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Is Hagelin "untouchable?"

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:21 PM
  #76
BlueshirtBlitz
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
the numbers do not support that assessment. At ES their offensive numbers are very similar and McD is on the ice alot with Boyle's line defending while MDZ is on the ice alot with Gabby trying to push the biscuit. I think MDZ has better vision and is a slightly better passer but you are not giving McD enough credit; he is in the top 10 in the league with ES points for a d-man. Not bad for a first year shut down d-man who plays a ton with the team's checking line who have 13 goals all year.
There's a reason MDZ is on the ice with Gaborik and the PP- he's the superior offensive player.

I am giving McD enough credit, he's stupendous defensively and good offensively. But MDZ is good defensively and stupendous offensively. That's what i'm saying.

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02-29-2012, 03:42 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
There's a reason MDZ is on the ice with Gaborik and the PP- he's the superior offensive player.

I am giving McD enough credit, he's stupendous defensively and good offensively. But MDZ is good defensively and stupendous offensively. That's what i'm saying.
Superior does not necessarily mean more effective. MDZ hasn't been that great on the PP all season. He hasn't been a liability but he hasn't helped it much either. He gets the third most PP time behind Richards and Gaborik and he has just 11 assists on it.

I'm willing to bet if McDonagh was getting his time he would be just as effective, if not moreso. So far he's gotten 1/5 the PP time MDZ has gotten

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02-29-2012, 03:46 PM
  #78
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Superior does not necessarily mean more effective. MDZ hasn't been that great on the PP all season. He hasn't been a liability but he hasn't helped it much either. He gets the third most PP time behind Richards and Gaborik and he has just 11 assists on it.

I'm willing to bet if McDonagh was getting his time he would be just as effective, if not moreso. So far he's gotten 1/5 the PP time MDZ has gotten
I disagree. Sure, we can argue if it's MDZ making the PP worse or if the ****** system we run for the PP makes MDZ look less effective, but I believe it's not MDZ's fault the PP has been atrocious, and in fact when it's doing good he's usually right in the middle of it.

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02-29-2012, 03:52 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I disagree. Sure, we can argue if it's MDZ making the PP worse or if the ****** system we run for the PP makes MDZ look less effective, but I believe it's not MDZ's fault the PP has been atrocious, and in fact when it's doing good he's usually right in the middle of it.
Considering we're sitting 28th in the league, I would say he doesn't help. He's not good at walking the blue line and he telegraphs all of his shots. One day he's going to be one of the reasons it is great, but this season he's just been kind of "there" by default.

By comparison Girardi has 8 points on it. That's only 3 less than MDZ and he gets way less time on the PP. I think McDonagh is better offensively than Girardi

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03-01-2012, 02:26 AM
  #80
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Far from untouchable, but if the front office is smart then they'll keep him. The value they're getting from him is probably more than they ever expected. However, if the right trade presented itself where we had to give up Hags, I wouldn't be too let down, as long as we received good value in return and improved our chances at a cup. I love the way he plays though and I hope we continue to see him in blue for a while.

McDonagh and Stepan are the young guys that flirt with the "U" word.

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03-01-2012, 03:07 AM
  #81
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not even hank is untouchable il take many players for him, malkin, ovy(still would) crosby(hell make it back) Stamkos( hell il take my chances with hall tavares and neil and trade for a good goalie)

i love hank but you have to score to win

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03-01-2012, 03:09 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by clemsonRanger View Post
not even hank is untouchable il take many players for him, malkin, ovy(still would) crosby(hell make it back) Stamkos( hell il take my chances with hall tavares and neil and trade for a good goalie)

i love hank but you have to score to win
Hall and Tavares for Hank? No way.

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03-01-2012, 03:16 AM
  #83
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goalie is the most important position in hockey. wanna see what this team is like with an average to below average goalie? watch our games with Biron in net.

i wouldnt trade henrik for anyone right now. he should be MVP of the league, or at least a finalist.

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03-01-2012, 03:28 AM
  #84
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I wouldn't trade Hank even for the season Malkin is having or Karlsson on the defensive side the season he's having and heck Stamkos with his goal scoring ability.

Hank is truly untouchable.

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03-01-2012, 03:39 AM
  #85
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nope! I agree, Lundqvist is our only pure untouchable. And for the sake of reality, I gotta think Callahan is untouchable as well. Meaning Malkin/Stamkos for Callahan? I think we'd have to but that is not realistically gonna happen. Many players have to be in our no-way-in-hell category, which is also like saying that no realistic trade would ever come up where trading those players would make sense.

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03-01-2012, 06:59 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by clemsonRanger View Post
not even hank is untouchable il take many players for him, malkin, ovy(still would) crosby(hell make it back) Stamkos( hell il take my chances with hall tavares and neil and trade for a good goalie)

i love hank but you have to score to win
You also have to keep the puck out of the net to win. Ask Philly fans.

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03-01-2012, 07:24 AM
  #87
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Hank is the only untouchable but I think McDonaugh and Cally would be REALLY hard to deal. McDonaugh because he is going to be a perennial all-star and Cally because he is the lifeblood of this team.

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03-01-2012, 09:03 AM
  #88
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In reality, no player is untouchable. If Cory Schneider could be had for Dubinsky, and Hank could return Malkin, you wouldn't consider it?

Obviously never going to happen and it was a far-fetched example of the point I am trying to prove here which is, if a team can maximize a players value while bringing in a player at the same position in a lesser deal they would have to consider it.

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03-01-2012, 11:47 AM
  #89
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I don't know if Hags is untouchable, but if there is a close second to that, he's there.

No one knows what his ceiling is if he can put it all together. For that reason the incentive to deal him is low.

A bit of a reach perhaps, but if Hags is a 25 goal scorer excellent PK man, and persistent short hand threat.....why deal him?

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03-01-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
There's a reason MDZ is on the ice with Gaborik and the PP- he's the superior offensive player.

I am giving McD enough credit, he's stupendous defensively and good offensively. But MDZ is good defensively and stupendous offensively. That's what i'm saying.
Torts' coaches from a defensive posture. MDZ is on the ice with Gabby because neither of them play against the other teams best offensive players (when we can help it). And MDZ is not stupendous offensively. His shot from the point is not a weapon like Karlsson or Lidstrom or Weber. He's very good offensively but not elite.

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03-01-2012, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Torts' coaches from a defensive posture. MDZ is on the ice with Gabby because neither of them play against the other teams best offensive players (when we can help it). And MDZ is not stupendous offensively. His shot from the point is not a weapon like Karlsson or Lidstrom or Weber. He's very good offensively but not elite.
Very nicely articulated and right on the money!

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03-01-2012, 04:56 PM
  #92
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Oh you would.
And what is that supposed to mean.

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03-01-2012, 05:04 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Torts' coaches from a defensive posture. MDZ is on the ice with Gabby because neither of them play against the other teams best offensive players (when we can help it). And MDZ is not stupendous offensively. His shot from the point is not a weapon like Karlsson or Lidstrom or Weber. He's very good offensively but not elite.
MDZ isn't a shooting d-man, he's a passing d-man. He's never going to be the guy with a booming point shot, but he's going to do stuff like this.



He thinks the game very quickly and makes very smart moves on the offensive side of the puck. PLUS he's only 21. He IS stupendous offensively and is going to only get better.

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03-01-2012, 05:08 PM
  #94
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goalie is the most important position in hockey. wanna see what this team is like with an average to below average goalie? watch our games with Biron in net.

i wouldnt trade henrik for anyone right now. he should be MVP of the league, or at least a finalist.
Disagree. Goalie is the most important position for THIS TEAM because we have one of the best, and not a very talented group in front of him.

But Id be careful about calling it the most important position in all of hockey. Take a look at the goaltenders that have won cups since the lockout. Depends on where your strengths are.

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03-01-2012, 05:11 PM
  #95
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You can't win a game without a Goalie, haha

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03-01-2012, 05:18 PM
  #96
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hagelin isn't untouchable. although his value should be really high in the off season, we most likely wouldn't be able to gauge is true value until earliest after next year. that is even early as well. does anyone think he should be a piece in any potential top 6 forward deal for bobby ryan if hes available, or even a rick nash since most likely he is getting 2 pieces less in the deal minimum. should we try to maximize and capitalize on his value due to needs and more kids on the up and coming?

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Old
03-05-2012, 09:25 AM
  #97
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Actually untouchable almost does not exist, because anybody would be traded for Malkin or stamkos.

But as to virtually untouchable, Hagelin is close.
He's played very well, is on ELC contract, and we are just starting to see what he can do.

Would extend courtesy to listen with an open mind, but would require massive overpayment.

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