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Too many centers next year?

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:05 PM
  #76
Failing Hands
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Originally Posted by Turtleneck Plek View Post
Center depth is a good thing.

You cannot trade Plekanec. The only bright spot this year is our PK. Plekanec, along with Gorges and Gill, was the main reason behind that PK percentage. He's having a down year offensively, he'll get around 50-55 points, but we're 15th in the league, we're not a good team right now and it reflects on our best players. Cole, Pacioretty and Desharnais are having good seasons, but yet Plekanec is only a few points back of them.

He's -18 this year, but he plays all the tough matchups and usually big minutes. His wingers have been shuffled all year and he played with bottom liners for at least half of the games.

I think Desharnais has moved in front of Eller for now for the second top 6 centre spot, but I believe Eller will be the better player in the long term. Desharnais is three years older and more mature. His line has proven they can be consistent together and they should stay together next year barring trades/injuries. Eller should remain the third line centre next year and keep getting defensive assignments. Yet, the third line could perhaps be a more offensive line if somebody like Gallagher makes the team next year. Leblanc will also most probably make the team out of camp and I doubt they'll give him fourth line minutes.

If we do get Galchenyuk or Grigorenko, they'll have to impress at camp. If they can start outplaying Eller for the third line spot, they'll get a 9-game look before the team makes a decision. Perhaps then they might make a trade involving Desharnais, Eller or Plekanec but even then, I don't see it happening. They'll convert Desharnais or Eller to wing before it happens. Personally, I'd rather they convert Desharnais. Eller has undeniable centre qualities that must be fully exploited. Desharnais' skillset wouldn't be lost if he converted to winger, imo.
19 different line combos to be exact. It's ridiculous to expect a guy to constantly adapt to new linemates. No chemistry in that at all.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:06 PM
  #77
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...and what's the deal with Brendan Gallagher? I'm thinking he makes the team next year.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:08 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
What people who want to keep Plekanec aren't understanding is to upgrade your lineup you have to trade people of value. Plekanec brings far more value in the market than the others. We're not underestimating him. We understand how the market works.

see, this makes no sense to me. Right we have an elite #2 (Plekanec) and some guys who would be #3 on a good team (Eller, Desharnais). This thread is assuming we draft Grigorenko, who projects to be that #1C us fans have been demanding all these years. So we finally have the star forward #1C, the elite 2-way #2C, and a guy who should become a very solid #3C (Eller). Move Desharnais to the wing and problem solved. Would give an excellent lineup down the middle, why would you want to trade Plekanec when the team is so close to realising this great center lineup? Getting rid of him would create a huge hole on the 2nd line and PK..


edit: one argument could be that Plek is getting old so he should be dealt for someone who could better compliment our young core. personally, i'd like to see Plek stick around for the rest of his career. I could see him mentoring and eventually switching roles with Eller a few years down the line

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02-29-2012, 12:18 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BJG View Post
My comment has nothing to with this thread and everything to do with your avatar. It just made me think that during that particular brawl, when Cary had TT dead-to-rights he chose to not bash his face in. It's pretty clear that he respects Thomas (if anyone saw them chatting at the ASG), and it was certainly the gentlemanly and sportsman thing to do. But just think...if it were Patrick and Osgood? Price could have seriously and - in the context of the moment - fairly injured TT. No cup in Boston, and our run last year? who knows?

I'm not advocating injuring players just to gain an advantage (though after Chara on Max, I think I would have run Chara over in my car if I saw him on the street...), but it is one of those 'what if?' scenarios.
I think Carey shouldn't have let up. Do Bruin players let up? No, I think he should have Ko'd him.

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02-29-2012, 12:24 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jake5 View Post
see, this makes no sense to me. Right we have an elite #2 (Plekanec) and some guys who would be #3 on a good team (Eller, Desharnais). This thread is assuming we draft Grigorenko, who projects to be that #1C us fans have been demanding all these years. So we finally have the star forward #1C, the elite 2-way #2C, and a guy who should become a very solid #3C (Eller). Move Desharnais to the wing and problem solved. Would give an excellent lineup down the middle, why would you want to trade Plekanec when the team is so close to realising this great center lineup? Getting rid of him would create a huge hole on the 2nd line and PK..


edit: one argument could be that Plek is getting old so he should be dealt for someone who could better compliment our young core. personally, i'd like to see Plek stick around for the rest of his career. I could see him mentoring and eventually switching roles with Eller a few years down the line
That's actually what I see too. Once Plekanec is out of his prime he slides down in the lineup and Eller slides up. Wich is why it's very important to devellop Eller as a center. And let's not forget the guy we draft won't be a star C right away (probably not even in the lineup too and possibly not even a C) so we shouldn't be talking about trading anyone right now.

Also about Plekanec's +/-, 0.890 on ice SV%. That's the SV% Price has while he is on the ice at ES. It doesn't say a thing about his defence since Blunden has a 0.926, bad luck but not much he can do about that.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:26 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
If we had to trade Plekanec, what would he fetch in draft day? A top-10 pick+?
I'm fairly sure Columbus would trade us L.A.'s first round pick (Carter trade) + a decent roster player like Umberger. That's a pretty fair deal, if say that pick is anywhere from 15-22 overall. Umberger is 3.75 a year, and was averaging 20+ goals and 50+ points a year before this year. It's a move we would probably never make because we would risk missing the playoffs next year, but I would do it because it would help us win in subsequent years.

n.b. I would also only do this deal if we definitely had the first or second pick overall. No assurance of getting Grigorenko would mean no movment for Plekanec.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:28 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Desharnais is one of my favourite players but theres a reason he's still hungry for points and Plekanec isn't. Plekanec knows this team is going nowere, he has nobody to play with and he's signed for half a decade. Desharnais on the other hand is still paid pocket change and still needs to prove he belongs in the league. If he slacks DD could be out of the league within two or three years. Plekanec would be given chances by a lot of teams.

Obviously Desharnais is a very determined player and a tireless worker. SO IS PLEKANEC under normal circumstances. Do people remember how Plekanec also used to be like our 8th best prospect projected to be a borderline 3rd liner? He's gone a long way and actually replaced Ribeiro and Koivu (who would have thought then?). I'm sure he'll bounce back next year.
Plekanec is the hardest (along with DD and others) working player on the team. He was the only guy with Price (even more so than Price) that attended EVERY single optional skate last year (he has a baby now) and leads only by example. DD is a very hard worker as well, but absolutely not more so than Plekanec.

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02-29-2012, 12:28 PM
  #83
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I would only look to trade him next year if we have another horrible season and if we're drafting top 3 again. By the looks of it, we might have another terrible season.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:32 PM
  #84
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People keep saying how the habs don't have the propensity to play newly drafted players on the big team...let me ask you, how successful has that tactic been for us? how many lottery picks have the habs had? We suck at developing our players, so we should stop with the status quo.

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02-29-2012, 12:32 PM
  #85
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Trade Plekanec, get a winger for him. He sucks anyway with is wonderfull -18. Play the young pups

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02-29-2012, 12:33 PM
  #86
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play GRIGS on RW for the first year

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Bourque - Plekanec - Grigorenko
Geoffrion - Eller - Gionta
Palushaj - White - Moen

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:35 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Trade Plekanec, get a winger for him. He sucks anyway with is wonderfull -18
Not even sure if serious.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:36 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
play GRIGS on RW for the first year

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Bourque - Plekanec - Grigorenko
Geoffrion - Eller - Gionta
Palushaj - White - Moen
Play Grigo at center, he is our number one center of the future if we draft him

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02-29-2012, 12:40 PM
  #89
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As much as I love him I feel that Pleky should have been traded during the deadline or should be during the next one. I think he would waive his NTC if we are out of the playoffs and we send him to a team that has a shot at the cup.

The only reason we didn't is because that would be a indication that we're rebuilding and our management doesn't seem to want to do that.

Pleky would fetch the most on the market. He can shut down opposing players, play the PP and is part of the #1 PK in the league. A lot of our short handed chances are thanks to his play. He's also signed for the next couple of years at a good price.

I also think Eller has been growing into filling the same role as Pleky. He too plays the PK and has shown how good he is at it. He'll probably even be better next year, especially if we give him some wingers to work with.

What I'd like to see:

#1 Desharnais: they're already our #1 line
#2-3 Leblanc: he's looked better at center, give him wingers and see what he can do
#3-2 Eller: play him vs the opposing team's #1 lines, I think he can handle it and keep the puck cycling in the opposing zone
#4 White: Everything you want in a grinder

If we draft a center, have him center the #1 line in Hamilton, unless he's ready to center our #2 line then I don't want him to rot on our bench and be asked to play a defensive and grinding role if that's not how he plays.

I doubt we see anything close to that. I'd be willing to sacrifice a year if it meant letting our young guys learn. I doubt that we'll be able to make enough changes that we'll be competing for the Cup next year so I'd rather spend the year getting everyone ready to make a run at it in 2013-2014

Besides look at Ottawa. They thought they were sacrificing this year to let the young guys learn.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:48 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Trade Plekanec, get a winger for him. He sucks anyway with is wonderfull -18. Play the young pups
wonderful* anyways*
jeff carter -12, rick nash -24, eric staal -15, ryan getzlaf -15

Good players on bad teams that play a lot of minutes tend to have poor Plus minuses, omg logic?

Can we trade you to the future quebec nordiques board? Your contributions are agonizing to read.

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02-29-2012, 12:49 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Haaabs View Post

#1 Desharnais: they're already our #1 line

He's only our first line center because they play him our top 2 wingers. Desharnais wouldn't be producing much if he got Darche on his wing. Plekanec is still our best center and I can't seem to grasp the fact that Martin and Cunnyworth seem it's a good idea to play him with borderline Nhl players.

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02-29-2012, 12:49 PM
  #92
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It's hard to me to fathom someone saying "we're gonna have too many centers" when all of them are average.

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02-29-2012, 12:54 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
Stop it with your level headed arguments. My team sucks right now and I want to dream that Parise and Suter are coming here. Let me do that please...
Thing is - you don't have to dream (all that much anyway). Once you remove a lot of the deadweight and replace it with younger/hungrier players this team doesn't look so bad.

Cole - Desharnais - Patches - Might not be a superstar first line, but certain a dangerous one with lots of net presence.

??? - Eller - Gionta - A craft line. Eller gets the opportunity to feed guy comparable to Kostitsyn (whom he had much success with). Gionta gets a guy who can lug the puck and make passes. The third guy on this line could be either an off-season signing or a draft pick. This line could be as productive as the top line, which will stretch opposing defenses thin. They also play a different style of game, which will mean you can't use one strategy against our top two lines.

Bourque - Plekanec - Geoffrion - A strong two way line. On teams with a high octane top line they should see a lot of time against it. Geoffrion gets to learn the two-way trade from one of the best. Bourque adds physicality and a shot.

??? - White - ??? - I'd like a real energy line here please. If Moen comes back he can play here and eat up PK minutes. Otherwise one decent two way guy and one hard hitting guy.

Subban - Markov - Two wizards with the puck. Markov's return will also let Subban run a bit more. If Markov doesn't return we've got a problem and will need to go and pick up a #1 d-man.

Gorges - Emelin - Much like Markov will let Subban play a bit more aggressively, Gorges will allow Emelin to take a chance on those big hits.

??? - Kaberle/Weber/Diaz - I would prefer this be Weber of the three (although Diaz is the better defenseman we will need an extra puck moving blueline in this lineup) but any of them will do. Pair them up with a big guy who can kill penalties.

Special teams: Plekanec plays on the PK along with White, Geoffrion and Moen (or Moen's replacement). Gorges, Emelin, Subban and mystery guy hold down the blueline. Markov does not get PK time unless he's been sitting awhile - then throw him out for a shift or two to keep him warm. Eller takes Plek's place on the PP. Joined by Desharnais, Cole, Gionta, Patches and either mystery forward or Bourque. Most important thing is Pleks doesn't get PP time and Markov doesn't get PK time unless injuries or a string of penalties forces our hand. They need to be preserved and put where they are strongest.

With Price playing half decent behind this lineup. Obviously it hinges on attacting a decent guy for Eller's other wing and Markov coming back. Markov is the lynchpin - if he's done we're going to struggle until Subban is ready to replace him - which is two years of steady growth down the road yet.

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02-29-2012, 12:59 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
Stop it with your level headed arguments. My team sucks right now and I want to dream that Parise and Suter are coming here. Let me do that please...
The truth hurts? If we have an extreme hard time signing free agents, imagine now when we are a lottery team.....

Word of advice: Never keep your hopes up high. They're a usually crushed more often than not.

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02-29-2012, 01:01 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patofqc View Post
Trade Plekanec, get a winger for him. He sucks anyway with is wonderfull -18. Play the young pups
ya so wrong on so many levels.

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02-29-2012, 01:04 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by juve View Post
He's only our first line center because they play him our top 2 wingers. Desharnais wouldn't be producing much if he got Darche on his wing. Plekanec is still our best center and I can't seem to grasp the fact that Martin and Cunnyworth seem it's a good idea to play him with borderline Nhl players.
Martin did because he had no choice due to injuries, he needed Plekanec to play a big defensive role. I'm sure the lines would have been changed once we got a couple of guys back. Cunneyworth is just a terrible coach.

I can't believe people are writing the Pac-DD-Cole line as our first line for next year when it's clear that it's not working for the team. They represent what was missing in the second half when we went from unlucky to absolutely terrible: the lack of a two-way tough minutes line (and Randy's incapacity to adjust). It's much more a sign of a good team than having a big name star or a couple of players with great individual stat sheet.

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02-29-2012, 01:06 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Failing Hands View Post
DD is our point leader right now. If he has another season that he's on pace for 60+ points, guarantee we can fetch a big top 6 winger for him if we package a Weber or someone like that with him.

I'm sure there are team's out there that will be looking for Desharnais' skill set.
Good luck. Never in a million years will DD and Weber get you a big top 6 winger and I like DD.

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02-29-2012, 01:06 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by juve View Post
He's only our first line center because they play him our top 2 wingers. Desharnais wouldn't be producing much if he got Darche on his wing. Plekanec is still our best center and I can't seem to grasp the fact that Martin and Cunnyworth seem it's a good idea to play him with borderline Nhl players.
I 100% agree with you on that. Pleky is better than Desharnais and that's why I would trade him. Desharnais wouldn't fetch us much but if other GMs have any sense they realize Pleky's worth. I think that he'd be worth a lot during the trade deadline next year, some team will feel that all they're missing is a player like Pleky who can really do it all, and do it all really well to reach the Cup finals.

Realistically, I don't think we can make a good run at the Cup in the next few years which is why I'd trade Pleky (because he's worth more) and start playing for the future.

We play Pleky with Darche because our coaches don't want to win games, they are trying not to lose them. That's why we give our best center the responsibility to shut down opposing lines and the wingers that can play that role.

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02-29-2012, 01:07 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Madevilz View Post
Not even sure if serious.
yes he is

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02-29-2012, 01:08 PM
  #100
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All I know is we can't put Patches and Cole together next year without two comparable wingers to play on the 2nd line. Otherwise, we have to split them up to distribute the size.

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