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Old
02-29-2012, 09:29 AM
  #26
HSF
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Murray said Bishop will get some games in this stretch without Andy.

Also Bishop has a 1 way deal next season so he will be the backup


BUT if Lehner proves ready and so does Bishop i got to think they will look to move Andy


right now though Andy is the starter and we swim or sink by him when he returns. He got us this far we owe him that much. add to that Lehner has only played 3 games this year still lots of time ofr other teams ot find some weaknesses...then we see what he is really made of

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02-29-2012, 09:33 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Stick Bishop in the minors and let Lehner be the back up be the backup for the rest of the year. He seems to hate it in Bingo and he's clearly NHL ready.

At training camp, let the three headed monster battle it out. Dare I say... trade Anderson? Lehner-Bishop could be a solid duo as soon as next year.
What is the status of Bishop's waiver exemption next year. I've heard he is exempt and not exempt. Some have indicated Murray said not next year, but TSN said he was.

It makes a huge difference to Lehner I would imagine, who so far is looking like he belongs up with the club. And from what I've read, so does Bishop.

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02-29-2012, 09:36 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Thing is, I don't think it's best for his development to go back to the AHL (Lehner the same most likely). Especially playing for a bad team. He's ready. There are/have been 21 yo goalies before.

Not a vote of confidence trading for Bishop. Basically an eff u Lehner, and I understand why he would be pissed.
Well, it's clear that we have almost completely opposite views on this, then. Like, night-and-day.

I don't think Bishop's arrival is a big "eff u" to Lehner whatsoever. How big do you think the chip on Lehner's shoulder is? Why does acquiring goaltending depth immediately mean that Lehner is redundant? I mean, we acquired Bishop, and immediately sent him to play in Bingo, while keeping Lehner up here. How is that insulting in any way whatsoever?

Is trading for Kyle Turris a big "eff u" to Zibanejad? Is trading for Gilroy a big "eff u" to Wiercioch? Sometimes hockey moves are hockey moves, not the embodiments of vendettas against certain players.

Also, Lehner is ready to be an average NHL goalie right now... but he's not going to get any better by being a backup and seeing 15 starts a year over the next 3 years. Goalies develop by seeing LOTS of shots, not by being the other goalie in practice and playing "shooter tutor" to the rest of the team during drills, while only getting spot starts against the league's weaker teams.

And yes, there have absolutely been 21 year old goalies before... but almost ALL of the successful ones were thrown either the starter's gig almost immediately, and/or an even 50/50 split of the starts. Again, this reflects the idea that goalies need to see real, in-game shots to develop. Neither of which I would imagine we would do with Lehner if he were in the NHL next year.

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02-29-2012, 09:37 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
Thing is, I don't think it's best for his development to go back to the AHL (Lehner the same most likely). Especially playing for a bad team. He's ready. There are/have been 21 yo goalies before.

Not a vote of confidence trading for Bishop. Basically an eff u Lehner, and I understand why he would be pissed.
Lol I'm glad it's not you making the decisions.

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02-29-2012, 09:39 AM
  #30
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BUT if Lehner proves ready and so does Bishop i got to think they will look to move Andy

I could see this happening if both Lehner AND Bishop show in camp next fall that they are legit and ready to go. I'd want to be sure Lehner gets starts though... he won't be doing himself any good just riding the pine in the big show.

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02-29-2012, 09:40 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
Murray said Bishop will get some games in this stretch without Andy.

Also Bishop has a 1 way deal next season so he will be the backup

BUT if Lehner proves ready and so does Bishop i got to think they will look to move Andy

right now though Andy is the starter and we swim or sink by him when he returns. He got us this far we owe him that much. add to that Lehner has only played 3 games this year still lots of time ofr other teams ot find some weaknesses...then we see what he is really made of
I agree Anderson will get the job back. But if Lehner does continue to shine, I also think he could get a look in a big game down the road. Look at Schneider starting over Luongo. No one knows what MacLean will do come playoffs, because he's never been a head coach in a situation like this before.

And the problem with naming the back-up a year in advance is, what if Lehner severly outplays Bishop and seemingly deserves the back-up spot? it means the back-up role isn't earned, but rather granted. Not good when dealing with an unproven NHL goalie.

Even if Bishop has a one-way deal, that doesn't mean he can't be sent to the minors if he is waiver exempt. it just means he'll be making $650k in Bingo, which is what his one-way deal guarantees him - no 2nd tier of smaller money if in the minors. Ideally, the Sens don't want guys on one-way deals playing in Bingo, but that doesn't mean if Lehner outplays him that they might not have the option. The question is really just about being waiver exempt.

While the plan does seem like Bishop will be the back-up, it's amazing how the best of plans unravel when players don't play the way they are supposed to. As such, I think the question of Bishop's waiver status next year is an important one. I'd much rather Bishop earn the back-up role by at least matching Lehner's play than anoint him the back-up regardless of his play because of his contract. Same goes for Lehner.

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02-29-2012, 09:49 AM
  #32
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So first everyone wanted to draft another goalie because we didn't want all our eggs in one basket, but now that we have Bishop, it's somehow a bad thing for Lehner?

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02-29-2012, 10:03 AM
  #33
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Anyone who thinks it would be a good idea to get rid of Anderson and run with two young goalies need to look no further than down the 401 to see what happens when there isn't a steadying veteran to help young goalies through a rough patch.

Both Gustavsson and Reimer were promising young goaltenders who looked to be ruined by a team that gives up juicy goal-scoring opportunities (sound familiar?) and a suspect team defense (sound familiar?).

Anderson is a good guy to keep around while Bishop and Lehner try to become elite goalies. His experience is important.

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02-29-2012, 10:06 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
Well, it's clear that we have almost completely opposite views on this, then. Like, night-and-day.

I don't think Bishop's arrival is a big "eff u" to Lehner whatsoever. How big do you think the chip on Lehner's shoulder is? Why does acquiring goaltending depth immediately mean that Lehner is redundant? I mean, we acquired Bishop, and immediately sent him to play in Bingo, while keeping Lehner up here. How is that insulting in any way whatsoever?

Is trading for Kyle Turris a big "eff u" to Zibanejad? Is trading for Gilroy a big "eff u" to Wiercioch? Sometimes hockey moves are hockey moves, not the embodiments of vendettas against certain players.
It's insulting to Lehner because they think he can't play in the NHL right now or next year. Or possibly even long term otherwise they would have gotten a regular backup, not paid a high enough price for a potential starter.

The others not really insults because they're not NHL ready.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
Also, Lehner is ready to be an average NHL goalie right now... but he's not going to get any better by being a backup and seeing 15 starts a year over the next 3 years. Goalies develop by seeing LOTS of shots, not by being the other goalie in practice and playing "shooter tutor" to the rest of the team during drills, while only getting spot starts against the league's weaker teams.

And yes, there have absolutely been 21 year old goalies before... but almost ALL of the successful ones were thrown either the starter's gig almost immediately, and/or an even 50/50 split of the starts. Again, this reflects the idea that goalies need to see real, in-game shots to develop. Neither of which I would imagine we would do with Lehner if he were in the NHL next year.
This is a concern and I would not want Lehner playing 15 games obviously. A 50-50 split would be best and he is ready for that imo.

Like I said in another post, go with Lehner-Bishop. Throw Lehner to the wolves as you suggest. Bishop is cheaper and not as established as Anderson so would be a fine backup, but also be insurance in case Lehner flops.

Either way, Lehner has to come in sometime. Be it immediately a starter or playing 30-40 games. He proven himself in the AHL, and looks good in the NHL. Stop wasting everybody's time in playing in AHL, and stop wasting draft picks on redundant goalies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamok View Post
So first everyone wanted to draft another goalie because we didn't want all our eggs in one basket, but now that we have Bishop, it's somehow a bad thing for Lehner?
Bishop is 26 and NHL ready like Lehner, completely different than drafting an 18 year old

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02-29-2012, 10:06 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by sensjersey11 View Post
Well, it's clear that we have almost completely opposite views on this, then. Like, night-and-day.

I don't think Bishop's arrival is a big "eff u" to Lehner whatsoever. How big do you think the chip on Lehner's shoulder is? Why does acquiring goaltending depth immediately mean that Lehner is redundant? I mean, we acquired Bishop, and immediately sent him to play in Bingo, while keeping Lehner up here. How is that insulting in any way whatsoever?

Is trading for Kyle Turris a big "eff u" to Zibanejad? Is trading for Gilroy a big "eff u" to Wiercioch? Sometimes hockey moves are hockey moves, not the embodiments of vendettas against certain players.

Also, Lehner is ready to be an average NHL goalie right now... but he's not going to get any better by being a backup and seeing 15 starts a year over the next 3 years. Goalies develop by seeing LOTS of shots, not by being the other goalie in practice and playing "shooter tutor" to the rest of the team during drills, while only getting spot starts against the league's weaker teams.

And yes, there have absolutely been 21 year old goalies before... but almost ALL of the successful ones were thrown either the starter's gig almost immediately, and/or an even 50/50 split of the starts. Again, this reflects the idea that goalies need to see real, in-game shots to develop. Neither of which I would imagine we would do with Lehner if he were in the NHL next year.
What you say has lots of merit and based on anything I have heard Lehner isn't upset in the least with the acquisition of Bishop.

Too many people are forgetting Lehner was the best goaltender at the Ottawa Sens training camp last fall. Murray said as much, but felt a 20 year old kid wouldn't/couldn't sustain that level of performance through an NHL season. He also said he didn't want Lehner in the backup role and felt playing everyday in the AHL would be the best thing for him. He also said quite clearly, Lehner was his #1A and if Anderson went down Lehner was the guy.

Lehner accepted the organization's plan for him and went without any issues whatsoever. So this painting of Lehner as a hothead or having a chip on his shoulder is just wrong. The kid is intense, driven to succeed and supremely confident in his abilitities, absolutely nothing wrong with those qualities IMO.

Two games in the NHL does not make a career, no question. However if the kid keeps playing like he has, MacLean/Murray will keep him with the Sens.

NHL goaltending history is written by young goaltenders getting their chance due to injury, then becoming excellent NHLers. Why can't Lehner be the next one to add a chapter??

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02-29-2012, 10:15 AM
  #36
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This is the best goaltending situation that Ottawa has ever had IMO. Our three goalies are 5 yrs apart & all three are playing like they could be & should be the #1 goalie. Anderson won the #1 job based on how well he played down the stretch last yr almost to a playoff spot. Lehner was the MVP in the Bingo Sens Calder Cup Championship run. And Bishop is considered to be the best young goalie not in the NHL, how could it be better than this & at $650K is a great cap hit.

Murray has given Bishop a one way contract for next season so it's likely he will be the backup & fight Anderson for the #1 job. Lehner may be back in Bingo next season, I hope so, he is only one injury or trade away from playing in the NHL very, very soon. He has played three great games this yr in the NHL & three victories & IMO seems very close to being NHL ready. Lehner just oozes confidence & IMO seems to give his team confidence, they play so much better with him in nets. Next yr will be a very interesting for this franchise & for the golatending. Auld is definately gone at yr's end.

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02-29-2012, 10:23 AM
  #37
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Is Bishop waiver exempt next season? So far I've heard 1 yes and 1 no from our team.

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02-29-2012, 10:37 AM
  #38
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Bishop hasn't proven to be the real deal yet. Neither has Lehner. As much as I'd like to jump the gun, common sense needs to prevail. Right now our only proven NHL goalie is Craig Anderson, but it is nice to have the prospect depth finally.

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02-29-2012, 10:40 AM
  #39
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Is Bishop waiver exempt next season? So far I've heard 1 yes and 1 no from our team.
I'm fairly certain he is not. Could be wrong though.

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02-29-2012, 11:03 AM
  #40
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WTF is up with you guys? You seriously want to run with Bishop-Lehner next year? You don't have to look very far down the 401 to see what can happen when you run with two unproven goalies. Heck, Reimer alone almost had more NHL games played going into this season than Bishop and Lehner COMBINED, yet Lehner plays 2 (TWO!) solid games and we're discussing dumping Anderson? Give your heads a shake.

Jimmy Howard spent 4 years honing his craft in the AHL. Crawford spent the better part of 5 seasons. Goalies take time. It is best to give them that time.

The last thing I want is for thsi team to pull the same idiotic move Burke did this season and have zero NHL experience in the net. Sure, things might be different, but if you have a very good NHL veteran goalie (Anderson) and two solid, yet unproven rookies, YOU KEEP THE VETERAN.

Also, keep in mind folks that Bishop is 25 years old. Lehner is 20. Lehner can play next season in Bingo, get the majority of starts, and Bishop can back-up Anderson next season and hopefully not be a dud like Auld and get 15-20 starts.

It will be the season after where I think it will get interesting, but, Bishop might suck donkey balls and be let go and Lehner will just move into the back-up role.

Having a couple of options is much better than having no options at all. Leafs have no other options, and their blowhard GM didn't fix that. We were very limited in our options and our GM did something about it. Not sure why this is a problem. Oh no!! We have too many good goalies now! It's a good problem to have, in my opinion.

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02-29-2012, 11:25 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19sens11 View Post
It's insulting to Lehner because they think he can't play in the NHL right now or next year. Or possibly even long term otherwise they would have gotten a regular backup, not paid a high enough price for a potential starter.

The others not really insults because they're not NHL ready.



This is a concern and I would not want Lehner playing 15 games obviously. A 50-50 split would be best and he is ready for that imo.

Like I said in another post, go with Lehner-Bishop. Throw Lehner to the wolves as you suggest. Bishop is cheaper and not as established as Anderson so would be a fine backup, but also be insurance in case Lehner flops.

Either way, Lehner has to come in sometime. Be it immediately a starter or playing 30-40 games. He proven himself in the AHL, and looks good in the NHL. Stop wasting everybody's time in playing in AHL, and stop wasting draft picks on redundant goalies.


Bishop is 26 and NHL ready like Lehner, completely different than drafting an 18 year old
Murray got bishop in case of injury to Lehner; they didn't want to see Auld in net for the next month.

How do you think Bishop felt when Elliot took his spot early in the year. Bishop is older paid his time in the minor, he will be first in line next year to be Andy's backup

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02-29-2012, 11:26 AM
  #42
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This is the best goaltending situation that Ottawa has ever had IMO. Our three goalies are 5 yrs apart & all three are playing like they could be & should be the #1 goalie. Anderson won the #1 job based on how well he played down the stretch last yr almost to a playoff spot. Lehner was the MVP in the Bingo Sens Calder Cup Championship run. And Bishop is considered to be the best young goalie not in the NHL, how could it be better than this & at $650K is a great cap hit.

Murray has given Bishop a one way contract for next season so it's likely he will be the backup & fight Anderson for the #1 job. Lehner may be back in Bingo next season, I hope so, he is only one injury or trade away from playing in the NHL very, very soon. He has played three great games this yr in the NHL & three victories & IMO seems very close to being NHL ready. Lehner just oozes confidence & IMO seems to give his team confidence, they play so much better with him in nets. Next yr will be a very interesting for this franchise & for the golatending. Auld is definately gone at yr's end.

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02-29-2012, 11:37 AM
  #43
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I'm creaming my pants right now at the core and potential in all 3 positions on our team.

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02-29-2012, 11:40 AM
  #44
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So many fortune tellers around here!

It's fun to speculate but we already know Andy's our guy next season whatever happens and the backup role will most likely be won during training camp.

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02-29-2012, 12:06 PM
  #45
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No sense in waiving Auld right now. The team has to pay him anyway, so you might as well keep him around as an insurance policy.

My sense is that Anderson's injury is more serious than the team is letting on. If they had to repair the tendon, which I gather they did, that's at least a one month injury. There is nothing you can do to make that tendon heal any faster. I can't see Anderson starting a game for another three weeks, perhaps a month.

Right now, it is "ride the hot hand" time. Lehner just shut out the defending Stanley Cup Champs in their crib - he gets the next start. If he loses, you bring up Bishop and play him.

Auld plays only if both of the young guys get "triple Asian flu", as a New York Jets coach once put it. Auld's agent is no doubt checking on Europe and Russia right now, as that is where Auld will likely get his pay cheque next season. It sucks, as he seems like a quality guy who is well liked in the room, but pro sports is a cruel business...

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02-29-2012, 12:13 PM
  #46
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Even if its your pinky finger? Hell you could cut your entire pinky off and not miss a beat. I think Anderson will be back in the time they told us, and if you are to believe what Murray tells us, he was looking at Bishop well before the Anderson injury.

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02-29-2012, 12:14 PM
  #47
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With all things being equal, Bishop fills a gap in our goalie development chain. He has paid his dues in the AHL, is highly touted, and after a great season is ready to be given a shot.

Andy, how quickly some forget, is our best goaltender by a long shot. Auld is a placeholder and will not be brought back.

Bishop will be the guy backing up Andy next year most likely because he is ready, and now is a good time in his development to have a solid chance at backing up in the NHL. If/when he proves capable Andy can play less games and Bishop can start to make a case for being a legit starter down the road.

In terms of asset management this is awesome for us; if we don't want to keep them both we can trade one of our 'starting goal tenders'. If Bishop isn't good enough to start but good enough back up, then we still win since you need two NHL capable goalies on your roster.

For Lehner's development he is best served playing as a starting goaltender in the AHL. From what I have gathered he is quite inconsistent, even in the year he won the playoff MVP, he was not the consensus starter for the team at several points in the season and going into the playoffs (IIRC). He needs to be better in the AHL, he needs to be more consistent, he needs to solidify himself as the starter in Bingo before he has earned the right to move up.

Any sense of entitlement, or a sense of having nothing to prove in the AHL has to be driven out of him. The truth is, he has everything to prove in the AHL, he can start by proving to Bingo fans that he can be a legitimate and consistent starting goaltender.

Like our forward and defence prospects, we are now in a position to not have to rush our goalie prospect. This is great news for the organization.

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02-29-2012, 12:17 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I'm creaming my pants right now at the core and potential in all 3 positions on our team.
I still think we need one more top line forward. I would have thought we'd have drafted him this year but boy was I wrong.

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02-29-2012, 12:30 PM
  #49
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If Edmonton ended with the second overall and offered it to us for Bishop and our first would you take it?

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02-29-2012, 12:30 PM
  #50
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Interesting how all year long (until about a week ago) THE PLAN was for Lehner to play in the AHL this year, and then back up Andy next year. Now all of a sudden THE PLAN is for Bishop to back up Andy next year while Lehner rides the buses in Bingo again next year "to gain experience".

This may be the way it turns out, but it was never the plan, and I would certainly not be happy with this new plan if I was Lehner. Why should he be OK with this change in the organizational plan? If he outplays Bishop, he should back up Andy next year. Plain and simple!

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