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How will the treatment of veterans affect the Habs' ability to sign FAs?

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02-28-2012, 09:28 PM
  #1
SlipperyPete
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How will the treatment of veterans affect the Habs' ability to sign FAs?

There are obviously some big decisions to be made this offseason. After a season such as this, there need to be some bold moves to try to change the culture of the team. One such move would be to say, "it doesn't matter who you are, if you're not performing, we don't want you on the team" - and either buyout or bury in the minors Gomez and Kaberle.

This would probably be the best thing for the team, and the quickest way to move forward. It would take Molson accepting a financial hit, but clearly a bold move is necessary.

My question is this: would this negatively affect our ability to attract free agents? Would the Habs be seen as a team that disrespects veteran players? Even if they deserve such treatment, other players and the union tend to look down on those types of mercenary moves by teams.

What do you guys think? And for the time being, I'd like to set aside the question of whether or not Molson and the Habs' management would even take this step.

PS - My first thread started - hope it provokes a decent discussion.

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02-29-2012, 09:03 AM
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montreal
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Hard to say, up until we landed Cammy/Gio/Moen/Gill as UFA's, the Habs had not had much luck in getting UFA's to play here as it seemed like we were always rumored to be in on the top players but they always signed somewhere else. Now that the team is a complete mess it makes you wonder how they would attract any UFA's unless said UFA is just about the money and the Habs overpay by a lot (since they often have to overpay to get UFA's here)

If they were to bury Gomez in the minors or buy him out, I don't think it would impact future UFA's as a guess (since it's impossible to know what players are thinking) but with his brutal play this year I would assume players would understand that this is a business and if you get 7 or 8 million dollars a year to play hockey you better produce and if you don't then something has to be done about it.

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02-29-2012, 09:08 AM
  #3
uiCk
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probably won't come here unless the usuall overpayment, and even then.

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02-29-2012, 09:11 AM
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habs03
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No different than before, might need to overpay for taxes and so forth but thats it. Even with the "circus", MTL was voted as the 6th team that players would like to play in this year player poll.

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02-29-2012, 09:15 AM
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habs03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlipperyPete View Post
There are obviously some big decisions to be made this offseason. After a season such as this, there need to be some bold moves to try to change the culture of the team. One such move would be to say, "it doesn't matter who you are, if you're not performing, we don't want you on the team" - and either buyout or bury in the minors Gomez and Kaberle.

This would probably be the best thing for the team, and the quickest way to move forward. It would take Molson accepting a financial hit, but clearly a bold move is necessary.

My question is this: would this negatively affect our ability to attract free agents? Would the Habs be seen as a team that disrespects veteran players? Even if they deserve such treatment, other players and the union tend to look down on those types of mercenary moves by teams.

What do you guys think? And for the time being, I'd like to set aside the question of whether or not Molson and the Habs' management would even take this step.

PS - My first thread started - hope it provokes a decent discussion.
Zidlicky is all I have to say...

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02-29-2012, 09:17 AM
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Kriss E
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I think it all depends on management and coaching.
I have no idea how PG is respected in the NHL, but I can't imagine how any player would want to play for RC.
So it's not just about paying more. If I were a player I wouldn't sign in an organization that have a coach I have no interest playing for. I won't sign without learning more about him if I know nothing about him and I have a hard time finding positive things to say about RC.

If we want to have a chance at the open market, we need to replace management and coaching before.

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02-29-2012, 09:17 AM
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YMCMBeaulieu
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Career AHLers will probably be lining up to sign here after seeing Darche getting top 2 line minutes.

In all honesty I think UFAs will consider who is coaching here to be important, I doubt many UFAs will be interested in playing for a guy like Cunneyworth after seeing the job he has done. If we can get a veteran winning coach like Carlyle it'd help our cause with recruiting UFAs compared to keeping Cunney or getting another rookie coach.

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02-29-2012, 09:21 AM
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The UFAs will notice that the Habs give tons of ice time to players that perform poorly, so they will want to come here.

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02-29-2012, 09:23 AM
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llamateizer
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NYR buried Drury and Redden.

have they been able to sign big UFA?
Richards/Gaborik

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02-29-2012, 09:24 AM
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lou4gehrig
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How are we different than any other team? Philly was talking about trading Bryzgalov already. Zdlicky is a good example. PLayers like Rolston, Gomez, Havlat were all traded / dumped for underperforming.

I'm just curious why the fans here seems to feel sorry for themselves all the time and assume everything we do and have is worse than everybody else? Maybe we should just watch the games when they're on and not spend too much time overnanalyzing why we saw PK giving Plek the stink eye during the last 5 minutes of practice.

The only thing that really matters is winning. If we brought a young, skilled core to this team, that will draw free agents. Great hockey city, great city to live and amazing tradition. All we need is more top end talent.

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02-29-2012, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
How are we different than any other team? Philly was talking about trading Bryzgalov already. Zdlicky is a good example. PLayers like Rolston, Gomez, Havlat were all traded / dumped for underperforming.

I'm just curious why the fans here seems to feel sorry for themselves all the time and assume everything we do and have is worse than everybody else? Maybe we should just watch the games when they're on and not spend too much time overnanalyzing why we saw PK giving Plek the stink eye during the last 5 minutes of practice.

The only thing that really matters is winning. If we brought a young, skilled core to this team, that will draw free agents. Great hockey city, great city to live and amazing tradition. All we need is more top end talent.
Well if you look at history, until Gainey's big splash the Habs weren't able to land any big name UFA's, and now that we stink one would think it won't be easy to attract UFA's until we no longer stink. So not sure why you would be surprised that fans are down as this is likely the worst season I have ever seen the Habs have so when you have a huge, rabid, bi-polar fan base I wouldn't expect anything different.

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02-29-2012, 09:40 AM
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Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
NYR buried Drury and Redden.

have they been able to sign big UFA?
Richards/Gaborik
They weren't dead last, and Drury retired if I recall correctly.

They also have a good coach.

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02-29-2012, 09:43 AM
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le_sean
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I think these UFAs are intelligent enough to understand that guys like Gomez, Kaberle, and even Cammalleri, played themselves off the team.

Heck, if I was a UFA and saw that they simply accepted Gomez's play, I wouldn't sign there.

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02-29-2012, 09:51 AM
  #14
MrExpos
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Players are not stupid. Gomez is producing like a career AHLer with Sidney Crosby-like salary.

If players are scared to be Scott Gomez2.0, they shouldn't play on your team.

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02-29-2012, 12:01 PM
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MasterDecoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
They weren't dead last, and Drury retired if I recall correctly.

They also have a good coach.
and you forgot the most important thing: it's new york

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02-29-2012, 01:13 PM
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Kjell Dahlin
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Gomez? The players are seeing the same thing than us – whether he plays in the AHL or the NHL next season, I don't see it affecting this organisation's capacity to attract UFAs.

-----------------

In reaction to the answers...

1. We were successful at attracting UFAs when Carbonneau was giving breathing room to our offensive players: in 2007-08 the Canadiens were the 2nd best offence in the league and in 2008-09 they ranked 12th.

After suffocating under Martin the players now have to tolerate "goonish", simplistic dump and chase hockey from a coach who seems to have no clue. Kostitsyn was misused, Plekanec is always playing with different wingers (often 3rd, 4th liners or AHLers), Gomez keeps receiving more PP time than Eller and, lately, Plekanec...

2. Taxes are not a problem; what's the difference between Quebec and Ontario or the British-Colombia? 1%? 2%? Factor in the cost of living and the efficiency of today's accountants and I doubt it is a factor.

3. The lack of leadership showed by the top brass is worrisome and, short terms, it will force our Habs to overpay... but luckily for us, we are chatting about one of the wealthiest organization - with room for manoeuvre from a cap perspective - in the NHL. An organisation/city that was recently voted, despite our problems, "favourite rink to play in" and 5th for "team would you most like to play on" by the NHL players. ref.: http://www.playerspoll.ca/

So...
  • New coach in 2012-13 (Roy, Vincent...)
  • New GM in 2012-13 (Timmins, Julien Brisebois, Jim Nill, Roy…)
  • Overpayment during the next 1-2 year(s)
  • Stability

Long story short (!): if a guy like Parise decides to test the market, chances are he would sign with us if we offer him 1-2 M$ more per year than anyone else. It is not ideal and long terms it would not be a viable situation but I think we are over-reacting here: we have a good mix of vets (Gionta, Cole, Gorges...) and young players, the Canadiens are among the leaders in terms of man-games lost due to injury, plenty of room under the cap and Cunneyworth carried the interim tag since day 1.


Last edited by Kjell Dahlin: 02-29-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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Old
02-29-2012, 01:16 PM
  #17
Patty Roy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
Gomez? The players are seeing the same thing than us – whether he plays in the AHL or the NHL next season, I don't see it affecting this organisation's capacity to attract UFAs.
Exactly. Its no secret that the guy just can't compete at the NHL level anymore. If anything i would say that burying him in the minors would INCREASE the Habs odds of attracting a UFA...it shows a commitment to winning and icing the best team possible.

Also given how high the salary cap has risen (and its rumored to go up another $5 mil this summer) i would not hesitate to give a stud like Parise an extra million or two per season to get him in Montreal. I have no problem overspending on a top end talent. Much better to do it there than on a 3rd liner or 3rd pair d-man.

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