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Post-Deadline Poll: How'd Fletch Do?

View Poll Results: What is your outlook on Fletcher's performance
5: Expectations satisfied 31 33.70%
4: Positive, but some reservations 49 53.26%
3: Neutral/undecided 8 8.70%
2: Somewhat negative 3 3.26%
1: Lining up on the firing squad 1 1.09%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-28-2012, 03:44 PM
  #126
thestonedkoala
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Originally Posted by Beegoalie View Post
I think you forgot to add

Pouliot for Latendress(Phenomenal)
Except Lats came into camp out of shape and then injured himself two years in a row. That trade didn't really help either team in the long run as Lats is probably on the way out.

Quote:
Havat for Heatley(STEAL)
Except that this was a hockey trade was we are calling it. Heatley served a purpose for Minnesota. Havlat a purpose for San Jose. He just got injured on a fluke play.

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Burns for Coyle, Phillips, Setoguchi(trade that in 3 years will be looked at as a fleecing)
Except we still haven't replaced Burns and players like Burns don't grow on trees.

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Fletchers track record with trades isn't all that bad IMO..atleast he has the courage to make hockey trades..
It's neither good nor bad. It is what it is and that's average at best.

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02-28-2012, 03:49 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Except Lats came into camp out of shape and then injured himself two years in a row. That trade didn't really help either team in the long run as Lats is probably on the way out.



Except that this was a hockey trade was we are calling it. Heatley served a purpose for Minnesota. Havlat a purpose for San Jose. He just got injured on a fluke play.



Except we still haven't replaced Burns and players like Burns don't grow on trees.



It's neither good nor bad. It is what it is and that's average at best.
So Lats getting hurt is a knock against us, but Havlat getting hurt isn't a knock against them. Interesting.

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02-28-2012, 03:50 PM
  #128
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Lats didn't injure himself two years in a row. His lack of preparation led to missing one year then this year he got unlucky and got a concussion. Not his fault at all.

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02-28-2012, 03:57 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
So Lats getting hurt is a knock against us, but Havlat getting hurt isn't a knock against them. Interesting.
One was a fluke, the other was a hockey play.

I don't really consider the Lats trade a win but I also don't consider it a loss. It was, what it was. The exchange of two young players that were stalled in their career development. Only Pouls moved on before Lats did.

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02-28-2012, 03:57 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
So Lats getting hurt is a knock against us, but Havlat getting hurt isn't a knock against them. Interesting.
Just wait a few days, he'll be saying that Montreal "won" the Lats/Pouliot trade because "look how good Pouliot is doing with Boston."

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02-28-2012, 04:00 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
One was a fluke, the other was a hockey play.

I don't really consider the Lats trade a win but I also don't consider it a loss. It was, what it was. The exchange of two young players that were stalled in their career development. Only Pouls moved on before Lats did.
Jumping over the boards is part of hockey, thus a hockey play.

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02-28-2012, 04:10 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Except Lats came into camp out of shape and then injured himself two years in a row. That trade didn't really help either team in the long run as Lats is probably on the way out.



Except that this was a hockey trade was we are calling it. Heatley served a purpose for Minnesota. Havlat a purpose for San Jose. He just got injured on a fluke play.



Except we still haven't replaced Burns and players like Burns don't grow on trees.



It's neither good nor bad. It is what it is and that's average at best.
Latendresse Wild career: 82 games 33 goals
Pouliot Wild career:62 games 9 goals

Danny Heatley this year:62 games 19 goals 45 points
Martin Havlat this year: 26 games 2 goals 15 points

If your going to sit here and tell me that Havlat "serves a purpose for SJ" and even think that he compares with the value we got for him in Heatley your a moron. Also saying we didn't win the Pouliot Latendresse trade makes you more in the same. If Lats could stay healthy that would be one of the best trades in the NHL in the last 10 years.

Also sure we haven't replaced Burns but something tells me the goal scoring we'll get from Setoguchi, Coyle, Phillips > than Brent Burns in the next 6 years. Every major hockey analyst said all along we got insane value for Burns.

Don't sit here and tell me these 3 weren't great moves by a great gm. I'm not buying it.

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02-28-2012, 04:42 PM
  #133
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Zidlicky Trade
A+. Fletcher pulled a major fast one. Zidlicky was done. Post shoulder injury, he was terrible. No offense from an "offensive" Dman. Fletcher gets a 2nd and a decent young player in Palmeri. Foster and Veilleux were contract dumps, but they might contribute. The conditional 3rd is just icing on the cake. And the best thing??? 4 million/year in cap space!!!!

Schultz Trade
B-. Setting aside my love of Schultz, it was a personnel trade that fit both teams. Gilbert could be a real good Dman for the Wild, and he fits the future (Scandella, Falk, Prosser, and Stoner should be enough defensive Dmen moving forward). But this trade had some risk, as Gilbert might not pan out and the blueline (and team in general) might crumble with their long-time leader gone.

Zanon Trade
B+. Would have liked a 2nd or 3rd in this year's draft, but a young Dman with some upside is a good back-up option. Zanon was not in the long-term plan and he wasn't good this year, so this trade was worth it if Kampfer sees 1 game on the Wild.

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02-28-2012, 04:52 PM
  #134
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I have read a lot of posts going either way on how successful these trades were. One thing that seems to get lost at times was that the status quo was not working. Things needed to change. We traded some pieces that had been here for years and were not helping our organization the way we needed. They were not necessarily bad, but just not right for us. You don't always win, but if you don't try you will always fail.

Honestly, even if these trades do not work out to our expectations I am happy to have a GM with the cahones enough to do something and the wisdom enough to try and do the right thing at that time. All the people that will come on later and say "I told you so" can go to hell: they're worthless and always rely on hindsight.

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02-28-2012, 10:41 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Czech in Hockey View Post
One thing that seems to get lost at times was that the status quo was not working. Things needed to change. We traded some pieces that had been here for years and were not helping our organization the way we needed.
Yes, the status quo isn't working but what? We trade all of our defense and keep our forwards in tact? The forwards aren't working as well. How is sending a message to the defense changing anything with the forwards?

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02-28-2012, 11:43 PM
  #136
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Zidlicky clearly wanted out and was moved. Zanon was going to be gone soon anyway, so they got a meh prospect. Schultz was the only real wakeup trade.

I honestly see both Schultz and Gilbert as 4/5 guys who need to not be facing top players. Schultz because, while he can defend them on the rush, he's not good at getting the puck out so they're stuck in the zone, and Gilbert because apparently he's like Zidlicky with the mistakes.

Tonight I write off because EVERYONE was off. I'd like to see how they close the season. Every single year they just mail it in from about this point onward, so it'd be nice to see some guys who are actually fighting for jobs and roster spots.

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02-28-2012, 11:45 PM
  #137
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Schultz was the only real wakeup trade.
I think that the forwards need a wake up trade. Burns and Schultz for the defense to make sure the defense isn't comfortable but someone from the forwards this season needs to be moved. Brodziak isn't going to be traded now. So who? Heatley is working fine and so is Setoguchi. Cullen? He has a NTC. Bouchard and Lats are injured? Powe just came in.

Clutterbuck is the only guy I can think of.

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02-28-2012, 11:47 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Zidlicky clearly wanted out and was moved. Zanon was going to be gone soon anyway, so they got a meh prospect. Schultz was the only real wakeup trade.

I honestly see both Schultz and Gilbert as 4/5 guys who need to not be facing top players. Schultz because, while he can defend them on the rush, he's not good at getting the puck out so they're stuck in the zone, and Gilbert because apparently he's like Zidlicky with the mistakes.

Tonight I write off because EVERYONE was off. I'd like to see how they close the season. Every single year they just mail it in from about this point onward, so it'd be nice to see some guys who are actually fighting for jobs and roster spots.
Seems about spot on, especially tonight. But Brodz said it wasnt because of the Schultz trade, so I dunno, maybe we should hold tonight against them.

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02-28-2012, 11:50 PM
  #139
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Oh yeah thanks for reminding me of the other thought train.

The forwards...they're missing 3 of the top 6 guys already. Heatley was doing great until recently. I would have MAYBE moved Seto (you know I'm not a fan) but he does provide secondary/depth scoring. Cullen should be gone but has a NTC. Brodziak has been a great soldier this year and got a new contract. Clutter, maybe he should be moved, maybe they tried, maybe there was no interest.

But there's nothing you can really do with guys like Ortmeyer, Disalvatore, Peters, Powe, Johnson, etc. They're fringe NHL'ers who are playing like fringe NHL'ers.

And they did bring in Veilleux and Palmieri to take up a couple roster spots, so they did something at least.

I'm frustrated they didn't do something two months ago when it could have mattered for this year. That's what irks me. Like the Christensen deal, too little too late. And wow is he terrible. At least Wellman is contributing in the AHL.

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02-28-2012, 11:53 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I think that the forwards need a wake up trade. Burns and Schultz for the defense to make sure the defense isn't comfortable but someone from the forwards this season needs to be moved. Brodziak isn't going to be traded now. So who? Heatley is working fine and so is Setoguchi. Cullen? He has a NTC. Bouchard and Lats are injured? Powe just came in.

Clutterbuck is the only guy I can think of.
I dont think a forward shakeup trade would have had the same effect. I think the reason Schultz is such a shakeup is probably because hes been there so long that most of the guys there considered him one of the few untouchables that would not ever be moved. and I think the trade as it was executed works to prove that no one is untouchable.

Trading Clutterbuck away would be much more difficult. For one thing, the guy is just so unique in his approach to the game that it would be hard to argue to a fair price without having days of discussion, and for two, he is one of the few guys who seems like he is capable of going out and being his usual superpest self day in and day out.

Aside from that stretch where he had some personal life changes to deal with, I cant think of a stretch where he was not going out and hitting people. and the fact that he has chipped in with top 6 duty and has handled it more or less competently speaks to his positive value to the team even more.

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02-28-2012, 11:56 PM
  #141
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Oh yeah thanks for reminding me of the other thought train.
No problem, I do that.

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The forwards...they're missing 3 of the top 6 guys already. Heatley was doing great until recently. I would have MAYBE moved Seto (you know I'm not a fan) but he does provide secondary/depth scoring. Cullen should be gone but has a NTC. Brodziak has been a great soldier this year and got a new contract. Clutter, maybe he should be moved, maybe they tried, maybe there was no interest.
Seto is an interesting situation. We don't want to give up on him so early but on the other hand he is the only moveable piece.

I would have pushed hard to move Cullen. Ask him to submit a bunch of places he would like to be traded too because frankly, he's overpaid and we need him gone.

I hate to rehash it but to wake up the forwards; MOVE KOIVU. It would send the same message that Schultz did.

Quote:
I'm frustrated they didn't do something two months ago when it could have mattered for this year. That's what irks me. Like the Christensen deal, too little too late. And wow is he terrible. At least Wellman is contributing in the AHL.
I don't think they could have with all the injuries. I think the only guy they were desperately trying to move is Zidlicky.

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02-28-2012, 11:58 PM
  #142
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I dont think a forward shakeup trade would have had the same effect. I think the reason Schultz is such a shakeup is probably because hes been there so long that most of the guys there considered him one of the few untouchables that would not ever be moved. and I think the trade as it was executed works to prove that no one is untouchable.
Might have if we moved a guy that all he did was pass. We have too many passive forwards that don't shoot.

Schultz was a shakeup because he provided leadership and strength on the defense and was a very well liked player and individual. I don't think anyone thought him untouchable but more unlikely to be traded as there were other candidates.

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Trading Clutterbuck away would be much more difficult. For one thing, the guy is just so unique in his approach to the game that it would be hard to argue to a fair price without having days of discussion, and for two, he is one of the few guys who seems like he is capable of going out and being his usual superpest self day in and day out.
We got Bulmer and Larsson. Clutterbuck is looking for a hefty pay raise after next year as well.

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02-28-2012, 11:58 PM
  #143
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Clutterbuck has more scoring talent than Veilleux, but SV may win fans over quickly with his energy and hits. He tries to hit everything that moves. Clutterbuck use to do that, but has taken a huge step back. And his tantrums that put him in the box may hurt his status further.

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02-28-2012, 11:59 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
I hate to rehash it but to wake up the forwards; MOVE KOIVU. It would send the same message that Schultz did.
I have severe issues about doing anything with Koivu until we have Granlund signed. After Granlund is signed tho, yeah I think it might be worth a look to see what we can get for Koivu. But doesnt he have a NMC?

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02-29-2012, 12:01 AM
  #145
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Clutterbuck has more scoring talent than Veilleux, but SV may win fans over quickly with his energy and hits. He tries to hit everything that moves. Clutterbuck use to do that, but has taken a huge step back. And his tantrums that put him in the box may hurt his status further.
Clutterbuck might be a bit shy after the rule changes. I remember him complaining about hits.

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I have severe issues about doing anything with Koivu until we have Granlund signed. After Granlund is signed tho, yeah I think it might be worth a look to see what we can get for Koivu. But doesnt he have a NMC?
I don't think I have that severe of an issue. I would essentially tell Granlund it's his team. Koivu wasn't working out, so it's his team.

I'm worried that Koivu's value takes a severe nose dive if he can't get himself healthy and productive with the new forwards coming in.

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02-29-2012, 12:02 AM
  #146
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Might have if we moved a guy that all he did was pass. We have too many passive forwards that don't shoot.

...

We got Bulmer and Larsson. Clutterbuck is looking for a hefty pay raise after next year as well.
Which forward would you suggest then, from the all-pass-no-shot category?

And if Clutterbuck is due for a raise after next season then perhaps we look at moving him during next years deadline.

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Originally Posted by NHL1674 View Post
Clutterbuck has more scoring talent than Veilleux, but SV may win fans over quickly with his energy and hits. He tries to hit everything that moves. Clutterbuck use to do that, but has taken a huge step back. And his tantrums that put him in the box may hurt his status further.
I've liked what I've seen of SV so far and I think he could indeed do exactly what you say he could. I want to see more of what he has at this point in his career tho.

And thats another very good point about Clutterbuck...and in fact the whole team. They're just plain undisciplined lately. Have been for weeks.

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02-29-2012, 12:03 AM
  #147
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Clutterbuck might be a bit shy after the rule changes. I remember him complaining about hits.



I don't think I have that severe of an issue. I would essentially tell Granlund it's his team. Koivu wasn't working out, so it's his team.

I'm worried that Koivu's value takes a severe nose dive if he can't get himself healthy and productive with the new forwards coming in.
The worry I have is that Koivu and Granlund are close friends, and all Granlund has to do is hold out a few more months and he goes right back into the draft if he gets mad enough at us that he wants to pull an "Anywhere but Minnesota" sort of move.

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02-29-2012, 12:04 AM
  #148
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Which forward would you suggest then, from the all-pass-no-shot category?

And if Clutterbuck is due for a raise after next season then perhaps we look at moving him during next years deadline.
Koivu and Cullen are the only two really we can move at this point.

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The worry I have is that Koivu and Granlund are close friends, and all Granlund has to do is hold out a few more months and he goes right back into the draft if he gets mad enough at us that he wants to pull an "Anywhere but Minnesota" sort of move.
Columbus or Minnesota? Yeah.

I really don't see Granlund pulling a stunt like that.

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02-29-2012, 12:11 AM
  #149
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Koivu and Cullen are the only two really we can move at this point.



Columbus or Minnesota? Yeah.

I really don't see Granlund pulling a stunt like that.
Cullen has a firm no trade clause and I dont know if anything could be used to get him to waive it. He's here because he wants to be here in Minnesota, with his family and friends.

And I still would like to know if Koivu has a no movement clause of some sort.

And as for my Grandlund stuff, well, I'm really hoping that's just me being paranoid, but that's what my gut tells me is possible as a worst case scenario.

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02-29-2012, 12:11 AM
  #150
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I have severe issues about doing anything with Koivu until we have Granlund signed. After Granlund is signed tho, yeah I think it might be worth a look to see what we can get for Koivu. But doesnt he have a NMC?
I'd like to see what a team with both Granlund and Koivu can do first.

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Cullen has a firm no trade clause and I dont know if anything could be used to get him to waive it. He's here because he wants to be here in Minnesota, with his family and friends.

And I still would like to know if Koivu has a no movement clause of some sort.

And as for my Grandlund stuff, well, I'm really hoping that's just me being paranoid, but that's what my gut tells me is possible as a worst case scenario.
Yes...NTC

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