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Old
02-28-2012, 06:21 PM
  #26
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
If you're in your 30's 40's+ the Habs as they are right now are a pathetic excuse of an organization. You have to understand that these people saw great teams, great players, great coaches, cups, etc....so they have a right to be pissed/grumpy.

It's the younger crowd who were not around for the glory years and have nothing to compare the current team to that don't seem to think things are that dire.

The franchise is irrelevant and almost embarassing.
It is sad actually. No top ten scorer in the last 25 years, little in the way of elite talent... a lot of people don't know what it's like to see a true superstar play for their team. The closest we've seen is Andrei Markov and Alexei Kovalev.

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02-28-2012, 06:34 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
It is sad actually. No top ten scorer in the last 25 years, little in the way of elite talent... a lot of people don't know what it's like to see a true superstar play for their team. The closest we've seen is Andrei Markov and Alexei Kovalev.
Yup. I mean, most fans probably started to really follow the Habs after the Roy era. Hell, probably during the Hacket days when the team was craptacular....so in comes Gainey and the Habs get better. Markov, Souray, Price, Koivu (who I was told was the greatest Habs captain ). Habs start going to the playoffs and pulling off some improbable wins against the Bruins....then it all comes to a head and they get to the final four. That is as good as it has gotten for MANY fans on this board. So they're comparing this team to the early 2000 teams and things look pretty good from that point.

However, the older fans are comparing these teams to the Roy teams and the 70's, etc. I almost felt like crying when the Habs missed the playoffs in 99. It had never happened in my entire existence at that point. Habs were built with character guys, some true goal scorers, fighters, hitters, etc. Guys that took pride in wearing the jersey. Guys who would cry when they were traded. It's different now.

I understand where Red is coming from.

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02-28-2012, 07:18 PM
  #28
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Isn't it strange though that the guy we bring in as a backup plan for Markov generates zero interest? This is a guy we gave a raise to... why? And one of our best forwards only nets a 2nd rounder? C'mon man.

And btw, just as an aside... why were these the only guys we were looking to move? That made no sense either.

Doesn't it say something to you though that nobody was beating down the door for our guys? I mean really apart from three or four players on our roster who would other clubs REALLY want to have? Pacman, Price, Subban, Cole and Pleks. We wasted one of our best assets in Cammy. They're the only guys who are going to net a premium. Bourque? Kaberle? Gomez? Even Gionta... nobody really wants those guys and even Eller wouldn't be a huge return. We've built a team of leftovers and folks don't want sloppy seconds. Most of those guys would generate ZERO interest and that's exactly what happened.

One of our best forwards is only worth a 2nd rounder? Sad.
Not really Campoli is a sack of ****, ottawa fleeced chicago last year for him and coincidentally they were one of the teams trading for d men besides boston. You are confusing back up plan for last resort in september. GM's dont seem to be trading for guys with term left because they dont want to have to keep them if it doesnt work out. Gaustad was the only forward to bring a first back but he is a top notch 3/4 C, so it really isnt that surprising AK got a touch less considering he is a 3rd liner with alot of talent at this point, and talent doesnt net you value after so many years in the league.

The lack of talent is severely exaggerated in the article and the blame goes directly to PG. *****es about Staubitz like he was acquired to lift this team to the playoffs or do anything besides fight some people the rest of the season. They are missing the superstar and #1 d man but hopefully markov can still play hockey when he gets back.

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02-28-2012, 07:28 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
If you're in your 30's 40's+ the Habs as they are right now are a pathetic excuse of an organization. You have to understand that these people saw great teams, great players, great coaches, cups, etc....so they have a right to be pissed/grumpy.

It's the younger crowd who were not around for the glory years and have nothing to compare the current team to that don't seem to think things are that dire.

The franchise is irrelevant and almost embarassing.
Unlike the franchise, your post is very relevant.

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02-28-2012, 08:14 PM
  #30
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The NHL is not the same anymore. There will no longer be such thing as a dynasty. The league is full of parity, and any team can do anything during any season. And I like it more like that.

I'm tired of veteran Habs fans complaining about how bad the Habs are and blaming it all on management like we should somehow just grow a superstar or two out of the garden in our backyard and be consistent Cup champs. Nothing works like that anymore.

The only team even close to being called a dynasty is the Detroit Red Wings, and even they don't get as far in the playoffs consistently as a real dynasty would. The NHL is different, live with it. It isn't just management's fault anymore, it is so much more.

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02-28-2012, 08:21 PM
  #31
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Not really Campoli is a sack of ****, ottawa fleeced chicago last year for him and coincidentally they were one of the teams trading for d men besides boston. You are confusing back up plan for last resort in september. GM's dont seem to be trading for guys with term left because they dont want to have to keep them if it doesnt work out. Gaustad was the only forward to bring a first back but he is a top notch 3/4 C, so it really isnt that surprising AK got a touch less considering he is a 3rd liner with alot of talent at this point, and talent doesnt net you value after so many years in the league.
So then what the hell were we thinking going after this guy in the first place? Why do we wait until the last minute and then react? Why don't we take a more proactive stance? It's one knee jerk reaction after another.

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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
The lack of talent is severely exaggerated in the article and the blame goes directly to PG. *****es about Staubitz like he was acquired to lift this team to the playoffs or do anything besides fight some people the rest of the season. They are missing the superstar and #1 d man but hopefully markov can still play hockey when he gets back.
Is it? I don't think Red is saying that the cupboard is bare... Look at our club man, there's not a whole lot to write home about. Three strong young players is great but we have to hope they all turn out great because there's not a whole lot to get excited about aside from them.

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02-28-2012, 08:24 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Yup. I mean, most fans probably started to really follow the Habs after the Roy era. Hell, probably during the Hacket days when the team was craptacular....so in comes Gainey and the Habs get better. Markov, Souray, Price, Koivu (who I was told was the greatest Habs captain ). Habs start going to the playoffs and pulling off some improbable wins against the Bruins....then it all comes to a head and they get to the final four. That is as good as it has gotten for MANY fans on this board. So they're comparing this team to the early 2000 teams and things look pretty good from that point.

However, the older fans are comparing these teams to the Roy teams and the 70's, etc. I almost felt like crying when the Habs missed the playoffs in 99. It had never happened in my entire existence at that point. Habs were built with character guys, some true goal scorers, fighters, hitters, etc. Guys that took pride in wearing the jersey. Guys who would cry when they were traded. It's different now.

I understand where Red is coming from.
Even in the years after the dynasty 70s teams we had some good clubs in the late 80s. I remember the feeling before a game of expecting to win. It certainly wasn't a guarantee but we always expected to win. That feeling has been gone for a long, long time now.

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02-28-2012, 08:28 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lemons View Post
This guy should stop writing now.


We failed. Gainey's plan, our new acquisitions, our experiment or whatever you want to call it. Thats because management has always put faith in this team to put up a perennial competing team. Things did not pan out. At least management have come to accept it. We traded away UFAs to the best of our abilities (AK, Gill). We KNOW we're a cellar team and the frustration that is going to build up in the locker room and on the ice. With that into account, getting a physical fighter helps on two things.

1) Ease the players frustration and give/build morale when a player fights for them.

2) Appease the crowd on a team not bound for the playoffs.

Our future is bright. Beaulieu, Tinordi, Gallagher, Patches, PRice, PK, Eller are great pieces to push the franchise into the future. All we are missing is a superstar potential player (Grigorenko/Yakupov)


Shut the **** up Red Fisher. Habs are not going to win while you're alive, sorry to break it to you.
Maybe you should go back to your cave, Red Fischer has more wisdom and intelligence in his little finger that could ever hope to possess. The futur is bright? NONE of the guys you wrote are proven commodity except Price, PK and Patch.

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02-28-2012, 08:35 PM
  #34
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The team didn't work out this year. They could have been easily in the playoffs, but everything that could go wrong did go wrong. A few questionable decisions by management multiplied by some rough stretches pretty much sealed the deal.

Get a good pick, make some bold offseason moves, and be back next year. We have some good young pieces and some quality veterans, but lots of work to do in the offseason.

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02-28-2012, 08:43 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So then what the hell were we thinking going after this guy in the first place? Why do we wait until the last minute and then react? Why don't we take a more proactive stance? It's one knee jerk reaction after another.


Is it? I don't think Red is saying that the cupboard is bare... Look at our club man, there's not a whole lot to write home about. Three strong young players is great but we have to hope they all turn out great because there's not a whole lot to get excited about aside from them.
What else could he sign in september? It was desperation for a bad situation. PG should be blamed for what has happened but the fact that this guy uses the trade deadline to vent or prove his point is stupid.

He called them losers and said no one wants any of their players. It is like he is venting about a **** season and decides to use this to prove his point which he didnt need to do because there is plenty of supporting evidence for PG to be fired. Even if RC wasnt thrown under the bus he wouldnt be back because he cant coach at the NHL level. Accountability for vets and a forecheck that is all he has changed.
There is a solid foundation they just need to get a superstar (not easy) and more d depth since the prospects are still a few years away.

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02-28-2012, 08:54 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Even in the years after the dynasty 70s teams we had some good clubs in the late 80s. I remember the feeling before a game of expecting to win. It certainly wasn't a guarantee but we always expected to win. That feeling has been gone for a long, long time now.
You're very right. It was so different. Even if the team didn't have that great of a season, they still had a legit shot at winning the cup. The expectations were higher back then, but they were also realistic. This whole crap about fighting for eight and "anything can happen" happened in the mid/late 2000's.

That 88-89 team was frigging legendary.

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02-28-2012, 08:56 PM
  #37
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Fact: the Habs are last in the conference.
Fact: our offence sucks, nobody in the top 50.
Fact: our defence sucks. That's a given.

Well, I'd say that Mr. Fisher is partly right.

This is a sad, sad year for a storied franchise. Finishing close to last with a 67M (or close to) payroll is downright humiliating for an proud owner like Molson (and his multiple partners).

Gauthier is gone. For sure.

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02-28-2012, 08:58 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Fact: the Habs are last in the conference.
Fact: our offence sucks, nobody in the top 50.
Fact: our defence sucks. That's a given.

Well, I'd say that Mr. Fisher is partly right.

This is a sad, sad year for a storied franchise. Finishing close to last with a 67M (or close to) payroll is downright humiliating for an proud owner like Molson (and his multiple partners).

Gauthier is gone. For sure.
There you have it. Summed up perfectly.

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02-28-2012, 08:58 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
The NHL is not the same anymore. There will no longer be such thing as a dynasty. The league is full of parity, and any team can do anything during any season. And I like it more like that.

I'm tired of veteran Habs fans complaining about how bad the Habs are and blaming it all on management like we should somehow just grow a superstar or two out of the garden in our backyard and be consistent Cup champs. Nothing works like that anymore.

The only team even close to being called a dynasty is the Detroit Red Wings, and even they don't get as far in the playoffs consistently as a real dynasty would. The NHL is different, live with it. It isn't just management's fault anymore, it is so much more.
Nobody's expecting a dynasty. How old are you man? Are you old enough to remember those clubs of the 80s? They were post dynasty clubs that were tough to play against. When you stepped into the Forum it was OUR house. That feeling just doesn't exist anymore. Ribeiro scores and does a little shuffle and it's all a big joke. That just doesn't happen with the clubs we used to have.

Ribeiro would've been pounded into dust, if not by fists then by hits every time he got near the boards. That club would've made it their personal mission to destroy the Stars on that night. There was a feeling of character on those clubs and while we weren't super highly skilled, we had enough that we could score. The club knew how to win and it was respected across the league. That's just long gone now.

Of course you'll try to paint it as Dynasty or Bust... nobody is expecting us to go get Lafleur, Dryden and co. But we can do a hell of a lot better than we have. You can apologize for management all you want but they've done a crap job for a decade and a half. And before you come back with the pathetic... 'but we made it to the Conference finals once and had one season where we were in 1st place'... just save it. There is nothing to crow about when you have one season that sticks out like a sore thumb and a playoff run where we shouldn't have been in the playoffs in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
What else could he sign in september?
Why the hell was he doing looking for a blueliner... IN SEPTEMBER??????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
It was desperation for a bad situation. PG should be blamed for what has happened but the fact that this guy uses the trade deadline to vent or prove his point is stupid.
Exactly, it was a desperate move. And why was it desperate? Because the guy was an idiot and couldn't see that Markov was an injury risk. So... he waits until we find out that Markov is very predictably hurt and then desperately goes out on a last minute a knee jerk reactive panic search and gives a guy without a freakin' job on the eve of the season a raise to come here.

Then... he compounds this stupidity with another reactive panic move and ties us to TK even though we're already looking like we're going to miss the playoffs.

Dumb.

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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
He called them losers and said no one wants any of their players. It is like he is venting about a **** season and decides to use this to prove his point which he didnt need to do because there is plenty of supporting evidence for PG to be fired. Even if RC wasnt thrown under the bus he wouldnt be back because he cant coach at the NHL level. Accountability for vets and a forecheck that is all he has changed.
Dude... we're in last place. We ARE losers. And nobody wanted our players at the deadline. That's just plain true. We had guys we wanted to sell but they're a bunch of losers so nobody wanted them. Seriously... who wants Campioli, Gomez or Kaberle? Nobody.

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There is a solid foundation they just need to get a superstar (not easy) and more d depth since the prospects are still a few years away.
There is wishful thinking not a solid foundation. We have three players that we can count on for the future and that's it. We're not one player away man. We have some decent prospects but we're not the Oilers. And we just placed 28th in HF... are they a bunch of 'haters' too? Seriously man open your eyes. We've got some okay prospects but so does every other team out there.

You need to go back and read this article again with an open mind. Yes, it's a rant but there's a lot more truth to it than you're willing to admit.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 02-28-2012 at 09:05 PM.
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02-28-2012, 09:00 PM
  #40
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And the Gauthier apologists continue on with their alternate view of reality.

Red Fisher is exactly correct and will continue to be correct as long as the idiot Gauthier stays as GM.

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02-28-2012, 09:01 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
The NHL is not the same anymore. There will no longer be such thing as a dynasty. The league is full of parity, and any team can do anything during any season. And I like it more like that.

I'm tired of veteran Habs fans complaining about how bad the Habs are and blaming it all on management like we should somehow just grow a superstar or two out of the garden in our backyard and be consistent Cup champs. Nothing works like that anymore.

The only team even close to being called a dynasty is the Detroit Red Wings, and even they don't get as far in the playoffs consistently as a real dynasty would. The NHL is different, live with it. It isn't just management's fault anymore, it is so much more.
Of course the league is different. But does that excuse the Gomez trade or not negotiating contracts during the season? What about hiring an anglo coach and then apologizing to the fans for it. Or trading good young players for nothing. NONE OF THAT has to do with the "new NHL". I'm also tired of people making excuses for this piss poor management.

Hab fans want a competitive team. I see nothing wrong with wanting a team to actually improve from fighting for 8th every year.

I don't see the Steelers, Lakers, Yankees talking about "times have changed". What do these teams have in common? Solid management where winning is all that matters.

I don't think I've been more embarassed as a fan. Fail all around. 3rd worst record in the NHL. bottom 5 farm team. One of the highest payrolls in the league

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02-28-2012, 09:07 PM
  #42
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Just wanna throw it out there since I dont really dont know where to put it but Marinaro just tweeted that hes 100% sure Gauthier will step down at seasons end and Gainey will no longer be authorized to make decisions. Just for those who are really thinking Gauthier will go nowhere.

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02-28-2012, 09:09 PM
  #43
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And the Gauthier apologists continue on with their alternate view of reality.

Red Fisher is exactly correct and will continue to be correct as long as the idiot Gauthier stays as GM.
The fact that their player movement was left at the minimum yesterday says a lot about the leash Gauthier and Gainey and the rest of the incompetents had. It's a given Molson is going to clean house.

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02-28-2012, 09:41 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Nobody's expecting a dynasty. How old are you man? Are you old enough to remember those clubs of the 80s? They were post dynasty clubs that were tough to play against. When you stepped into the Forum it was OUR house. That feeling just doesn't exist anymore. Ribeiro scores and does a little shuffle and it's all a big joke. That just doesn't happen with the clubs we used to have.

Ribeiro would've been pounded into dust, if not by fists then by hits every time he got near the boards. That club would've made it their personal mission to destroy the Stars on that night. There was a feeling of character on those clubs and while we weren't super highly skilled, we had enough that we could score. The club knew how to win and it was respected across the league. That's just long gone now.

Of course you'll try to paint it as Dynasty or Bust... nobody is expecting us to go get Lafleur, Dryden and co. But we can do a hell of a lot better than we have. You can apologize for management all you want but they've done a crap job for a decade and a half. And before you come back with the pathetic... 'but we made it to the Conference finals once and had one season where we were in 1st place'... just save it. There is nothing to crow about when you have one season that sticks out like a sore thumb and a playoff run where we shouldn't have been in the playoffs in the first place.

Why the hell was he doing looking for a blueliner... IN SEPTEMBER??????

Exactly, it was a desperate move. And why was it desperate? Because the guy was an idiot and couldn't see that Markov was an injury risk. So... he waits until we find out that Markov is very predictably hurt and then desperately goes out on a last minute a knee jerk reactive panic search and gives a guy without a freakin' job on the eve of the season a raise to come here.

Then... he compounds this stupidity with another reactive panic move and ties us to TK even though we're already looking like we're going to miss the playoffs.

Dumb.


Dude... we're in last place. We ARE losers. And nobody wanted our players at the deadline. That's just plain true. We had guys we wanted to sell but they're a bunch of losers so nobody wanted them. Seriously... who wants Campioli, Gomez or Kaberle? Nobody.


There is wishful thinking not a solid foundation. We have three players that we can count on for the future and that's it. We're not one player away man. We have some decent prospects but we're not the Oilers. And we just placed 28th in HF... are they a bunch of 'haters' too? Seriously man open your eyes. We've got some okay prospects but so does every other team out there.

You need to go back and read this article again with an open mind. Yes, it's a rant but there's a lot more truth to it than you're willing to admit.
They have Plekanec, DD, cole, pacioretty, eller, white, moen for fowards to keep, and Subban Gorges, Emelin, and diaz for D.

Then there is LL, geoffrion who need to find their place. So they need some top line talent and some D. I never said they had everything, and it definitely isnt as bad as this guy is saying.

Who said anything about prospects? I am not even trying to take any blame away from PG here I am saying this guy used a ****** reason to write about what he did and could have done it using just the facts. Saying nobody wanted our players is lumping all the others in with campoli, gomez and kaberle.

Yeah the team is losing but it doesnt make them all losers.

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02-28-2012, 09:49 PM
  #45
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I find it hilariously ironic that this is an article from the CALGARY herald

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02-28-2012, 09:49 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
They have Plekanec, DD, cole, pacioretty, eller, white, moen for fowards to keep, and Subban Gorges, Emelin, and diaz for D.

Then there is LL, geoffrion who need to find their place. So they need some top line talent and some D. I never said they had everything, and it definitely isnt as bad as this guy is saying.
LL, Geoffrion and even Eller and DD aren't proven. That's not a collection to write home about man. We don't even know if Eller is going to be anything more than 3rd or 2nd line material.

I'm sorry but you listing these players helps Fisher's case more than it does yours.


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Who said anything about prospects? I am not even trying to take any blame away from PG here I am saying this guy used a ****** reason to write about what he did and could have done it using just the facts. Saying nobody wanted our players is lumping all the others in with campoli, gomez and kaberle.

Yeah the team is losing but it doesnt make them all losers.
Where did he say they were ALL losers?

Gomez, Kaberle, Bourque, Campioli even AK garnered zero interest. I'm sorry but when your 2nd best scorer is landing offers of a 2nd round pick you know you're in bad shape.

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02-28-2012, 09:55 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Fact: the Habs are last in the conference.
Fact: our offence sucks, nobody in the top 50.
Fact: our defence sucks. That's a given.

Well, I'd say that Mr. Fisher is partly right.

This is a sad, sad year for a storied franchise. Finishing close to last with a 67M (or close to) payroll is downright humiliating for an proud owner like Molson (and his multiple partners).

Gauthier is gone. For sure.
I take issue by you saying Molson is a proud owner. He's a little rich kid with a silver spoon in his mouth. Unlike his grand-father, he has never earned what he made. He was given part of the empire. To him the Habs are a toy that he managed to break rather quickly.

Just my 2 cents.

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02-28-2012, 10:04 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by FeelsLike93 View Post
Just wanna throw it out there since I dont really dont know where to put it but Marinaro just tweeted that hes 100% sure Gauthier will step down at seasons end and Gainey will no longer be authorized to make decisions. Just for those who are really thinking Gauthier will go nowhere.
I had a hunch he was going to step down. I thought about this the other day. They don't want to make it look bad as it is firing PG.

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02-28-2012, 10:18 PM
  #49
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I disagree about Staubitz though. He lost his job in Minny not because he couldn't cut it anymore, but because his spot was given to another tough enforcer there. So they didn't need him anymore.
I fail to see how this mean he's AHL material.

He's a goon, and we had none. We have the most useless 4th line in the NHL. I think the right way to say things would be that ''if Staubitz couldn't cut it in Mtl, then he's AHL bound''.

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02-28-2012, 10:55 PM
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SouthernHab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
The fact that their player movement was left at the minimum yesterday says a lot about the leash Gauthier and Gainey and the rest of the incompetents had. It's a given Molson is going to clean house.
Yes, as frustrating the lack of movement yesterday, there is probably a silver lining behind it all. I will remain hopeful that we get a housecleaning.

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