade ago, but it just is not going to work out in today's NHL.
I'll bet that Trotz, Hitchcock, Babcock, and Tippett will strongly disagree with this idea (in bold).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
In order for Mike Richards and the 11 other forwards to turn things around offensively, the Kings have to hit the reset button on this coaching staff and start from scratch. They also must make a few personnel decisions to address the lack of speed, grit, and creativity that they need to address over the offseason.
A reset, rebuild, new system is the very last thing a team needs when struggling like this. They need to play through the struggle. Struggles don't get easier the deeper you go into the playoffs. Teams just learn how to handle adversity better. That's what the Kings need to do. It's called maturing and getting tough. Champions get through it. I'm ready to let these kids do that. I'm not giving up on them, the team, the staff, or the club.

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02-28-2012, 06:54 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Everyone sucks this year except Quick. Fine, well all agree....but most of our struggling star players DID NOT COST US SIMMONDS AND SCHENN.

That was our future. The best prospect last year not in the NHL and one of the premiere power forwards for this....?

Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Doughty, Voynov drafted. Gagne a UFA signee. Williams from the O'Sullivan deal. Lombardi dealt Visnovsky because of Doughty, he dealt Smyth and signed Gagne, he dealt JJ because of Voynov. Every player was either drafted or traded because we had someone able to step in and fill the void.

Who is going to be our future Brayden Schenn or Wayne Simmonds? DL has no replacements.

We missed the playoffs for 6 seasons, get eliminated in the first round 2 years in a row, trade for Richards and all of a sudden we are a contender? Ha.

Who is our future #2 center? Future power forward?
You just don't like to live in the realistic world, you're still rockin' the free world in your fantasy world, and man I got to say that it's tiring.

Schenn wasn't going to just come in and produce as our second line center no matter how much you like to think your hindsight 20/20 posts seem to portray.

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02-28-2012, 06:55 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Richards was supposed to get us deep into the playoffs, now we are in danger of missing them. That's on top of his dismal numbers.

Looks like we aren't the only ones pointing out Richards struggles, Barry did a blog post.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Matth...ards/125/42642
He took a few unnecessary shots in that article haha.

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02-28-2012, 07:00 PM
  #219
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Matt Barry was very critical of Wayne Simmonds and accused him of a lot of negative things, including saying things like he was too much of a party boy and was becoming a bad influence on Doughty (which I believe is a load of B.S. anyway). That guy is a piece of work.

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02-28-2012, 07:13 PM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
I am all for people changing their mind , that is fine.

But don't flat out lie about it. Those don't look like I am sooo mad Simmer is gone posts.

Tomd actually was livid about the trade and Stayed consistant through out that whole thread.... And this year.
I don't know how you are able to find these posts because I can't go back before December of 2011 on a search of a username. I called tomd out for it then and I'll never him let him live it down until he admits 1) that he was wrong then or 2) he is wrong now. You can't have it both ways. In fact, I'll have to look through the trade thread because I'm pretty sure i posted his quote from the trade proposal board in that thread and called him on it. He back pedaled then and continues to not acknowledge what he wrote. We're all wrong about things we say in our lives sometimes and to be so stubborn that you can't admit that is laughable. Especially when it is something as trivial as discussing professional sports.

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02-28-2012, 07:13 PM
  #221
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Not gonna comment too much just want to say, it's one thing for a single player to be having a down season, it's another for the entire team to be down offensively. That strikes as a system problem rather than a player problem.

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02-28-2012, 07:20 PM
  #222
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On the other hand, it could be the dreaded "transitory" phase, where a team is learning how to present two or three different attack or defense looks within their system. That's a real development hurdle. But necessary.

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02-28-2012, 07:27 PM
  #223
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And here it is...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=814

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd
I am betting that Schenn becomes a Mike Richards / Rod Brind'amour type center. You know, the kind that you win championships with. If he maxes out as a Stoll, then the Kings blew the pick. Time will tell but he has FAR more talent and intangibles than Stoll did at the same age
This same guy blasted the Mike Richards trade a whopping 4 months later. Because the difference between Schenn/Simmonds versus Richards is what would have or could have brought a Cup to LA.

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02-28-2012, 07:39 PM
  #224
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I guess the kool-aid army decided it was time to fight back with facts


Mmmm grape is the best flavor.

Jason Lewis is offline  
Old
02-28-2012, 07:40 PM
  #225
tomd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
And here it is...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=814



This same guy blasted the Mike Richards trade a whopping 4 months later. Because the difference between Schenn/Simmonds versus Richards is what would have or could have brought a Cup to LA.
Sigh...for (hopefully) the last time...my whole point was that this team was not ready to add a Mike Richards type player to the roster and it would have been FAR better to keep Schenn and Simmonds and continue to develop a young core.

And based upon his play over the past 1 1/2 seasons, Mike Richards IS now overrated by most fans. The difference between the 24 year-old version of Mike Richards and the 27 year-old version is staggering. Unfortunately, the Kings are stuck with the latter and will be for almost the next decade.

And, as always, remember...1 goal in 29 games.

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