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Old
02-29-2012, 11:19 AM
  #101
Agnostic
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Originally Posted by Karl Pilkington View Post
Bob did a great job building a solid organization of class. He got what he could and we made a run at it, Conference Finals, I'd say is our best run in 15 years.

His worst decision was handing over the team to Gauthier.. pompous **** thinks he's bigger than the team, the city, the league and the world. If you can't see that idea floating around his eyes you probably voted for Stephen Harper.
Karl, I kindly invite you to be a beta tester for a new iphone app I am developing.

True Doh! is an exciting innovation in navigation apps, and will allow, for the first time, Liberal voters to find their way to a polling station without a robo-call.

PM me if you'd like to be part of the program


As always,

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Old
02-29-2012, 11:22 AM
  #102
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Those posters are now defending Pierre Gauthier

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Old
02-29-2012, 11:29 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Those posters are now defending Pierre Gauthier
We need a catchy tagline phrase for the thread we'll be starting in 2 years.

"Men who Cared for Goats"

??

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Old
02-29-2012, 11:57 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Those posters are now defending Pierre Gauthier
This isn't about "defending" anybody. This is about finding the right narrative, the one that is the closest to the truth. In a way, the very fact that you see this as "defending" someone is evidence of what many have been saying all along: too many people here personify their disagreement with management, which only end up encouraging selection bias and making any kind of interesting discussion pointless.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:48 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
This isn't about "defending" anybody. This is about finding the right narrative, the one that is the closest to the truth. In a way, the very fact that you see this as "defending" someone is evidence of what many have been saying all along: too many people here personify their disagreement with management, which only end up encouraging selection bias and making any kind of interesting discussion pointless.
good god... stop making sense with trying to find rational explanations that try to weight both sides of every issue...

extremes, red herring and ad hominems, that's how we roll...

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Old
02-29-2012, 01:18 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Karl, I kindly invite you to be a beta tester for a new iphone app I am developing.

True Doh! is an exciting innovation in navigation apps, and will allow, for the first time, Liberal voters to find their way to a polling station without a robo-call.

PM me if you'd like to be part of the program


As always,

Bob Gainey was a MISERABLE FAILURE in the 3 most important areas of a General Manager.


1. Talent Aquisition (Scott Gomez)
2. Asset Management (How many players left for NOTHING back)
3. Vision (Nobody has a freakin clue what we are and what direction we are going)

If you can't see that you really don't have a clue about what a good GM looks like.


ie.... Detroit, Tampa Bay and Nashville are pretty good examples.

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:00 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Pilkington View Post
Bob did a great job building a solid organization of class. He got what he could and we made a run at it, Conference Finals, I'd say is our best run in 15 years.

His worst decision was handing over the team to Gauthier.. pompous **** thinks he's bigger than the team, the city, the league and the world. If you can't see that idea floating around his eyes you probably voted for Stephen Harper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Karl, I kindly invite you to be a beta tester for a new iphone app I am developing.

True Doh! is an exciting innovation in navigation apps, and will allow, for the first time, Liberal voters to find their way to a polling station without a robo-call.

PM me if you'd like to be part of the program


As always,
We can stop the car.... RIGHT NOW!!!

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Old
02-29-2012, 04:00 PM
  #108
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it's just the gomez albatross contract, he had a normal gomez season his first year with us where we overachieved, he's only scored over 15 goals 4 times in his career and over 30 once, he's an assist guy, 60 point player

his second season was a season where the whole team underacheived and we barely made the playoffs, he's declined since that season

never been a goal scorer, but has declined, and can never live up to that contract that the team is now stuck with

so there is the thing with gomez, being stuck with that 7.3m cap hit and a guy who can't put it together on a bad team

i think i just defended gomez a bit

he's definitely not been good though, not saying that, not scoring in 50 games i think?

gainey gave us the conference finals, and his team build didn't work out

but it's not like he gutted the team, gomez isn't ruining the damn team

there's a lot of bright prospects on this team and now it's in the position this year to draft high without a complete rebuild

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Old
02-29-2012, 05:02 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Bob Gainey was a MISERABLE FAILURE in the 3 most important areas of a General Manager.


1. Talent Aquisition (Scott Gomez)
2. Asset Management (How many players left for NOTHING back)
3. Vision (Nobody has a freakin clue what we are and what direction we are going)

If you can't see that you really don't have a clue about what a good GM looks like.


ie.... Detroit, Tampa Bay and Nashville are pretty good examples.
You are preaching to the choir. I've been pointing out these problems for 3 years. People are finally coming around.

Gainey's problem could be summarized in 3 points.

1) Terrible talent assessment
2) A misguided view of what post lockout hockey would look like and the player attributes that would be needed (more terrible talent assessment)
3) His leadership skills were developed in the '70's on a dynasty team, where a rigid-team-knows-best-tough-love-patriarchal management style prevailed, and he couldn't shake that out of his dealings with players.

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Old
02-29-2012, 05:13 PM
  #110
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The biggest mistake he made IMO (besides the Gomer trade) was trading Huet for nothing and leaving two kids to play goal in our cinderella year. Damaged Price's confidence for a long time and Halak was just a kid himself.

Dumb, dumb move.

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Old
02-29-2012, 05:18 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I just fear to see that he's going to be around again next year. Just like I fear to see Gauthier still with the job the upcoming year.
Pacioretty - Grigorenko - McKinnon


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Old
02-29-2012, 05:26 PM
  #112
Frank Drebin
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Andre Savard chose Mike "healthy scratch" Komisarek at #7 overall ahead of Mikko Koivu.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NHL_Entry_Draft

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Old
02-29-2012, 05:30 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Better question is, what type of character does one have to only come around the worse possible times to say "told you so" ? (this is twice in a short while; your appearance after Price's probably worse game of the season)


19 Years now. When is a good time? Once Gauthier and Gainey are gone for good? That would be a GREAT time.

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Old
02-29-2012, 05:34 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
This isn't about "defending" anybody. This is about finding the right narrative, the one that is the closest to the truth. In a way, the very fact that you see this as "defending" someone is evidence of what many have been saying all along: too many people here personify their disagreement with management, which only end up encouraging selection bias and making any kind of interesting discussion pointless.
Cheer us up then. Give us a highlight reel of Gauthier/Gainey decisions that led this franchise to a Stanley Cup. I will even lower the bar and settle for a Stanley Cup Finals.

And dress up the highlights to overlook our "last place in the East" that we are currently residing in.

If you can do that, I will create an "I Love Pierre Gauthier" thread for you.

Thanks.

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Old
02-29-2012, 05:43 PM
  #115
old scotia
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NO ONE can give credit to Gauthier or Gainey for the conference final play off run two years ago.
Credit all goes to Halak, this mess (circus) that we are in right now would have happened last year if Halak didn't stand on his head. Remember how badly each game we were outplayed.
Remember Crosby said after losing to MTL saying "it's hard to play against a team who's game plan is to get outshot every game."
I knew this mess was going to happen, look back at my posts.

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Old
02-29-2012, 05:48 PM
  #116
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Gainey = worst GM in team's history tied with peanut.

Peanut had worst results, yes, but Gainey had 10x the budget.

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Old
02-29-2012, 05:52 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Better question is, what type of character does one have to only come around the worse possible times to say "told you so" ? (this is twice in a short while; your appearance after Price's probably worse game of the season)
The two situations are completely different.

For one I've never made a thread about Price. And also, my stance on Price is not that he's a failure or that we made the wrong choice. It's merely that he's not having a good season like the rest of the team. And he isn't. He isn't having a good season. I'm sorry if you think otherwise but you're wrong. More importantly, Price's story hasn't been told yet. Let's see what the future is made of for him and let him be the subject of discussion on another day.

On the other hand, Gainey's story has been told. We now have a pretty good grasp of what his legacy will be to the habs. Also, I think I'm entitled to making this thread, for myself and precious few others who saw the summer of madness for what it was and were bashed for it for years. It's not a post made at precisely the good time to make Gainey look bad. It's not gonna get better.

EDIT:

One thing that hasn't been mentionned in this thread and which I forgot until a few seconds ago. Another of Gainey's worst moves :

Appointing Jacques Martin as head coach instead of Jacques Lemaire (whom had already accepted a 2 year deal). We'd probably have Boucher as head coach now if Gainey had hired Lemaire.


Last edited by Des Louise: 02-29-2012 at 06:07 PM.
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Old
02-29-2012, 08:22 PM
  #118
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When I heard Bob Gainey was named GM I was estatic,a man of respect who would bring back the pride and dedication to this organization. Slowly and increasingly over his tenure I was puzzled and frustrated by his actions and the type of team he built.
What hurts the most is the lack of regard,respect,and reputation which the whole organization is held by all levels in the hockey community.
Management is as much to blame as our rabid fans and media for the difficulty in attracting elite players.


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Old
02-29-2012, 09:36 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Cheer us up then. Give us a highlight reel of Gauthier/Gainey decisions that led this franchise to a Stanley Cup. I will even lower the bar and settle for a Stanley Cup Finals.

And dress up the highlights to overlook our "last place in the East" that we are currently residing in.

If you can do that, I will create an "I Love Pierre Gauthier" thread for you.

Thanks.
Funny how guys like you pile on the crap. Let's say both these guys did not one good thing for the franchise in their GM tenure. Can you tell me the last Habs GM that actually had a plan and turned the Habs into a contender? Are these guys just a product of the franchise they are a part of? Decades of losing tradition with the shine of this franchise long since tarnished. Who is this mythical knight in shining armour that will come in and turn the franchise around?

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02-29-2012, 09:41 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Cheer us up then. Give us a highlight reel of Gauthier/Gainey decisions that led this franchise to a Stanley Cup. I will even lower the bar and settle for a Stanley Cup Finals.

And dress up the highlights to overlook our "last place in the East" that we are currently residing in.

If you can do that, I will create an "I Love Pierre Gauthier" thread for you.

Thanks.
if there ever was a perfect example of proving someone's point, i think you just did it...

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Old
02-29-2012, 09:49 PM
  #121
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Funny how guys like you pile on the crap. Let's say both these guys did not one good thing for the franchise in their GM tenure. Can you tell me the last Habs GM that actually had a plan and turned the Habs into a contender? Are these guys just a product of the franchise they are a part of? Decades of losing tradition with the shine of this franchise long since tarnished. Who is this mythical knight in shining armour that will come in and turn the franchise around?
Past ineptitude does not excuse present ineptitude. Nor does it make present ineptitude acceptable.

Your post highlights the mentality of a lot of Montreal Canadiens fans who have never seen this franchise as a winner (by that, I mean a Cup winner, not a team that took the SC winner to 7 games).

"Well, we had really bad GM's, like Houle, so Gauthier isnt as bad"......completely ignoring the collapse of this team this year.

"Cunneyworth sucks. I wish we had Martin or Carbo back as coach."......completely ignoring the glaring lack of success that both gave us.


This team does not need a "mythical" knight in shining armor. You say that from a loser standpoint as mythical means non-existant.

This franchise started the downward spiral with Pierre Boivin as President and his complete abandonment of the Montreal Canadiens as a HOCKEY team. No, Pierre's priority was everything other than the product on the ice. We got a brand new arena, we got fantastic marketing, we got the glamour and the glitz of our 100 year anniversary......but we did not get a great hockey team.

The so called knight in shining armor is a complete cleanup of the mess that Boivin created. Everyone even remotely associated with that man needs to be dismissed.......from his son Patrick to Gauthier/Gainey, Carriere, Timmins (sorry, we are almost dead last with regard to our prospect rankings) Cunneyworth and all assistant coaches.

Then, and only then can we focus on winning the Cup again.

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02-29-2012, 09:50 PM
  #122
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if there ever was a perfect example of proving someone's point, i think you just did it...
How's your evening going? Mine is great. Take care.

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Old
02-29-2012, 09:54 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
How's your evening going? Mine is great. Take care.
morning actually, but it could be better. i was high from a pile of cold medicine last night and turned off my alarm instead of turning it on. lateness ensued...

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Old
02-29-2012, 09:56 PM
  #124
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morning actually, but it could be better. i was high from a pile of cold medicine last night and turned off my alarm instead of turning it on. lateness ensued...
Nyquil rocks.........if you have the next day off. Hope you feel better.

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Old
02-29-2012, 10:09 PM
  #125
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*snip*
yeah, cunney seriously sucks, martin was underwhelming - i always said he got better results out of this team when you look at the quality of players on the roster, but that can be debated although thanks cunney for proving my point; and carbo was weird. our last good coach was demers or if you want to go earlier than that, burns (gatineau ftw). choosing a coach is as much a product of the roster as a product of the man. who knows, maybe cunney would be perfect coaching a team like the bruins but it's certainly not working here :shrug:

most people wrote off hitchcock as basically being on the downside of his NHL career. he goes to the blues, a very big team that on paper seems to match his style of coaching, and turns them into a low-scoring contender with a strong defense - which i guess is better than a low-scoring, not contending team with a strong defense... and after hearing an interview with the guy, he really has pushed himself to be relevant in the new NHL in terms of using technology to help his job and so on. it was on hockeycentral if anyone can find it. really good interview

for GM. my pick has been timmins for a while now but other than that, maybe brisebois but i see some gainey connections so automatically meh... it's not an excuse but past GM's have been stuck with the 'make this team into a contender now' mentality. IF molson sees the light and allows the new GM the freedom of movement by no having to ice a contender right away, he may be able to put a longer term plan in place. but that's not up to the GM, that's up to the owner...

either way, having to chose a french-speaking head coach hampers us big time but you still have some decent candidates like groulx (gatineau ftw x 2) or roy (looool) although if i had a choice between roy GM or roy coach, i'd take coach, less chance to damage the roster long-term

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