HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

2012 Eklund Rumor Hit Percentage ?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-28-2012, 03:17 PM
  #76
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
Ohhhh you mad
 
DekeLikeYouMeanIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In space..with goats
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
i can't believe I am looking this up, but i am so sick of people calling others a liar just because they have to believe eklund is wrong

1:07pm Eklund said Zanon traded to Boston
1:11pm Bob McKenzie said Zanon traded to Boston

I am not saying he "broke it", I am saying he posted it before TSN and McKenzie tweeted his before they said it on air.
I think Russo (Wild writer?) broke it first.

DekeLikeYouMeanIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:21 PM
  #77
Vomiting Kermit*
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,562
vCash: 500
"I am the 1%." - Eklund

Vomiting Kermit* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:27 PM
  #78
santiclaws
Registered User
 
santiclaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post

To compare him to Bob McKenzie (which is a disservice to McKenzie), but if you'll allow: we know McKenzie, we read him in The Hockey News, we watch him on television, we read his articles online and his tweets, he has even participated on these boards. We know about his sons playing hockey, we've seen him interviewing GMs and coaches and players. This all adds up.
The likelihood of McKenzie reporting falsehoods or making things up is extremely low, if not for pure ethics alone, then at least because someone in his 25-30 years of work would have blown the house of cards over. The time he has put in and continues to put in establishes credibility.
I take McKenzie's word as gospel more or less and it was McKenzie who posted on this forum that Eklund does have sources, although it would be difficult for the casual reader to separate the wheat from the chaff. Eklund called the Richards trade before anyone else and Eklund posted a proposal from this very board as a "rumor" on his site, perfectly illustrating what Bob said about him.

That said, who cares? We're not dealing with life and death here, as hard as it is to believe for some. The NHL, like any professional sport, is in the business of entertainment. Eklund is the hockey version of a gossip columnist, somewhere between Weekly World News and The Star. Much BS, but it is harmless BS. If you find him entertaining, fine, he's fulfilled his purpose. If you don't, that's fine, too, don't pay any attention to him and I'm pretty sure it will not have a dramatic effect on your life. I don't understand the animosity that some people harbor towards him. He's not denying the Holocaust, he is making up hockey rumors. Big effin' deal. If no one wanted to read them, his web site would not exist. Apparently, some people do. If they are entertained, so be it. Let them spend their clicks and their money how they choose. It doesn't affect anyone else one iota.

santiclaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:35 PM
  #79
Sh00terMcGavin
Snake? Snaaaaaaake!
 
Sh00terMcGavin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 5,987
vCash: 500
He's a joke, but so is Dreger anymore. I swear McKenzie is the only reliable one.

Sh00terMcGavin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:43 PM
  #81
NeilYoung
Registered User
 
NeilYoung's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,651
vCash: 500
The fact this idiot makes a living off his rumors is disgusting

The fact that this website considers him a source is embarrassing

NeilYoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:46 PM
  #82
AMDZen
Moon June Spoon Goon
 
AMDZen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denver
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,720
vCash: 608
As Barnum or Bailey said, there's a sucker born every minute.

I congratulate him on making money off people, its the American way

AMDZen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:24 PM
  #83
Medium Rare*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pens1566 View Post
Wasn't it proven that he takes rumors from this very forum and posts them?
I think all that has ever been proven is he has no filter. Sending him a rumor doesn't prove him as a fake, it proves him to have no screening process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by middletoe View Post
So for whatever time you spent on following Eklund, the best thing you got out of it was Zanon to Boston 4 minutes before Bob McKenzie reported it?
Considering all I every said was he posted it before other guys I follow on twitter. And the post I quoted said Eklund never had it before anyone, that's all I needed to prove my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsolument90 View Post
I think Russo (Wild writer?) broke it first.
It's possible, Russo is an excellent source but I just know I never saw it, but I follow a couple hundred reporters and bloggers and its almost exclusively hockey people so its entirely possible I missed something by someone since so many tweets were coming through at once.

Medium Rare* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:29 PM
  #84
Medium Rare*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
That's exactly the point. We could never know. So it's impossible to say if his reports are credible or reliable or anywhere close to being true. Because everything he reports has to stand on its own.

To compare him to Bob McKenzie (which is a disservice to McKenzie), but if you'll allow: we know McKenzie, we read him in The Hockey News, we watch him on television, we read his articles online and his tweets, he has even participated on these boards. We know about his sons playing hockey, we've seen him interviewing GMs and coaches and players. This all adds up.
The likelihood of McKenzie reporting falsehoods or making things up is extremely low, if not for pure ethics alone, then at least because someone in his 25-30 years of work would have blown the house of cards over. The time he has put in and continues to put in establishes credibility.

Now let's look at Eklund. What do we know? Well, we don't really know his name (officially). We don't really know his background (depending on what version of his biography you've read, he's written best-selling books, worked for two, maybe three NHL teams, etc.). We've never "seen" him (shadowy figure in the rafters at Sportsnet while Darren Millard and Bill Watters ate pizza notwithstanding). He appeared pretty much out of no where and so we have no idea of his contacts, his connections, anything. Sure, we know from past reporting that he's buddies with Tim Pannacio and a few other guys, but that's never been presented by him. It's only been things dug up by real journalists actually doing the work. He presents his readers with nothing of himself and expects them to believe what he says. Where's the credibility?

The idea of anonymity on the Internet flies almost directly in the face of credibility and ethics when it comes to reporting and journalism. There's a reason why my articles are written under my name, why I post here under my name, why I tweet under my name, etc. etc. In a way, it's branding, but more importantly it's trust too. Bob McKenzie is presenting his true self, his true name and from that truth comes the reasonably expectation that everything that goes along with that starting truth is likely to be true. That's a standard I try to follow myself.

Eklund doesn't provide any of that truth, which to me is the initial nugget of my problem with him. There are real writers, real journalists doing better work than him, providing more credible rumour and reporting, under their own name. But this "anonymous hockey blogger" crap continues.

I once read that "your name is the only thing you've got." Which sticks with me. If I screw up, if I report things that aren't true or make up a story, that's my name attached to it. I can't duck that. But if Eklund does, it doesn't matter as much to Dwight Keith Klessel.
the bolded is the problem. he should never be compared to MacKenzie, He should never be compared to Dreger, he should never be compared to Russo.... etc. They deal in reporting news and trying to break stories.

Eklund deals in reporting rumors, he reports on whether teams are having discussions, on whether a team has asked about a player in order to draw hits to his website.

They are not comparable in the slightest.

Eklund is more in a class with the likes of Brooks or Garrioch when they focus on rumors (which they do quite a bit of). Look through the rumors Garrioch spews, I bet 3% would be around where he is too.

Medium Rare* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:34 PM
  #85
ChocolateLeclaire
Registered User
 
ChocolateLeclaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
the bolded is the problem. he should never be compared to MacKenzie, He should never be compared to Dreger, he should never be compared to Russo.... etc. They deal in reporting news and trying to break stories.

Eklund deals in reporting rumors, he reports on whether teams are having discussions, on whether a team has asked about a player in order to draw hits to his website.

They are not comparable in the slightest.

Eklund is more in a class with the likes of Brooks or Garrioch when they focus on rumors (which they do quite a bit of). Look through the rumors Garrioch spews, I bet 3% would be around where he is too.
The difference is that Garrioch posted those rumors under his REAL NAME and took the credibility hit to his journalistic career as he should have. Either he was fed some poor information or he learned a hard lesson about spreading lies but at the end of the day, it's HIS NAME that is run through the mud.

Eklund has no credibility. NONE. And he does so hiding behind his "sources". No one is asking him to list his sources, but list his background that could provide some credibility to the crap he offers. Since he decides to hide under a cloak an anonymity, then we all have the right to consider him a baseless liar.

You're defending the indefensible. Eklund's "rumors" should be granted no credibility whatsoever and the faster people stop considering him a source for any hockey news, the better.

ChocolateLeclaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:37 PM
  #86
Medium Rare*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocolateLeclaire View Post
The difference is that Garrioch posted those rumors under his REAL NAME and took the credibility hit to his journalistic career as he should have. Either he was fed some poor information or he learned a hard lesson about spreading lies but at the end of the day, it's HIS NAME that is run through the mud.

Eklund has no credibility. NONE. And he does so hiding behind his "sources". No one is asking him to list his sources, but list his background that could provide some credibility to the crap he offers. Since he decides to hide under a cloak an anonymity, then we all have the right to consider him a baseless liar.

You're defending the indefensible. Eklund's "rumors" should be granted no credibility whatsoever and the faster people stop considering him a source for any hockey news, the better.
who cares if he has credibility? its entertainment. and lets be honest, Garrioch may use his real name, but he is hardly considered credible by people that know his work.

Who cares what Eklund's real name is, who cares about his past? people seem to forget this is all entertainment.

Medium Rare* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:37 PM
  #87
JetFan4Ever
Registered User
 
JetFan4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 330
vCash: 678
I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about. If you see his name in the tag line don't look at the thread. I stopped following him on twitter after he tweeted the Nash to LA trade as "almost a sure thing", then very slyly backed away from it after I'm sure it generated a huge amount of hits to his website. If you don't like him, don't read him and don't go to his web page. The web page makes him money through hits, I don't think I'm telling anyboody anything they don't already know.

JetFan4Ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:40 PM
  #88
Medium Rare*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan4Ever View Post
I'm really not sure what all the fuss is about. If you see his name in the tag line don't look at the thread. I stopped following him on twitter after he tweeted the Nash to LA trade as "almost a sure thing", then very slyly backed away from it after I'm sure it generated a huge amount of hits to his website. If you don't like him, don't read him and don't go to his web page. The web page makes him money through hits, I don't think I'm telling anyboody anything they don't already know.
exactly, but people on here seem to like to stir things up for some reason. They intentionally choose topics they dislike just for the purpose of saying negative things.

Medium Rare* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:42 PM
  #89
GordieHoweHatTrick
Registered User
 
GordieHoweHatTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDZen View Post
As Barnum or Bailey said, there's a sucker born every minute.

I congratulate him on making money off people, its the American way
Very true. Make money of those who don't know better.

Eklund is a fraud, I don't know why people are debating it. People should just unsubscribe from his website, that way he would have do something actually productive economically instead of being a leech

GordieHoweHatTrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:46 PM
  #90
Alberta_OReilly_Fan
Bruin fan since 1975
 
Alberta_OReilly_Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Edmonton Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,002
vCash: 500
these threads always make me want to scream... not because im in love with eklund or anything. i dont pay for rumors {or inside sources} so i never read him...

but in general what do all you knuckleheads expect reguarding rumors {and inside sources}

the simple reality is the NHL has anti-tampering rules so even if a real nhl gm/owner wanted to say he was interested in some player under contract HE IS NOT ALLOWED TOO!!!!

so all we might ever get is leaks that maybe someone is available {and only if it serves a purpose} or report a trade is awaiting conformation {like if a medical might be involved or something} or report that a guy has been asked to waive a NTC {if the agent or player or someone wants to leak it)

i mean we`ve all seen a trade get leaked... or two.. or three... but ive seen idiots like me guess 1 or 2 or 3 trades too

ultimately at the end of the day, most of us can logically figure out a team`s needs... and we can figure out who a gm is probably hoping to trade for... and ho they probably are willing to give up

i have NO DOUBT at all eklund has way more legitimate sources then i do.. or then 99.999% of the posters here do... but he doesnt actually get to know trades before they happen cause thats ILLEGLE and any `source`that was giving him that info would be breaking the laws.

so if we get èntertainment`from eklund or rumor people like him... then enjoy the entertainment but DONT EXPECT ACCURATE REPORTS OF UPCOMING TRADES

and as for the other sources like tsn and sportsnet... they are news sources wanting to he the first place to give us news. and they are entertainment sources wanting to generate ad revenues by having a huge audience.

so you will get some `specualation`on their show to fill air time... and i personally enjoy it. but you will also have them trying to get the announcements of trades before they get released to the general public.

if you have to know everything 3 mins before the rest of the world... i guess thats good. so enjoy it

Alberta_OReilly_Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:55 PM
  #91
VinnyC
vancity, c-bus, 'peg
 
VinnyC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Na'ē panjā
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,769
vCash: 500
He makes hundreds, if not thousands, of rumours every year, makes sure they're relatively ambiguous but not too general (i.e. name 3/4 teams that are "in" for a player or a specific kind of) and sees what sticks. He also makes sure to tweet a trade soon after a legit source does so to give the impression to those that are more naive that he had sources as well.

He didn't even bother calling on the trade that everyone who knew anything saw coming - Zidilcky to Devils. Only one of hockeybuzz' bloggers made a passing mention about him, among other PMD's, being a potential fit. Goes to show how much he actually knows about the league and players.

He has as much credibility as a street prophet - none. There's no journalism in copy and pasting someone else's words and taking hundreds of wild guesses.

I wouldn't be writing any of this is Eklund wasn't considered a legitimate source in this forum - and I think that's the only reason why people bother calling him fraud and backing it up, else he's just another random commando that no one cares about. The fact that he's (de jure) recognized here is probably a big reason why he still keeps up with his deplorable activities.

Might as well make all educated HF posters "sources" because I'd sooner trust them than Eklund.

VinnyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:02 PM
  #92
Medium Rare*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
He makes hundreds, if not thousands, of rumours every year, makes sure they're relatively ambiguous but not too general (i.e. name 3/4 teams that are "in" for a player or a specific kind of) and sees what sticks. He also makes sure to tweet a trade soon after a legit source does so to give the impression to those that are more naive that he had sources as well.
isn't that kind of how trade talks work though? do you think only the team that acquires a player has expressed interest? Its not unreasonable to think that if a useful player is available that the majority of GMs have inquired about the cost of said player. Hell its not even unreasonable to think that most teams inquire about good players that aren't available.

Medium Rare* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:12 PM
  #93
Xander Crews
Genius Poster
 
Xander Crews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: TORONTO HOCKEY TOWN!
Posts: 1,032
vCash: 500
To be fair to Eklund (I know I must be crazy right?) people who calculate his % are always out to get him and dont use reading comprehension. He says Buffalo is interested in player A and then if Buffalo doesnt get player A they say hes wrong... but he probably was right and Buffalo was interested in him. People who are out to prove him wrong like to use things like that to make him look even worse then he does on his own.

Also when he says Player A will go to Boston, Toronto, or New York and then they go to Toronto those same people calculate that as only 33% right on his guesses... even though he was 100% on his guesses cause that player did got to one of those 3 which was his guess.

Oh and lets not forget that anytime he gets one right people says its not his rumor so hes just copying someone else but everything he gets wrong is 100% on him.

Just alittle devils advocate when you look at what he got right.

Xander Crews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:17 PM
  #94
Medium Rare*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander Crews View Post
To be fair to Eklund (I know I must be crazy right?) people who calculate his % are always out to get him and dont use reading comprehension. He says Buffalo is interested in player A and then if Buffalo doesnt get player A they say hes wrong... but he probably was right and Buffalo was interested in him. People who are out to prove him wrong like to use things like that to make him look even worse then he does on his own.

Also when he says Player A will go to Boston, Toronto, or New York and then they go to Toronto those same people calculate that as only 33% right on his guesses... even though he was 100% on his guesses cause that player did got to one of those 3 which was his guess.

Oh and lets not forget that anytime he gets one right people says its not his rumor so hes just copying someone else but everything he gets wrong is 100% on him.

Just alittle devils advocate when you look at what he got right.
this is exactly what I am trying to say. I am not advocating for the guy just trying to be fair.

Medium Rare* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:21 PM
  #95
VinnyC
vancity, c-bus, 'peg
 
VinnyC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Na'ē panjā
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
isn't that kind of how trade talks work though? do you think only the team that acquires a player has expressed interest? Its not unreasonable to think that if a useful player is available that the majority of GMs have inquired about the cost of said player. Hell its not even unreasonable to think that most teams inquire about good players that aren't available.
Sure, that's a fair enough position. I don't disagree with you at all. But given the amount of times the Eklund has deliberately (attempted to) mislead his followers and the amount of hype he puts behind every statement he makes, I don't have any reason to believe that he's just reporting what's on his mind, rather than what reliable sources have to say.

Anyone can make a twitter and a blog and start throwing out wild speculations like "Burke talking to Chiarelli about Seguin!! Stay tuned!!!!!" to feed the imagination of hopeful (or upset) fans and get the fire going. Worst case scenario, "eh uh Burke just asked him, man. Meant nuthin' in the end".

VinnyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:26 PM
  #96
flameaholic
Registered User
 
flameaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,977
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
It still amazes me that people pay to see this guys "insider info"
What? Who are these idiots? Identify yourselves!

flameaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:29 PM
  #97
Medium Rare*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Sure, that's a fair enough position. I don't disagree with you at all. But given the amount of times the Eklund has deliberately (attempted to) mislead his followers and the amount of hype he puts behind every statement he makes, I don't have any reason to believe that he's just reporting what's on his mind, rather than what reliable sources have to say.

Anyone can make a twitter and a blog and start throwing out wild speculations like "Burke talking to Chiarelli about Seguin!! Stay tuned!!!!!" to feed the imagination of hopeful (or upset) fans and get the fire going. Worst case scenario, "eh uh Burke just asked him, man. Meant nuthin' in the end".
yes, anyone can and many do. but people need to give some credit when its due, look at some of these twitters that pop up, or some guys like incarcerated bob, they make Eklund look like McKenzie. Which tells me he is less than a real reporter (which we all know anyways) but more than some people give him credit for.

Medium Rare* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:39 PM
  #98
Xander Crews
Genius Poster
 
Xander Crews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: TORONTO HOCKEY TOWN!
Posts: 1,032
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Sure, that's a fair enough position. I don't disagree with you at all. But given the amount of times the Eklund has deliberately (attempted to) mislead his followers and the amount of hype he puts behind every statement he makes, I don't have any reason to believe that he's just reporting what's on his mind, rather than what reliable sources have to say.

Anyone can make a twitter and a blog and start throwing out wild speculations like "Burke talking to Chiarelli about Seguin!! Stay tuned!!!!!" to feed the imagination of hopeful (or upset) fans and get the fire going. Worst case scenario, "eh uh Burke just asked him, man. Meant nuthin' in the end".
This is what I agree with you on. I dont at all think Eklund makes things up persay like other people say, I mean it is a fact hes treated as media by teams and im sure he has connections from that alone. He does however I think mislead people on how serious what hes reporting is. He may hear a scout saying the Burke would like to get Stamkos, or something that is true and he did hear it from a real source, but he knows its not going to happen and proceeds to talk about it on his site like its close to done.

So I dont think he makes stuff up or is even wrong really but he does exaggerate everything he hears imo to mislead people into thinking its happening.

Xander Crews is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:42 PM
  #99
Medium Rare*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xander Crews View Post
This is what I agree with you on. I dont at all think Eklund makes things up persay like other people say, I mean it is a fact hes treated as media by teams and im sure he has connections from that alone. He does however I think mislead people on how serious what hes reporting is. He may hear a scout saying the Burke would like to get Stamkos, or something that is true and he did hear it from a real source, but he knows its not going to happen and proceeds to talk about it on his site like its close to done.

So I dont think he makes stuff up or is even wrong really but he does exaggerate everything he hears imo to mislead people into thinking its happening.
I would venture to guess most of his sources are either agents or people that work with agents, his success in free agency is significantly higher than it is when it comes to trades

Medium Rare* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 06:00 PM
  #100
mygameworn
Registered User
 
mygameworn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 1,916
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to mygameworn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medium Rare View Post
yes, anyone can and many do. but people need to give some credit when its due, look at some of these twitters that pop up, or some guys like incarcerated bob, they make Eklund look like McKenzie. Which tells me he is less than a real reporter (which we all know anyways) but more than some people give him credit for.
Bob has been more accurate then Eklund for a LONG time. Not to mention his info in other sports are usually spot on.

mygameworn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.