HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade Deadline Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-28-2012, 03:30 PM
  #601
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,839
vCash: 156
The skaters did their part. The goalie didn't. They scored more than enough goals, and asking them to score even more is pretty ridiculous. Asking Leighton to make a couple extra saves, however, is a different matter.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:36 PM
  #602
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,548
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The skaters did their part. The goalie didn't. They scored more than enough goals, and asking them to score even more is pretty ridiculous. Asking Leighton to make a couple extra saves, however, is a different matter.
Ok, so Leighton shoulders the blame for not making enough saves in the SCF. But gets no credit for the shutouts in Montreal? When he made every same for three out of the five games they play? There, his showing up was a product of the team playing well. Here, when your best scorers aren't scoring and your third defensive pairing is essentially not playing, Leighton is not a product of the team in front of him and he shoulders all the blame.

I get it, your logic only works when it supports what you are arguing! Team game when the team wins, goalie loss when the team loses.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:38 PM
  #603
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,839
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Ok, so Leighton shoulders the blame for not making enough saves in the SCF. But gets no credit for the shutouts in Montreal? When he made every same for three out of the five games they play? There, his showing up was a product of the team playing well. Here, when your best scorers aren't scoring and your third defensive pairing is essentially not playing, Leighton is not a product of the team in front of him and he shoulders all the blame.

I get it, your logic only works when it supports what you are arguing!
Did you watch the Montreal games? Their team got completely manhandled. The one game where they needed to rely on Leighton he folded.

The fact remains: whenever the team really needed to rely on Leighton, (except for what, one period?) he failed. He was, and is, a bad NHL goalie who owes his success to his team.

My logic is sound because it takes into account all factors...unlike yours, which is hell-bent on defending Leighton at all costs and ignoring other factors which show he wasn't terribly important. He was along for the ride, he wasn't pulling the team along.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:46 PM
  #604
Go For It
Registered User
 
Go For It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Collegeville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,056
vCash: 50
Not to interrupt, but haven't we rehashed both sides of this argument to death already?

Go For It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:47 PM
  #605
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,548
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Did you watch the Montreal games? Their team got completely manhandled. The one game where they needed to rely on Leighton he folded.
Three shutouts in a conference finals is an incredible feat. Doesn't matter who is in net, who they are playing, or how the team is playing. There have been TONS of conference finals where one team was severely overmatched, and I'd be willing to bet that the series in Montreal is one of only a few in the history of the NHL that included three shutouts. Your very own logic seems to bolster my feelings on this. It is unfair to ask the skaters to score more when they are already scoring "enough" and it is therefore the goalie's fault they lost. However, it is somehow ok to take away from a goalie who got three shutouts in an ECF because the rest of the team played well.

Quote:
The fact remains: whenever the team really needed to rely on Leighton, (except for what, one period?) he failed. He was, and is, a bad NHL goalie who owes his success to his team.
Hey, I never said (or at least not in two years...) that Leighton was a good goalie. He owes a ton of his success to his team. BECAUSE THIS IS A TEAM GAME. Win as a team. Lose as a team. Very rarely is it one player's fault that a team wins or loses a single game, let alone a series. The Stanley Cup could have been won by the Flyers if THE TEAM PLAYED BETTER. But they didn't. So they lost. Goalies played poorly. 1/3 of the defense played poorly. And our best scorers played poorly.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:47 PM
  #606
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,839
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
Not to interrupt, but haven't we rehashed both sides of this argument to death already?
Go back to your room, Beefy and DFFy are having a discussion.


Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:48 PM
  #607
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,548
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Go back to your room, Beefy and DFFy are having a discussion.

Haha. He does have a point though. This has been a two-plus season long argument...

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:50 PM
  #608
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,839
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Three shutouts in a conference finals is an incredible feat. Doesn't matter who is in net, who they are playing, or how the team is playing. There have been TONS of conference finals where one team was severely overmatched, and I'd be willing to bet that the series in Montreal is one of only a few in the history of the NHL that included three shutouts. Your very own logic seems to bolster my feelings on this. It is unfair to ask the skaters to score more when they are already scoring "enough" and it is therefore the goalie's fault they lost. However, it is somehow ok to take away from a goalie who got three shutouts in an ECF because the rest of the team played well.



Hey, I never said (or at least not in two years...) that Leighton was a good goalie. He owes a ton of his success to his team. BECAUSE THIS IS A TEAM GAME. Win as a team. Lose as a team. Very rarely is it one player's fault that a team wins or loses a single game, let alone a series. The Stanley Cup could have been won by the Flyers if THE TEAM PLAYED BETTER. But they didn't. So they lost. Goalies played poorly. 1/3 of the defense played poorly. And our best scorers played poorly.
The team was so much better than Montreal that anybody could have been in net. Leighton flat out wasn't challenged, except in one game...and he lost. Most of the shots he faced were easy perimeter shots. That series was an awesome mismatch.

And, sorry, but the team played good enough in the SCF. All they needed was some saves from their goalie and they didn't get them. Asking the team to do more is absurd, they did everything they could and were let down by their goaltending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haha. He does have a point though. This has been a two-plus season long argument...
Careful, or you'll be sleeping on the couch tonight.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 02-28-2012 at 03:50 PM. Reason: merged
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:53 PM
  #609
Go For It
Registered User
 
Go For It's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Collegeville, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,056
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Go back to your room, Beefy and DFFy are having a discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Haha. He does have a point though. This has been a two-plus season long argument...
At least we know that Leighton didn't earn his contract that season.


Go For It is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 03:57 PM
  #610
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,548
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The team was so much better than Montreal that anybody could have been in net. Leighton flat out wasn't challenged, except in one game...and he lost. Most of the shots he faced were easy perimeter shots. That series was an awesome mismatch.
I disagree. So many teams get manhandled in the playoffs and in the regular season and aren't shutout. I mean think of all the goalies out there that have let up goals in games where the other team is absolutely dominated. Three shutouts in five games (regular season or playoffs) is one hell of a feat regardless of the quality of shots, etc. If it wasn't we would see it a lot more.

Quote:
And, sorry, but the team played good enough in the SCF. All they needed was some saves from their goalie and they didn't get them. Asking the team to do more is absurd, they did everything they could and were let down by their goaltending.
So asking the team's three best players to do only slightly more is absurd, but asking their worst player to do slightly more is not. An interesting stat...Jeff Carter had the best +/- of the three and he was -6. That is unacceptable from your three best players, regardless of how poor your defense and goalie are. Gagne was -8. Richards was -7. They combined for 4 goals. Expecting them to do more is a travesty.



Quote:
Careful, or you'll be sleeping on the couch tonight.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:12 PM
  #611
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
Country: England
Posts: 12,053
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The team was so much better than Montreal that anybody could have been in net. Leighton flat out wasn't challenged, except in one game...and he lost. Most of the shots he faced were easy perimeter shots. That series was an awesome mismatch.

And, sorry, but the team played good enough in the SCF. All they needed was some saves from their goalie and they didn't get them. Asking the team to do more is absurd, they did everything they could and were let down by their goaltending.



.
you mean those same easy perimeter shots that Bryz is letting in routinely ???

Flyerfan4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:15 PM
  #612
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,183
vCash: 500
Let's present some facts.

-We scored nearly 4 goals per game. Doesn't matter where it came from. We scored nearly 4 goals a game on average.

-Michael Leighton posted atrocious numbers and, by the accounts of most fans who watched the games, played horribly.

-Michael Leighton let in quite possibly the worst Stanley Cup winning goal ever and in a game six no less.

-Michael Leighton, with the exception of brief parts of the 09-10 season, has always been an AHL goalie. AHL goalie. In fact, he currently plays in the AHL. Also, even when he did post good numbers in 09-10, with exceptions, it was noted by a lot of fans on this website, myself included, that Leighton played horribly and had an all-star defense cover up for him to help post those numbers.

Taking all those facts into consideration I can safely say that, yes, Michael Leighton is a horrible NHL goaltender and lost, or at the very least very greatly contributed, to us losing a potential Stanley Cup. That's what I know.

Garbage Goal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:21 PM
  #613
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,422
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Let's present some facts.

-We scored nearly 4 goals per game. Doesn't matter where it came from. We scored nearly 4 goals a game on average.

-Michael Leighton posted atrocious numbers and, by the accounts of most fans who watched the games, played horribly.

-Michael Leighton let in quite possibly the worst Stanley Cup winning goal ever and in a game six no less.

-Michael Leighton, with the exception of brief parts of the 09-10 season, has always been an AHL goalie. AHL goalie. In fact, he currently plays in the AHL. Also, even when he did post good numbers in 09-10, with exceptions, it was noted by a lot of fans on this website, myself included, that Leighton played horribly and had an all-star defense cover up for him to help post those numbers.

Taking all those facts into consideration I can safely say that, yes, Michael Leighton is a horrible NHL goaltender and lost, or at the very least very greatly contributed, to us losing a potential Stanley Cup. That's what I know.
If you look back at the quotes from Holmgren after the fact..he specifically said that although Leighton was not completely at fault he said "he didn't give the team a chance to win." I remember it clear as day and the admission is not exactly some surprising revelation. Now he also called out some other players or at least said they didn't have enough and suggested better conditioning would help them get over the top that is why Lavi with the close out interviews impressed it upon the players that although they would have a shortened offseason he wanted them to come into camp better conditioned. Now I'm not going to bring up who he mentioned bc the hens will decend like they always do when certain names are brought up but Holmgren did mention other names other than LOL-EIGHTON....

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 04:58 PM
  #614
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,447
vCash: 500
Since this is the TRADE DEADLINE thread, wanted to say Timmy P commented on the whole SJ wanted JVR thing. Wilson said he wanted JVR, Homer asked if Couturer was available and Wilson said no, so Homer then said no.

On another note, how cool/confusing would it have been to have Couturier-Coutuer on the same line LOL

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:16 PM
  #615
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,839
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Since this is the TRADE DEADLINE thread, wanted to say Timmy P commented on the whole SJ wanted JVR thing. Wilson said he wanted JVR, Homer asked if Couturer was available and Wilson said no, so Homer then said no.

On another note, how cool/confusing would it have been to have Couturier-Coutuer on the same line LOL
I wouldn't have been able to handle that. Can you imagine Coatsey trying to deal with that?

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:18 PM
  #616
Flyerfan4life
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
Country: England
Posts: 12,053
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Since this is the TRADE DEADLINE thread, wanted to say Timmy P commented on the whole SJ wanted JVR thing. Wilson said he wanted JVR, Homer asked if Couturer was available and Wilson said no, so Homer then said no.

On another note, how cool/confusing would it have been to have Couturier-Coutuer on the same line LOL
UGH, yea that would be crazy esp. if ur listening on radio alone.. hahaah GL with that

Flyerfan4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:25 PM
  #617
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Since this is the TRADE DEADLINE thread, wanted to say Timmy P commented on the whole SJ wanted JVR thing. Wilson said he wanted JVR, Homer asked if Couturer was available and Wilson said no, so Homer then said no.

On another note, how cool/confusing would it have been to have Couturier-Coutuer on the same line LOL
Well it shows how much Homer values JVR. So now the Toronto fans will still offer their crap for him on the trade board. Couture is a player I would have loved to trade JVR for haha. Both teams are smart and decided against it

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:37 PM
  #618
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 17,183
vCash: 500
Am I really the only one that would trade JVR for Niemi?

Garbage Goal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:38 PM
  #619
RetiredFlyer
Rookie User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Well it shows how much Homer values JVR. So now the Toronto fans will still offer their crap for him on the trade board. Couture is a player I would have loved to trade JVR for haha. Both teams are smart and decided against it
It was never even close.

SJ's GM apparently called Homer and said "We'd like to trade Niemi for JVR" and Homer was obviously offended at such a crap offer so he said "and we'd like to trade JVR for Couture" and then they both hung up.

Actually pretty funny on Homer's part to roll w/ the punches and make an equally bad offer. Perhaps he's been trolling hfboards trade section?

RetiredFlyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 05:41 PM
  #620
RetiredFlyer
Rookie User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Am I really the only one that would trade JVR for Niemi?
For the second time now... SJ offered Niemi for JVR straight up.

Bryzgalov was not involved. Bryzgalov is untradeable right now to any other location.

Do you really expect the Flyers to drop over 9.5M dollars in cap space on goaltending annually?

And how do you become cap compliant for this season? Niemi would put us over the cap. Gotta drop someone else off our roster beside JVR.

Niemi for JVR+Bryz might have been fair.

Niemi for JVR is horrendous.

RetiredFlyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 06:14 PM
  #621
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredFlyer View Post
It was never even close.

SJ's GM apparently called Homer and said "We'd like to trade Niemi for JVR" and Homer was obviously offended at such a crap offer so he said "and we'd like to trade JVR for Couture" and then they both hung up.

Actually pretty funny on Homer's part to roll w/ the punches and make an equally bad offer. Perhaps he's been trolling hfboards trade section?
Couture and JVR have similar offensive ceilings.

Couture : JVR is FAAAAAAAAAAAAR closer than Niemi : JVR.

Quite frankly, would you trade Leighton for JVR? I would too.

Would you trade Couturier (Couture) for JVR? Probably not, but it's something to consider.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 08:31 PM
  #622
SeanCWombBroom
DownieFaceSoftener
 
SeanCWombBroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,787
vCash: 500

SeanCWombBroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 08:37 PM
  #623
SeanCWombBroom
DownieFaceSoftener
 
SeanCWombBroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,787
vCash: 500
Here Chris.


SeanCWombBroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-28-2012, 08:40 PM
  #624
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Here Chris.


CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.