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Too many centers next year?

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Old
02-29-2012, 01:12 PM
  #101
HabsSlappy
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Originally Posted by Carey Roy View Post
The problem with that is that you will blame our management later for your unrealistic expectations.

You = All the people who believe we have a chance to sign Parise and/or Suter
I agree that many will blame management for not signing them. I have a bit more of a level head and understand that player also has to want to come to the city and team. It isn't like a ebay where the highest price always wins.

But I will not say that we don't have a chance to sign these guys. If we ponie up the money, we should at least have a shot.

The NHLPA players pole had us as one of the top clubs that players would like to play for, despite what everyone says on these boards.

Besides, our GM will be Pierre McGuire and he will give Parise 15 million a year as well as a coupon book for free hugs if he signs in Montreal.

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02-29-2012, 01:16 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
I'm fairly sure Columbus would trade us L.A.'s first round pick (Carter trade) + a decent roster player like Umberger. That's a pretty fair deal, if say that pick is anywhere from 15-22 overall. Umberger is 3.75 a year, and was averaging 20+ goals and 50+ points a year before this year. It's a move we would probably never make because we would risk missing the playoffs next year, but I would do it because it would help us win in subsequent years.
.
Umberger is a formerly decent player. This year he was been-in a word-awful. His cap hit will be $4.6 m starting next year and his contract lasts 5 years (through 2016-17). Columbus is in full rebuild and Plekanec is not a player who one builds around. They wouldn't sacrifice a mid first rounder for him for certain. I think this one is a no go for both sides.

This talk about switching DD to wing-it's fairly common on this board-is bizarre. He's tied for 18th in points among ALL centers and is tied for 11th in assists among ALL centers. He has a whopping 113 NHL games under his belt; he'll only get better.

The notion that he's a defensive liability is becoming more and more absurd as well. He's +16 ES over his past 28 games on a team which has a negative goals differential. A shutdown center defensively? Of course not. Adequate and responsible defensively; yes.

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02-29-2012, 01:29 PM
  #103
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Easy solution: give Grigorenko at least one more year in the Q, let him carry the team without Roy, Comtois and Tam. Allow him to play a bigger role on Team Russia without Kuznetzov and (probably) Yakupov. End up with a more mature Grigorenko (19-21 vs 18-20) on a bargain ELC contract.


Last edited by Roulin: 02-29-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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02-29-2012, 01:48 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Haaabs View Post
What I'd like to see:

#1 Desharnais: they're already our #1 line
#2-3 Leblanc: he's looked better at center, give him wingers and see what he can do
#3-2 Eller: play him vs the opposing team's #1 lines, I think he can handle it and keep the puck cycling in the opposing zone
#4 White: Everything you want in a grinder
Why on earth would you want to see this?

It is probably the worst center depth in the entire league.

Quote:
If we draft a center, have him center the #1 line in Hamilton, unless he's ready to center our #2 line then I don't want him to rot on our bench and be asked to play a defensive and grinding role if that's not how he plays.
Impossible.

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02-29-2012, 02:01 PM
  #105
Lars Mon Amour
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Originally Posted by The Reem View Post
I think you missed a few steps. One of which is to fix that god awful defense or we're not going anywhere even if we have some firepower upfront.
Never heard of Andrei Markov? What about Tinordi and Beaulieu when they'll be with the team?

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02-29-2012, 02:09 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
Never heard of Andrei Markov? What about Tinordi and Beaulieu when they'll be with the team?
Tinordi and Beaulieu will, if everything goes absolutely brilliantly, be top 4 dmen in 2014-15. And that's me being wildly optimistic. Subban's situation doesn't come around often, and neither of those prospects look like a Subban to me.

As far as planning the defense around Markov, I'll assume you've taken a break from following hockey since 2010. Nothing wrong with that, there are plenty of worthwhile hobbies!

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02-29-2012, 02:10 PM
  #107
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People are too hard on Desharnais, but on the other hand, others are right in saying he's not a "true" first line center, in the sense that you expect such player to be able to go toes to toes against any other center in the league and not get burn. Something that is very hard, and something that Desharnais as yet to demonstrate. Plekanec did, many time. That's why he is still so important, and that's why it's also important we help him produce - by giving him adequate linemates.

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02-29-2012, 02:15 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
People are too hard on Desharnais, but on the other hand, others are right in saying he's not a "true" first line center, in the sense that you expect such player to be able to go toes to toes against any other center in the league and not get burn. Something that is very hard, and something that Desharnais as yet to demonstrate. Plekanec did, many time. That's why he is still so important, and that's why it's also important we help him produce - by giving him adequate linemates.
Neither is a first line center.

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02-29-2012, 02:17 PM
  #109
Lars Mon Amour
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Tinordi and Beaulieu will, if everything goes absolutely brilliantly, be top 4 dmen in 2014-15. And that's me being wildly optimistic. Subban's situation doesn't come around often, and neither of those prospects look like a Subban to me.

As far as planning the defense around Markov, I'll assume you've taken a break from following hockey since 2010. Nothing wrong with that, there are plenty of worthwhile hobbies!
I've never took a break from following hockey, I'm sorry sir. But you you know as much as I know, that Markov will be back next year for the first game. If he's not, then...shame on me.

Btw, I'm not "planning" the defense around Markov. If he's back, it would be definitely a plus for the youngsters and the entire team.


Last edited by Lars Mon Amour: 02-29-2012 at 02:30 PM.
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02-29-2012, 02:17 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Neither is a first line center.
Exactly (well, IMHO). So both are currently necessary.

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02-29-2012, 02:20 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Exactly (well, IMHO). So both are currently necessary.
Incorrect! So only ONE is currently necessary and the other has to go.

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02-29-2012, 02:28 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Mover View Post
I've never take a break from following hockey, I'm sorry sir. But you you know as much as I know, that Markov will be back next year for the first game. If he's not, then...shame on me.

Btw, I'm not "planning" the defense around Markov. If he's back, it would be definitely a plus for the youngsters and the entire team.
Absolutely, if Markov can still play like he used to, that's a plus. I just think that's an extremely risky bet. IMO the defense is a huge problem.

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02-29-2012, 02:40 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I know this keeps falling on deaf ears, but we will NOT draft Grigorenko! He may very well not be one of the top five forwards on Montreal's draft board on draft day. He may not be top five on a lot of team's draft boards by then.

This year reminds me so much of "trade up and draft Cherepanov in the top five" back in 2007 that it's scary. You saw how he slipped....
Has he been this inconsistent? But generally yes I wouldn't be surprised if we passed on Grigorenko.
Who do you think should be 2nd and third on our list?

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02-29-2012, 02:42 PM
  #114
Et le But
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Incorrect! So only ONE is currently necessary and the other has to go.
Has to go? Why? So all our hopes and expectations can be on a rookie? So we can have even less forwards next year who can handle the puck?

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02-29-2012, 02:44 PM
  #115
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I'm really not sure with Grigorenko. I hope that we will get the 1st overall or that we will be able to move up to get that pick. Yakupov is the only sure elite talent in this draft IMO.

With the 2nd overall, I'd likely go with Forsberg. At this point, I would also pick Murray and Dumba before Grigorenko and Galchenyuk.

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02-29-2012, 02:47 PM
  #116
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Hopefully draft Grigorenko, demote Gomez, trade Desharnais or move to wing.

I get not wanting to break up our top line but let's not go crazy, Desharnais has developed into a somewhat productive player. He is not as valuable as Plekanec (who is probably the perfect 2nd line centre on a championship team) or as well suited to a 3rd line role as Eller.

He's a top 2 C on a non-playoff team. Great he's in the league, now let's move him to a floundering team so he can continue to be a decent 50-65 pts centre on a Columbus or something. We have to set the bar higher (excuse the pun) than Desharnais. Grigorenko is it.

Then acquire a solid 4th line centre. Give Grigorenko-Plekanec-Eller-? time to settle in and you finally have (if the 4C is great) a terrific mix up the middle.

You do Grigorenko-Desharnais-Eller-? and it's not nearly as strong.

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02-29-2012, 02:47 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Has to go? Why? So all our hopes and expectations can be on a rookie? So we can have even less forwards next year who can handle the puck?
So that we can legitimately address the center ice position, which is the main problem with this team.

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02-29-2012, 02:48 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by goman View Post
Hopefully draft Grigorenko, demote Gomez, trade Desharnais or move to wing.

I get not wanting to break up our top line but let's not go crazy, Desharnais has developed into a somewhat productive player. He is not as valuable as Plekanec (who is probably the perfect 2nd line centre on a championship team) or as well suited to a 3rd line role as Eller.

He's a top 2 C on a non-playoff team. Great he's in the league, now let's move him to a floundering team so he can continue to be a decent 50-65 pts centre on a Columbus or something. We have to set the bar higher (excuse the pun) than Desharnais. Grigorenko is it.

Then acquire a solid 4th line centre. Give Grigorenko-Plekanec-Eller-? time to settle in and you finally have (if the 4C is great) a terrific mix up the middle.

You do Grigorenko-Desharnais-Eller-? and it's not nearly as strong.
I agree with that.

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02-29-2012, 02:50 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
So that we can legitimately address the center ice position, which is the main problem with this team.
If you draft Grigorenko or Galchenyuk and they make the NHL, move Desharnais to the wing. Unless we can overpay for Semin or Parise, we need all the forward talent we can get.

Plekanec, Eller and Desharnais are the least of this teams problems. You do realize right now Rene Bourque is one of our top 4 wingers, right?

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02-29-2012, 02:56 PM
  #120
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If there's 1 guy I listen to about juniors it's Stephane Leroux and what he said 2 days ago is spot on I think in terms of comparison. He compare the potential and type of players the top 3 prospects are to NHL players and that's what he came up with.

Nail Yakupov - Pavel Bure
Grigorenko - Joe Thornton
Filip Forsberg - Daniel Alfredson

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02-29-2012, 04:32 PM
  #121
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I thought Frosberg was more in the power-forward mold, so I don't really get the Alfredson comparison.

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02-29-2012, 04:56 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
I thought Frosberg was more in the power-forward mold, so I don't really get the Alfredson comparison.
I wouldn't call him a PF, he doesn't shy away from contact and he claims he models himself after a certain other Forsberg but his biggest weakness right now is his need to fill into his frame. He doesn't have the strength right now to play like a PF.

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02-29-2012, 06:14 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Carey Roy View Post
Move up to get Yakupov and play him with Plekanec. Problem solved and everyone is happy!
Maybe the lottery will give the Habs the #1 choice .

Now. can we live with a 5'10 winger, a Russian on top of that ?

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02-29-2012, 06:15 PM
  #124
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total jinx thread here....

habs win 9 in a row now

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02-29-2012, 06:16 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
If you draft Grigorenko or Galchenyuk and they make the NHL, move Desharnais to the wing. Unless we can overpay for Semin or Parise, we need all the forward talent we can get.

Plekanec, Eller and Desharnais are the least of this teams problems. You do realize right now Rene Bourque is one of our top 4 wingers, right?
I don't see how any of these two can play at NHL level next season. Grigo is overated and the other one has spent the whole season injured in the OHL.

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