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The Hockey News "Future Watch" 2012 (Habs ranked 28th)

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Old
02-29-2012, 08:36 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
This "list" could not be any more worthless if it was written on toilet paper.

So our prospect group puts us at almost dead last? That is funny because the habs seem to do nothing but churn out nhl level player after nhl level player. The habs actually turn these lower level talents into useful players while teams like Columbus turn superstars into Burger King employees. So ya I guess we have the worst prospects in the league, what a shame.
I think you're confusing past with present. The churning out NHL level players after NHL level player came from 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007 drafts when our GM didn't trade picks away like candy. After those drafts our pool was rated much higher. In 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 our prospect pool hasn't gotten the same kind of refill as players from the pool started graduating. In the last 4 drafts we've had a grand total of 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. When there isn't that many top 60 picks coming in, the prospect pool dropping in quality and depth is pretty expected. Even the Red Wings had 8 top 60 picks. You can't expect the scouting staff to pull off late round steals all the time. Luckily we should get a refill in 2012 and 2013 barring GM idiocy of dealing the picks...again.

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02-29-2012, 08:54 AM
  #102
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what team fighting for 8th sold ufas this year?

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02-29-2012, 09:00 AM
  #103
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what team fighting for 8th sold ufas this year?
Winnipeg traded Oduya for a 2nd and 3rd.

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02-29-2012, 12:07 PM
  #104
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Do you actually watch hockey???

Tinordi has had an outstanding season...........end of story.

Doesn't bottom 4 equal top 4 considering there are usually 6 guys in the D pairings?

I'd be quite happy if Tinordi ended up being a #4 guy who plays 18 minutes a game and destroys a couple guys. Basicly a pissed off Hall Gill....

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02-29-2012, 12:12 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Winnipeg traded Oduya for a 2nd and 3rd.
An Oduya-less team is as good as a Campoli-less team, my good sir.

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02-29-2012, 12:53 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
The NHL is a business, and playoff rev is huge. It's fun to sit in hindsight and say we should have done this or that, but the reality is that when you are in the playoff hunt you don't trade UFA's for draft picks/prospects.

As for Gainey's negotiting policy, I had no problem with it, as he said, if the player wants to be here then he'l remain here.
Your play-off revenue increases if you play more than 2 home games in the play-offs every season.

It's quite obvious that being a contender pays more than being a pretender.

The reality is, if you want to be a competitive team for a long time and want to win the stanley cup. You don't go about losing every asset you have for nothing. Which has been the Habs identity since they're last cup win.

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02-29-2012, 12:58 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Your play-off revenue increases if you play more than 2 home games in the play-offs every season.

It's quite obvious that being a contender pays more than being a pretender.

The reality is, if you want to be a competitive team for a long time and want to win the stanley cup. You don't go about losing every asset you have for nothing. Which has been the Habs identity since they're last cup win.
There's no way to know what your team will do in the playoffs, clearly when it comes to hockey playoffs unlike other sports, it's not uncommon to see lower seeded teams go far in the playoffs. The goal for the owners will be to make money, which is why you don't see many teams trade UFA's when they are playoff bound. What happens if Nashville ends up losing Weber? NJ with ZP? Yet they weren't traded.

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02-29-2012, 01:02 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
There's no way to know what your team will do in the playoffs, clearly when it comes to hockey playoffs unlike other sports, it's not uncommon to see lower seeded teams go far in the playoffs. The goal for the owners will be to make money, which is why you don't see many teams trade UFA's when they are playoff bound. What happens if Nashville ends up losing Weber? NJ with ZP? Yet they weren't traded.
They toil in mediocrity. They may survive because it's only one player, not the 10+ player list we have in recent memory.

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02-29-2012, 01:05 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
They toil in mediocrity. They may survive because it's only one player, not the 10+ player list we have in recent memory.
So you don't trade UFA's if you have only 1 but if you have a lot then you need to trade them all? I'm sure a lot of GM's would love to do that, the fans would be thrilled to see a bunch of players traded for draft picks right before the playoffs.

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02-29-2012, 01:15 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
So you don't trade UFA's if you have only 1 but if you have a lot then you need to trade them all? I'm sure a lot of GM's would love to do that, the fans would be thrilled to see a bunch of players traded for draft picks right before the playoffs.
You make an effort to understand whether or not a player has a commitment to staying to your team. If you realize that one of your players (while you MAY make 8th) is going to leave for nothing, I think it'd be in your best interest to turn that player into an asset going forward rather than hope for an unlikely miracle.

The year we knew that we were going to be rid of all of our key players to rebuild. It would've been smart to get something back for them. Instead, we did not, and we overpaid for some free agents which you and I both know is the wrong way to build a club.

If you want to build your team through the draft, you better make sure you have picks coming in and sign the players you do develop to deals or else you'll end up like this team. Forever in mediocrity, hoping for a miracle run and ebbing from 7th to 10th year after to year.

This potential top pick is the best thing to happen to this franchise in a long time, since the lottery that yielded us price. This management has made it too common place to lose players to free agency, give up on young players too quickly, make deals to fill holes and then create that same hole again to waste another draft pick to fill it once more, and to lose trades.

I say it is acceptable to lose a player to free agency. It happens to every team. But to do it on a consistent basis, year after year, that is how you become a mediocre team with only mediocrity on the horizon.

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02-29-2012, 01:22 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
You make an effort to understand whether or not a player has a commitment to staying to your team. If you realize that one of your players (while you MAY make 8th) is going to leave for nothing, I think it'd be in your best interest to turn that player into an asset going forward rather than hope for an unlikely miracle.

The year we knew that we were going to be rid of all of our key players to rebuild. It would've been smart to get something back for them. Instead, we did not, and we overpaid for some free agents which you and I both know is the wrong way to build a club.
Sounds all well and good but again there's a reason why you don't see teams in the playoffs trading UFA's. You are talking about one instance where we had a bunch, when the team went and upgraded the talent from what they lost imo.

While what you say makes sense if you are building a hockey team, but the reality is hockey is a business first and foremost. When millions of dollars are on the line, it's easy to sit on the computer and say they should do what's best for the future. When you are writing the checks for all the big salaries, I bet you would think a little differently.

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02-29-2012, 01:33 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Sounds all well and good but again there's a reason why you don't see teams in the playoffs trading UFA's. You are talking about one instance where we had a bunch, when the team went and upgraded the talent from what they lost imo.

While what you say makes sense if you are building a hockey team, but the reality is hockey is a business first and foremost. When millions of dollars are on the line, it's easy to sit on the computer and say they should do what's best for the future. When you are writing the checks for all the big salaries, I bet you would think a little differently.
Winning brings money. That's why smaller market teams (like the preds) are going all out to win. They need that revenue and they need to build a fan base. A team like Montreal is going to make revenue no matter what, we know that, so they should be committed to giving their dedicated fans a winning hockey team.

I understand your point about it being a business, but there has to be a line to tread, we're making purely business decisions right now and not caring about being a winning team, a contending team, a perennial contender. That culture needs to change.

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02-29-2012, 01:51 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Winning brings money. That's why smaller market teams (like the preds) are going all out to win. They need that revenue and they need to build a fan base. A team like Montreal is going to make revenue no matter what, we know that, so they should be committed to giving their dedicated fans a winning hockey team.

I understand your point about it being a business, but there has to be a line to tread, we're making purely business decisions right now and not caring about being a winning team, a contending team, a perennial contender. That culture needs to change.
I would like to see you be the GM for the Habs, be in a playoff hunt and yet trade away your UFA's for draft picks. I'm sure the fans and players would love you for it.

As for the team making purely business decisions, it shouldn't be a big surprise, the guy that owns the team just forked over what 600M bucks?

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02-29-2012, 01:57 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I would like to see you be the GM for the Habs, be in a playoff hunt and yet trade away your UFA's for draft picks. I'm sure the fans and players would love you for it.

As for the team making purely business decisions, it shouldn't be a big surprise, the guy that owns the team just forked over what 600M bucks?
And he's getting sell-out after sell-out to watch a team flounder at the bottom fo the standings. Not a big deal.

I'd happily have the ire of the fans because I dealt an impending UFA. It's not like the fans are happy with Gauthier not dealing Moen. They will be equally unhappy when Moen walks for free during free agency.

The fans were also disgruntled when we traded our top prospect for Gomez. Every decision is liked or hated by a sizeable proportion of your fan base. That's the given in a big market. You have to make a plan and stick with it. I'd have a plan that ensured that no matter what, unless my team is a real legitimate contender, I'm making sure my UFA's are signed, have a strong interest in re-signing and we're close to the deal, or I'm moving them for value at the deadline.

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02-29-2012, 02:10 PM
  #115
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And he's getting sell-out after sell-out to watch a team flounder at the bottom fo the standings. Not a big deal.

I'd happily have the ire of the fans because I dealt an impending UFA. It's not like the fans are happy with Gauthier not dealing Moen. They will be equally unhappy when Moen walks for free during free agency.

The fans were also disgruntled when we traded our top prospect for Gomez. Every decision is liked or hated by a sizeable proportion of your fan base. That's the given in a big market. You have to make a plan and stick with it. I'd have a plan that ensured that no matter what, unless my team is a real legitimate contender, I'm making sure my UFA's are signed, have a strong interest in re-signing and we're close to the deal, or I'm moving them for value at the deadline.
We'll see if the team keeps selling out next year if this keeps up.

As for Moen not a good point since we are in last place and are talking about teams that don't suck. I agree you have to have a plan and stick to it but you also will have a boss and you will have to answer to him when you miss the playoffs.

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02-29-2012, 02:15 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
We'll see if the team keeps selling out next year if this keeps up.

As for Moen not a good point since we are in last place and are talking about teams that don't suck. I agree you have to have a plan and stick to it but you also will have a boss and you will have to answer to him when you miss the playoffs.
My predecessor was a giant tool? :p

I understand your points, I do. My philosophy always has been to keep integrating value into your farm system, try to compete but do not handcuff yourself with too many UFA's in the same time frame (that was a lot of our difficulty too, we'd have too many expiring UFA contracts in the same season, increasing the likelihood of having to stand idly by and hope for the best). To use the abundance of your prospect pool to acquire the missing pieces and make smart, calculated free agent signings (mostly depth or role players that fit a specific need, rather than trying to build your roster out of high priced free agent offensive players).

I think we both can agree that this team has lacked an identity, a purpose and a plan in the last going off. You need to have a plan you believe in, people employed that you entrust to stick and believe in that plan and an execution of it.

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02-29-2012, 02:22 PM
  #117
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I think we both can agree that this team has lacked an identity, a purpose and a plan in the last going off. You need to have a plan you believe in, people employed that you entrust to stick and believe in that plan and an execution of it.
For sure, it's been really tough watching this team spin it's wheels. I have no clue what direction they are headed in and I'm scared to see what they will do next.

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02-29-2012, 02:25 PM
  #118
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For sure, it's been really tough watching this team spin it's wheels. I have no clue what direction they are headed in and I'm scared to see what they will do next.
I think it's bad when we're all collectively holding our breath, hoping the team doesn't trade it's 1st round pick.

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02-29-2012, 02:31 PM
  #119
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If you can't make a realistic case for winning the cup (that's all that matters) and you have assets that you don't want to keep, i don't see any reason as to why you would risk losing them for nothing. A couple games of playoff revenue really? If you have forward thinking you'd realize by trading those unwanted players for picks and prospects your future is brighter and you have a better chance to be successful in the long haul which in turn will lead to fiscal success as well! The idea of playoff revenue is such a cop out and actually a slap in the face to fans that want to see championships and longstanding success.

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02-29-2012, 02:33 PM
  #120
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I think it's bad when we're all collectively holding our breath, hoping the team doesn't trade it's 1st round pick.
I'm holding my breath when I hear PG is doing anything these days (or Molson if he's pulling the strings) It's a scary time to be a Hab fan, what a nightmare this season has turned into.


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If you can't make a realistic case for winning the cup (that's all that matters) and you have assets that you don't want to keep, i don't see any reason as to why you would risk losing them for nothing. A couple games of playoff revenue really? If you have forward thinking you'd realize by trading those unwanted players for picks and prospects your future is brighter and you have a better chance to be successful in the long haul which in turn will lead to fiscal success as well! The idea of playoff revenue is such a cop out and actually a slap in the face to fans that want to see championships and longstanding success.
do we really need to go over this all over again? your reply is spoken just like a fan that doesn't have to answer to anyone. When you have a boss that you have to explain why you traded UFA's and missed the playoffs when you were in the playoff hunt, I bet you will think differently.

Granted it sounds great in theory but in reality with millions of dollars at stake then it's not going to happen very often.

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02-29-2012, 02:45 PM
  #121
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do we really need to go over this all over again? your reply is spoken just like a fan that doesn't have to answer to anyone. When you have a boss that you have to explain why you traded UFA's and missed the playoffs when you were in the playoff hunt, I bet you will think differently.

Granted it sounds great in theory but in reality with millions of dollars at stake then it's not going to happen very often.
if millions of dollars are at stake why are we dealing with scott gomez, why did we trade for kaberle when every other team was laughing at how terrible he is? that's almost 12 million dollars of dead weight doing absolutely nothing! We can handle giving money to people that don't deserve it, but we can't secure a brighter future which in turn lead to MORE money if you have a semblance of foresight? Its Very narrow-minded thinking and i'm not giving our organization ANY credit to what they have done to our franchise. Aren't we paying millions to Jacques Martin to sit at home? How about Markov? Millions to do nothing because our doctors can't do their job, maybe Recchi was right? Our organization doesn't mind hemorrhaging money to people that do nothing, but BAH GAWD trading ufas because it might lead to some playoff revenue is just outrageous!

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02-29-2012, 02:51 PM
  #122
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if millions of dollars are at stake why are we dealing with scott gomez, why did we trade for kaberle when every other team was laughing at how terrible he is? that's almost 12 million dollars of dead weight doing absolutely nothing! We can handle giving money to people that don't deserve it, but we can't secure a brighter future which in turn lead to MORE money if you have a semblance of foresight? Its Very narrow-minded thinking and i'm not giving our organization ANY credit to what they have done to our franchise. Aren't we paying millions to Jacques Martin to sit at home? How about Markov? Millions to do nothing because our doctors can't do their job, maybe Recchi was right? Our organization doesn't mind hemorrhaging money to people that do nothing, but BAH GAWD trading ufas because it might lead to some playoff revenue is just outrageous!
There's no if, millions of dollars are at stake every year. For every home game they are making 21K+ in ticket sales plus tv rev and concessions. That's why teams try to add guys like Kabs at the deadline even though it's risky, because their boss wants to make money in the playoffs. This is the business side of hockey and it's a reality.

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02-29-2012, 03:03 PM
  #123
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There's no if, millions of dollars are at stake every year. For every home game they are making 21K+ in ticket sales plus tv rev and concessions. That's why teams try to add guys like Kabs at the deadline even though it's risky, because their boss wants to make money in the playoffs. This is the business side of hockey and it's a reality.
8-12 playoff games in the future for many consecutive seasons outweighs the "chance" of a 2-3 playoff games once a year. That should be the business side of hockey.

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02-29-2012, 03:18 PM
  #124
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8-12 playoff games in the future for many consecutive seasons outweighs the "chance" of a 2-3 playoff games once a year. That should be the business side of hockey.
Tell that to the person that writes the checks

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02-29-2012, 03:23 PM
  #125
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Tell that to the person that writes the checks
You mean us, who pay for this mediocrity?

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