HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > San Jose Sharks
Notices

2012-2013 Sharks Roster analysis

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-29-2012, 02:09 PM
  #51
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Until the cap and CBA are sorted out, you can't really say with any certainty that we couldn't sign Stuart.
True. I am making the assumption that best case, the cap ends up around this area. From what I've heard, Bettman is strongly pushing to get the cap lowered....

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:09 PM
  #52
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
It's the whole ball of wax and you have to go out and find similar players with similar numbers. Yes, the agents absolutely know underlying stats, but they also know comparable players. Show me a player that is comparable across the board that makes $2.5mil.
These are the guys making $2.2mil-$2.8mil this year on UFA deals:

Sturm
Samuelsson
Handzus
Prospal
Malhotra
Glencross
Pahlsson
Bergenheim
Cleary
Langenbrunner

I'd take Winnik any day of the week over Sturm, Samuelsson, Handzus and Bergenheim - probably Pahlsson as well. Glencross is probably better than Winnik but his contract is super long and has an NTC while Malhotra is a better player. Prospal, Cleary and Langenbrunner are different types of players entirely but I would take Winnik over Prospal for sure but it's difficult to compare him to the other two. I don't think $2.2-2.5mil is that outrageous.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:12 PM
  #53
WantonAbandon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Winchester is likely gone.

He has played well, but SJ has too much depth. It wouldn't be fair to kick Wingels or Desjardins out of the lineup.

The only way SJ could sign Moore, Winnik, AND Stuart is if Handzsus is dropped. In any case, LA and Anaheim should have more dollars to attract Stuart with. He may take a couple hundred thousand off to play in SJ, but anymore and it doesn't balance out.
They probably could sign all three for about the 7-8 million range. I think you need a 20 man roster... so with those three they would be at 18 with about >1-3 million in cap space. So you probably are right. However I'd expect Moore to be the odd man out.

WantonAbandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:12 PM
  #54
Gilligans Island
Registered User
 
Gilligans Island's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF/Bay Area
Posts: 7,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
True. I am making the assumption that best case, the cap ends up around this area. From what I've heard, Bettman is strongly pushing to get the cap lowered....
if the cap is lowered, salaries would be rolled back. Just like the last lockout. It's proportional.

Gilligans Island is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:14 PM
  #55
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
Not arguing that Winchester might be gone but he, Wingels and Desi couldn't possibly be more different hockey players if they tried.

I'll be shocked if Wingels isn't a regular in the top 9 next season & Winchester won't really ever be much more than a good 4th liner.
Well, you raise an interesting point, and this kind of goes to Vaasa's tenet about PROSPECTS and keeping them.

Where DOES Wingels fit next year? He's not going to displace anyone in the top-6; not even close. The only reason he's gotten a sniff this year is because of injuries He's a capable third-liner, but not as effective as Winnik, Moore, or Galiardi. One could argue that given his skillset, he's even less preferable than Desjardins or Handzus on the bottom lines. Talent wise, at least in my eyes, he is inferior to Sheppard; that is another road block in his way.

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:16 PM
  #56
WantonAbandon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
If Mitchell is on this team next year, we weren't able to sign the guys we want IMHO.
Depends how much he and his agent want...

WantonAbandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:19 PM
  #57
WantonAbandon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,034
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Well, you raise an interesting point, and this kind of goes to Vaasa's tenet about PROSPECTS and keeping them.

Where DOES Wingels fit next year? He's not going to displace anyone in the top-6; not even close. The only reason he's gotten a sniff this year is because of injuries He's a capable third-liner, but not as effective as Winnik, Moore, or Galiardi. One could argue that given his skillset, he's even less preferable than Desjardins or Handzus on the bottom lines. Talent wise, at least in my eyes, he is inferior to Sheppard; that is another road block in his way.
I think he has more then earned a second look next season along with reconsideration of just about every point you made. Don't you?

WantonAbandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:20 PM
  #58
stalockrox
Registered User
 
stalockrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,196
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Well, you raise an interesting point, and this kind of goes to Vaasa's tenet about PROSPECTS and keeping them.

Where DOES Wingels fit next year? He's not going to displace anyone in the top-6; not even close. The only reason he's gotten a sniff this year is because of injuries He's a capable third-liner, but not as effective as Winnik, Moore, or Galiardi. One could argue that given his skillset, he's even less preferable than Desjardins or Handzus on the bottom lines. Talent wise, at least in my eyes, he is inferior to Sheppard; that is another road block in his way.
I don't even know what to say to the bolded part...I don't have a lot of hope that Sheppard is ever going to turn into much of anything, but that 'talent' that you're talking about, he hasn't shown it outside of his Junior career. If I had to choose between Wingels and Sheppard it's a no brainer for me.

Injuries are a pretty big reason why a lot of prospects get ice time they might not otherwise get and Wingels has been very good.

If Winnik and Moore are bothing wanting $2.5mil/yr contracts one of them can walk.

This is the problem with talking about next years roster while the season is still going...there is a whole lot of uncertainty.

stalockrox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:25 PM
  #59
SJeasy
Registered User
 
SJeasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Jose
Country: United States
Posts: 12,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Well, you raise an interesting point, and this kind of goes to Vaasa's tenet about PROSPECTS and keeping them.

Where DOES Wingels fit next year? He's not going to displace anyone in the top-6; not even close. The only reason he's gotten a sniff this year is because of injuries He's a capable third-liner, but not as effective as Winnik, Moore, or Galiardi. One could argue that given his skillset, he's even less preferable than Desjardins or Handzus on the bottom lines. Talent wise, at least in my eyes, he is inferior to Sheppard; that is another road block in his way.
What I see is that Wingels is very capable of fulfilling a 4th line role, but being a very able and versatile top 6 substitute for short periods of time. I could see him as a regular 4th liner while being held in reserve.

Out of curiosity, have you heard of any interest in Stuart by the Sharks? Not interest from Stuart in returning of which we are all aware.

SJeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:27 PM
  #60
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
Depends how much he and his agent want...
There is no space for him. Really. Even at league minimum.

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:29 PM
  #61
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stalockrox View Post
I don't even know what to say to the bolded part...I don't have a lot of hope that Sheppard is ever going to turn into much of anything, but that 'talent' that you're talking about, he hasn't shown it outside of his Junior career. If I had to choose between Wingels and Sheppard it's a no brainer for me.

Injuries are a pretty big reason why a lot of prospects get ice time they might not otherwise get and Wingels has been very good.

If Winnik and Moore are bothing wanting $2.5mil/yr contracts one of them can walk.

This is the problem with talking about next years roster while the season is still going...there is a whole lot of uncertainty.
Sheppard was good in the 2008 season. He played quite well. He has the potential; its manifestation is up to him.

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:30 PM
  #62
Gilligans Island
Registered User
 
Gilligans Island's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SF/Bay Area
Posts: 7,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
What I see is that Wingels is very capable of fulfilling a 4th line role, but being a very able and versatile top 6 substitute for short periods of time. I could see him as a regular 4th liner while being held in reserve.

Out of curiosity, have you heard of any interest in Stuart by the Sharks? Not interest from Stuart in returning of which we are all aware.
Trick question. Wouldn't that be tampering?

Gilligans Island is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:34 PM
  #63
magic school bus
***********
 
magic school bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,438
vCash: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Trick question. Wouldn't that be tampering?
Well, we've heard tiny rumors about trying to bring back Ray Whitney. I haven't heard any Stuart rumors like that from the SJ side.

magic school bus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:36 PM
  #64
do0glas
Registered User
 
do0glas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
Well, you raise an interesting point, and this kind of goes to Vaasa's tenet about PROSPECTS and keeping them.

Where DOES Wingels fit next year? He's not going to displace anyone in the top-6; not even close. The only reason he's gotten a sniff this year is because of injuries He's a capable third-liner, but not as effective as Winnik, Moore, or Galiardi. One could argue that given his skillset, he's even less preferable than Desjardins or Handzus on the bottom lines. Talent wise, at least in my eyes, he is inferior to Sheppard; that is another road block in his way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
What I see is that Wingels is very capable of fulfilling a 4th line role, but being a very able and versatile top 6 substitute for short periods of time. I could see him as a regular 4th liner while being held in reserve.

Out of curiosity, have you heard of any interest in Stuart by the Sharks? Not interest from Stuart in returning of which we are all aware.
Im not sure what skillset you are referring to, but id be willing to guess he has some very good underlying numbers this season. 3rd liners are generally role players, and i dont see wingels fitting in there. but he could easily displace desjardins in the 4th line if he keeps his play at his current level.

this may sound like hyperbole, but desjardins had a very long time in the top 6 and for me did less than wingels has in february which was our worst run this season.

if there are stats to say otherwise then ill eat my humble pie, but i have faith in wingels and he needs to stay on this team because he is on track to play in the top 6

do0glas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 02:37 PM
  #65
OrrNumber4
Registered User
 
OrrNumber4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 7,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
What I see is that Wingels is very capable of fulfilling a 4th line role, but being a very able and versatile top 6 substitute for short periods of time. I could see him as a regular 4th liner while being held in reserve.

Out of curiosity, have you heard of any interest in Stuart by the Sharks? Not interest from Stuart in returning of which we are all aware.
DW was disappointed in Stuart in the '06 season, and DW tends not to pursue players who have already worn the Sharks uniform. That said, Stuart is pratically a different player today.

I have heard nothing specifically about DW desiring Stuart. I know that DW is tremendously confident in his prospect pool of defenseman. The intention being that Boyle-Murray-Burns-Vlasic are the core. Doherty, Demers or Braun would be taking Boyle's spot, Sefton, Petrecki or Wrenn would be taking Murray's spot. There are, of course, other prospect D-men who could surprise...

I imagine it would be like SJ re-signing Ian White. It would be for fewer dollars and a reduced role; #4/5 vs #2/3...

OrrNumber4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:08 PM
  #66
McLovin25
Eberle=Clutch
 
McLovin25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,214
vCash: 500
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($1.950m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / T.J. Galiardi ($0.850m)
Brad Winchester ($0.750m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.600m) / Torrey Mitchell ($0.750m)
/ James Sheppard ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brad Stuart ($3.000m) / Dan Boyle ($6.666m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Nick Petrecki ($1.125m) / Jason Demers ($1.250m)
Jim Vandermeer ($1.000m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.587m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,064,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $235,833

buy out handzus, as said above 880k for 2 years. With a slight cap increase, this team then becomes cap compliant.

Trade Wingels for a 2nd. hes not going to crack the top 9. He is better and younger then mitchell, but that also means he has more value. A 2nd could turn into a top 6 forward if we make a good selection. All i hear is we need to restock. This is how it begins.

Trade Murray for Prospect+2nd. Prospect should have top 6 potential, and the pick again should be used on a forward with top 6 potential.

If a team wont give us a 2nd for wingels, keep him then.

McLovin25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:10 PM
  #67
210
Registered User
 
210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Worcester, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,349
vCash: 500
I guess you're keeping Wingels

210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:12 PM
  #68
Led Zappa
Oy vey...
 
Led Zappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
I guess you're keeping Wingels
You're on a roll today aren't you

__________________

"This is not a nick or a scratch, this is an open wound" - Doug Wilson.
Led Zappa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:15 PM
  #69
Negatively Positive
Save us Tomas!
 
Negatively Positive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,809
vCash: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
I guess you're keeping Wingels
Are you just cracking jokes and laughing everything off to hide the pain and hurt(or murderous intent) inside?

Negatively Positive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:17 PM
  #70
210
Registered User
 
210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Worcester, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Fin Soup View Post
Are you just cracking jokes and laughing everything off to hide the pain and hurt(or murderous intent) inside?
No, I think it's funny anyone thinks Wingels would fetch a 2nd round pick...

210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:18 PM
  #71
210
Registered User
 
210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Worcester, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
You're on a roll today aren't you
Lots of funny posts on the forum today...

210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:21 PM
  #72
do0glas
Registered User
 
do0glas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou View Post
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($2.875m) / Martin Havlat ($5.000m)
Daniel Winnik ($1.950m) / Dominic Moore ($1.500m) / T.J. Galiardi ($0.850m)
Brad Winchester ($0.750m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.600m) / Torrey Mitchell ($0.750m)
/ James Sheppard ($0.725m)

DEFENSEMEN
Brad Stuart ($3.000m) / Dan Boyle ($6.666m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($5.760m)
Nick Petrecki ($1.125m) / Jason Demers ($1.250m)
Jim Vandermeer ($1.000m) / Justin Braun ($1.250m)

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.587m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,064,167; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $235,833

buy out handzus, as said above 880k for 2 years. With a slight cap increase, this team then becomes cap compliant.

Trade Wingels for a 2nd. hes not going to crack the top 9. He is better and younger then mitchell, but that also means he has more value. A 2nd could turn into a top 6 forward if we make a good selection. All i hear is we need to restock. This is how it begins.

Trade Murray for Prospect+2nd. Prospect should have top 6 potential, and the pick again should be used on a forward with top 6 potential.

If a team wont give us a 2nd for wingels, keep him then.
no one will give up a 2nd for wingels.

besides in our system he has PROVEN he has top 6 potential. hasnt looked out of place once. not sure why he is getting the shaft?

hey may not crack the top 9 but you cant look at our forward depth as the best 9 forwards get the top 9 spots. he will slot in just fine on the fourth line and do a much better job than whatever prospect you pick up. he will also slot in the top 6 and actively contribute on the ice, not just be a warm body. mitchell is UFA next year, and we dont have to re-sign him at all unless someone shows interest.

i highly doubt handzus gets bought out and:

Brad Winchester ($0.750m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.600m) / Torrey Mitchell ($0.750m)

that line will get smoked more often than not.

do0glas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:27 PM
  #73
Les Wynan*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,745
vCash: 500
Any idea how much Garrison would cost?

I'm really, really pissed that he scored so many goals this year. His underlying numbers were phenomenal last season and are great again (although he's playing easier minutes). He'd look awesome paired with Burns and I'd have no problem shipping out Murray for a pick. But my feeling is that stupid GMs will create a bidding war just because he put the puck in the net a few times this year.

Les Wynan* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:27 PM
  #74
Led Zappa
Oy vey...
 
Led Zappa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Country: Scotland
Posts: 32,448
vCash: 500
Wingels isn't going anywhere. As best I can tell he would be waiver exempt next year even if he played every game for the rest of the year and played in 28 Playoff games.

On top of that, DW is obviously high on this kid.

Led Zappa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 03:29 PM
  #75
Negatively Positive
Save us Tomas!
 
Negatively Positive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,809
vCash: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Wingels isn't going anywhere. As best I can tell he would be waiver exempt next year even if he played every game for the rest of the year and played in 28 Playoff games.

On top of that, DW is obviously high on this kid.
Most importantly, he's American. America, **** yeah! The other American kid Ferriero can leave though.

Negatively Positive is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.