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[EDM/MIN] Tom Gilbert Traded For Nick Schultz - Part 2

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02-29-2012, 01:52 AM
  #126
lakai17
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Originally Posted by t0psh3lfclu7ch View Post
barker > peckham foster strudwick vandermeer souray grebeshkov johnson chorney petiot plante greene pitkanen tarnstrom bergeron
we need Grebeshkov back.

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02-29-2012, 01:57 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Yes, cloned, there ARE long term implications of having a managerial regime which can't find better investments for 2.25MM of cap cash than Cam Barker.

Its called eternal sucking.
Nice strawman.

I was talking specifically about the contract itself. You can make generalizations about what it says about management, but I never said anything about that.

And ftr, I'm not a huge Tambo fan.

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02-29-2012, 01:58 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I think Vandermeer would have been better and came cheaper.

Is that what youre getting at?
I think that's the jist of it. I would have rather seen us add another 1.25 and go after Hamrlik.

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02-29-2012, 02:02 AM
  #129
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the oilers are only paying half of barkers salary as he was claimed on re-entry waivers I believe, cap cash or not the oilers are still far under the cap and are in a rebuild. if you had your way we would have acquired wade redden, dipietro, daigle, or yashin, be maxed out at the cap and still finished last place. barker has team canada roots and fits well on this team.

Minnesota Wild
Buyouts, 11/12, 12/13
Barker, Cam »,$375,000 ,$541,666

Edmonton Oilers
Defensemen 11/12, 12/13
Barker, Cam »,$2,250,000,RFA

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=18

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02-29-2012, 02:07 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by t0psh3lfclu7ch View Post
the oilers are only paying half of barkers salary as he was claimed on re-entry waivers I believe, cap cash or not the oilers are still far under the cap and are in a rebuild. if you had your way we would have acquired wade redden, dipietro, daigle, or yashin, be maxed out at the cap and still finished last place.

Minnesota Wild
Buyouts, 11/12, 12/13
Barker, Cam »,$375,000 ,$541,666

Edmonton Oilers
Defensemen 11/12, 12/13
Barker, Cam »,$2,250,000,RFA

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=18
Definitely not getting Barker at half price. He was signed as a free agent because a defense core that currently rivals ours for worst in the league thought it'd be better to pay him to leave then keep him.

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02-29-2012, 02:08 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by t0psh3lfclu7ch View Post
the oilers are only paying half of barkers salary as he was claimed on re-entry waivers I believe, cap cash or not the oilers are still far under the cap and are in a rebuild. if you had your way we would have acquired wade redden, dipietro, daigle, or yashin, be maxed out at the cap and still finished last place. barker has team canada roots and fits well on this team.

Minnesota Wild
Buyouts, 11/12, 12/13
Barker, Cam »,$375,000 ,$541,666

Edmonton Oilers
Defensemen 11/12, 12/13
Barker, Cam »,$2,250,000,RFA

http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=18
WE signed him as a UFA, we're paying his whole salary.

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:13 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
C'mon Bryan. Gilbert and Gagner are two of my favorite players that were on the team. Heres a thread from the offseason if you don't believe me.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...456&highlight=

Is it not clear where I stand?

If thats your take on me so be it. Because it sure seems like you're trying to say something there about me.

Anyway I'm done here.
Maybe it's because I'm used to you defending Gagner tooth and nail that I didn't realize your strong like for Gilbert, either way it sucks when one of your favorite players move on, so here's to hoping that Schultz becomes a guy that you can enjoy watching on the club, like you did Gilbert.

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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
It was 1 year. There are literally no long-term implications from that contract or signing in any way or form.
Pretty much, it was a warm body for one last year of sucking, if he turned it around e look like geniuses, if he doesn't you say adios.

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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I think Vandermeer would have been better and came cheaper.

Is that what youre getting at?
Sutton > Vandermeer and he took Vandy's spot. If anything Peckham blocked having both on the club.

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I think that's the jist of it. I would have rather seen us add another 1.25 and go after Hamrlik.
Meh, we needed 1 more year of drafting really high so no sense in adding a guy like Hamrlik (besides if he was an UFA, why would he have signed here at this point in his career?) we helped address some needs up front this past offseason, this will be the year that we upgrade on D and hopefully in net.

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:27 AM
  #133
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we need Grebeshkov back.
I'd love to have Grebs back, as long as he was Dr Jeckyl, not Mr Hyde.

Dude was good with the puck, but sometimes would crap the bed pretty hard.

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02-29-2012, 05:00 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Definitely not getting Barker at half price. He was signed as a free agent because a defense core that currently rivals ours for worst in the league thought it'd be better to pay him to leave then keep him.
It may be the Oilers and Wild strategy to just keep swapping dmen with each other until the league finally steps in and takes pity on the sorry sack situation both are in and requires 12 other random teams to chip in one dman each for a "You both suck so bad we can't stand it any more" supplemental draft.

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Old
02-29-2012, 05:05 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
And ftr, I'm not a huge Tambo fan.
Does anyone actually have to state that on these boards? Is there anyone that actually IS a huge Tambo fan?

Other than me of course... but that's mainly because I'm sporting this sexy as **** new avatar.

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Old
02-29-2012, 07:08 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The team just traded the player that logged the most minutes on the team over the last 5 yrs every year. Not some insignificant player.

Its not just the trade. But the further thought that Tamblowe are still running this ship. This being jsut a further sign of that.
Yeah I laughed a bitter laugh when posters here and (I believe) Tambo himself reference the Gilbert trade as part of an organizational culture shift when the same mopes who have dragged those team through the gutter these last few years (and beyond) are still pulling the strings. What's the expression: "A fish rots from the head."

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02-29-2012, 08:52 AM
  #137
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Yeah I laughed a bitter laugh when posters here and (I believe) Tambo himself reference the Gilbert trade as part of an organizational culture shift when the same mopes who have dragged those team through the gutter these last few years (and beyond) are still pulling the strings. What's the expression: "A fish rots from the head."
You just proved my point about posters/fanboys/bloggers who have a vendetta against Oiler management and will go out of there way to piss all over any move. It isn't about if the actual hockey trade it is about people's personal motives about the Oiler management.

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02-29-2012, 09:05 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Yes, cloned, there ARE long term implications of having a managerial regime which can't find better investments for 2.25MM of cap cash than Cam Barker.

Its called eternal sucking.
The problem as I see isn't the contract...its an expectation that the player will anchor the defence. That for me was the issue. If Tambo wants to take a flyer on a former 1st round pick who is 25 years old and struggled for 2 straight seasons thats fine. Play him in the bottom pairing and let him earn his ice time. Don't try to fit him into the top 4 (or top 2 in this case) and attempt to convince everyone he is a top 2 dman.
There is taking a flyer and then there is flat out stupidity.


Last edited by guymez: 02-29-2012 at 09:12 AM.
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02-29-2012, 09:11 AM
  #139
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You just proved my point about posters/fanboys/bloggers who have a vendetta against Oiler management and will go out of there way to piss all over any move. It isn't about if the actual hockey trade it is about people's personal motives about the Oiler management.
Yep, that's it. A totally unreasonable and personal agenda against the Oilers management. Can't possibly imagine why people would question their managerial abilities, no sir.

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02-29-2012, 09:15 AM
  #140
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Yep, that's it. A totally unreasonable and personal agenda against the Oilers management. Can't possibly imagine why people would question their managerial abilities, no sir.
In this whole rebuild that Tambs has started has he ever did anything that wouldn't be consistent with a ground up rebuild?

Because I know he hasn't. I also think that this rebuild decision was firmly his and he finally got it through Katz and Lowe's heads that this was the right decision to do.

Everything that happened before that you are probably right. The Oilers made bad decisions. Since that day they announced a rebuild I don't think they have made any real horrendous decisions.

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02-29-2012, 09:17 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by t0psh3lfclu7ch View Post
barker > peckham foster strudwick vandermeer souray grebeshkov johnson chorney petiot plante greene pitkanen tarnstrom bergeron
but... Arsene>Barker

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02-29-2012, 09:19 AM
  #142
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You guys are being a little ridiculous getting on Gilbert so much after 1 game in a new system, i know that it's fun to prove Replacement, Raab etc. wrong but it's just 1 game. I hope that Gilbert does well there.

Are we going to nitpick every mistake that Schultz makes tonight? That wouldn't be fair to Schultz either because he's bound to make a few mistakes especially considering Edmonton's system.

Lets give it the rest of the season then analyze the trade and even then, it will probably too early to declare a winner/loser.

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02-29-2012, 09:20 AM
  #143
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The problem as I see isn't the contract...its an expectation that the player will anchor the defence. That for me was the issue. If Tambo wants to take a flyer on a former 1st round pick who is 25 years old and struggled for 2 straight seasons thats fine. Play him in the bottom pairing and let him earn his ice time. Don't try to fit him into the top 4 (or top 2 in this case) and attempt to convince everyone he is a top 2 dman.
There is taking a flyer and then there is flat out stupidity.
Yeah and to add, it's fine to 'take a flyer' but there isn't a person out there that doesn't go into a wager convinced it isn't going to pay off for them.

It is still a clear indication on how he assesses talent for this team and that, more than Barker specifically, is where the long term implications may come in.

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02-29-2012, 09:22 AM
  #144
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You guys are being a little ridiculous getting on Gilbert so much after 1 game in a new system, i know that it's fun to prove Replacement, Raab etc. wrong but it's just 1 game. I hope that Gilbert does well there.

Are we going to nitpick every mistake that Schultz makes tonight? That wouldn't be fair to Schultz either because he's bound to make a few mistakes especially considering Edmonton's system.

Lets give it the rest of the season then analyze the trade and even then, it will probably too early to declare a winner/loser.
I think Tambo is about as daft as a GM gets but this is a good hockey deal for both teams if the Gilbert of this season shows up in Minnesota.

Time will tell and I have no problem waiting and watching.

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02-29-2012, 09:25 AM
  #145
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I think Tambo is about as daft as a GM gets but this is a good hockey deal for both teams if the Gilbert of this season shows up in Minnesota.

Time will tell and I have no problem waiting and watching.
yet Tambo has an NHL job and you don't. hmmmm wonder who is the daft one?

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02-29-2012, 09:27 AM
  #146
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In this whole rebuild that Tambs has started has he ever did anything that wouldn't be consistent with a ground up rebuild?

Because I know he hasn't. I also think that this rebuild decision was firmly his and he finally got it through Katz and Lowe's heads that this was the right decision to do.

Everything that happened before that you are probably right. The Oilers made bad decisions. Since that day they announced a rebuild I don't think they have made any real horrendous decisions.
What day did they announce the rebuild? Was there a proclamation at city hall?

Furthermore: what evidence is there this rebuild was Tambo's baby and not the child of circumstances created by their own bumbling?

Finally, for the sake of argument, let's say they haven't made any "horrendous" decisions. They have made a host of bone-headed, small time ****-ups that may not sink the ship but nonetheless give us some insight into how they do business. The picture that emerges ain't pretty.

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02-29-2012, 09:29 AM
  #147
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What day did they announce the rebuild? Was there a proclamation at city hall?

Furthermore: what evidence is there this rebuild was Tambo's baby and not the child of circumstances created by their own bumbling?

Finally, for the sake of argument, let's say they haven't made any "horrendous" decisions. They have made a host of bone-headed, small time ****-ups that may not sink the ship but nonetheless give us some insight into how they do business. The picture that emerges ain't pretty.
The only picture that will emerge is whether this exercise is successful or not. If it fails then you are absolutely correct but do you really want it to fail? I can't think that you hate these guys so much that you want it to fail so utterly in the hopes that they may get fired?

I don't think I can be that narcissistic

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02-29-2012, 09:30 AM
  #148
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Yeah and to add, it's fine to 'take a flyer' but there isn't a person out there that doesn't go into a wager convinced it isn't going to pay off for them.

It is still a clear indication on how he assesses talent for this team and that, more than Barker specifically, is where the long term implications may come in.
I agree...the decision to sign Barker and the decisions that followed were quite telling. I have to take a step back after each Tambo decision (and proclamation) because he has made so many questionable ones that it has lowered my expectations.

That said I am open to the possibility that he is/has learned on the job. I don't want to paint myself into a position where I am simply defending my position for the sake of validation.

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02-29-2012, 09:31 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
What day did they announce the rebuild? Was there a proclamation at city hall?

Furthermore: what evidence is there this rebuild was Tambo's baby and not the child of circumstances created by their own bumbling?

Finally, for the sake of argument, let's say they haven't made any "horrendous" decisions. They have made a host of bone-headed, small time ****-ups that may not sink the ship but nonetheless give us some insight into how they do business. The picture that emerges ain't pretty.
Katz and Lowe clearly, the Owner and VP or whatever promoted title Lowe has, indicated that they are blowing this thing up and are rebuilding from scratch, they did this in the '09-'10 offseason directly before the Hall draft so yes, it was announced publicly.

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02-29-2012, 09:35 AM
  #150
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we need Grebeshkov back.
I'm amazed that I keep seeing this name. Short memories, I guess. Imagine the carve job on management if they aquired Grebs and he played exactly as expected.

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