HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

The 2003 Draft and the 04-05 Lockout

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-29-2012, 07:01 PM
  #1
parineum
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 556
vCash: 500
The 2003 Draft and the 04-05 Lockout

The 2003 draft class is widely regarded as the best in recent history. It's not really a revelation that the 04-05 lockout must have had some effect on the success of the players.

I don't know much about the hype of the players pre-draft and if the draft class was held in such high regard before many of the players broke out in the 05-06 and 06-07 season.

Was the 2003 draft class hyped as being better than most before the lockout or is that something that been discovered in hindsight?

With the amount of talent that was in the AHL during the lockout and the success of the players who were forced to play their in lieu of the NHL, is there an argument for an NHL/AHL agreement similar to the CHL/NHL agreement that would require some time spent in the AHL before a player was NHL eligible?

I've included some statistic of the forwards with 300+ points from the 2003 Draft.

Code:
Eric Staal
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	Carolina Hurricanes	NHL	81	11	20	31	40	-6
2004-05	Lowell Lock Monsters	AHL	77	26	51	77	88	37
2005-06	Carolina Hurricanes	NHL	82	45	55	100	81	-8

Nathan Horton
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	Florida Panthers		NHL	55	14	8	22	57	-5	
2004-05	San Antonio Rampage	AHL	21	5	4	9	21	
2005-06	Florida Panthers		NHL	71	28	19	47	89	8

Thomas Vanek
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	U. of Minnesota		WCHA38	26	25	51	72	 					
2004-05	Rochester Americans	AHL	74	42	26	68	62	
2005-06	Buffalo Sabres		NHL	81	25	23	48	72	-11	

Milan Michalek
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	San Jose Sharks		NHL	2	1	0	1	4	1	
2003-04	Cleveland Barons		AHL	7	2	2	4	4	1	
2005-06	San Jose Sharks		NHL	81	17	18	35	45	1	

Jeff Carter
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	Greyhounds			OHL	57	36	30	66	26	4
2004-05	Greyhounds			OHL	55	34	40	74	40	20
2005-06	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	81	23	19	42	40	10	

Dustin Brown
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	Los Angeles Kings		NHL	31	1	4	5	16	0	
2004-05	Manchester Monarchs	AHL	79	29	45	74	96	
2005-06	Los Angeles Kings		NHL	79	14	14	28	80	-10	

Zach Parise
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	U. of North Dakota	WCHA37	23	32	55	24	 					
2004-05	Albany River Rats		AHL	73	18	40	58	56	-11	
2005-06	New Jersey Devils		NHL	81	14	18	32	28	-1	

Ryan Getzlaf
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	Calgary Hitmen		WHL	49	28	47	75	97	32	
2004-05	Calgary Hitmen		WHL	51	29	25	54	102	22	
2005-06	Anaheim Mighty Ducks	NHL	57	14	25	39	22	6

Ryan Kesler
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	Manitoba Moose		AHL	33	3	8	11	29	-4	
2003-04	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	28	2	3	5	16	-2	
2004-05	Manitoba Moose		AHL	78	30	28	58	105	22	
2005-06	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	82	10	13	23	79	1	

Mike Richards
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	Kitchener Rangers		OHL	58	36	53	89	82	21	
2004-05	Kitchener Rangers		OHL	43	22	36	58	75	9	
2005-06	Philadelphia Flyers	NHL	79	11	23	34	65	6	

Corey Perry
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	London Knights		OHL	66	40	73	113	98	38	
2004-05	London Knights		OHL	60	47	83	130	117	66	
2005-06	Anaheim Mighty Ducks	NHL	56	13	12	25	50	1	
2005-06	Portland Pirates		AHL	19	16	18	34	32	7	

Loui Eriksson
Season	Team	Lge				GP	G	A	Pts	PIM	+/-
2003-04	Vastra Frolunda HC	SEL	46	8	5	13	4	0	
2004-05	Vastra Frolunda HC	SEL	39	5	9	14	4	0					
2005-06	Iowa Stars			AHL	78	31	29	60	27	20

parineum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 07:05 PM
  #2
Mr Forever
The Oilers :(
 
Mr Forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: COLLEGE
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,181
vCash: 500
Personally, I think it would be great for the Oilers if there was a lockout this year.

They could really stack their AHL team and we'd be in the lottery for a high pick without having to watch an awful season!!

Mr Forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 07:43 PM
  #3
McLovin25
Eberle=Clutch
 
McLovin25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,151
vCash: 500
it was considered the best draft since the 80s...

McLovin25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 07:49 PM
  #4
The Bored Man
#94
 
The Bored Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,365
vCash: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
Personally, I think it would be great for the Oilers if there was a lockout this year.

They could really stack their AHL team and we'd be in the lottery for a high pick without having to watch an awful season!!
No hockey fan should ever want a lockout.

The Bored Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 08:11 PM
  #5
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 107,620
vCash: 6115
The 2003 draft was definitely hyped up, starting no later than the previous draft. Rightfully so.

Case in point: the Flyers traded Daymond Langkow for 1st and 2nd round picks from Phoenix, but the Flyers had options attached to it. It either could have been a 1st round pick in 2002, and 2nd in 2003, or 1st in 2003 and 2nd in 2002. They chose the latter, with fruitful results.

I think drafted players who had NHL contracts were free to play in the AHL. Not sure how many there were, but Patrice Bergeron was the first player to ever play for the Canadian World Junior team AFTER having played his NHL rookie season, and played in the AHL that year as a 19-year old.


Last edited by GKJ: 02-29-2012 at 08:16 PM.
GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 08:13 PM
  #6
DuckJet
Ducks are math=Bad
 
DuckJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Funkytown
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 33,117
vCash: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
No hockey fan should ever want a lockout.
This! Holy hell! I can't believe I just read that. And I thought a "should we tank" Leafs thread resulting in an almost 70% yes was bad.

DuckJet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 08:22 PM
  #7
Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
 
Luigi Lemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 12,788
vCash: 500
Yes, it was hyped as one of the deepest drafts ever. The 04/05 lockout definitely helped everyone in that class i think. A full year of development with no being rushed into the nhl and no pressure, not to mention higher quality leagues everywhere due to no nhl hockey. Draftees from 2001-04 all benefited from the lockout. Guys like Staal and Spezza went into the lockout looking like prospects and came out looking like superstars.

Luigi Lemieux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 08:32 PM
  #8
The K Man
Registered User
 
The K Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
This! Holy hell! I can't believe I just read that. And I thought a "should we tank" Leafs thread resulting in an almost 70% yes was bad.
Just curious, how come you like to bring up the Leafs so much?

The K Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 08:35 PM
  #9
archangel archangel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,763
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
No hockey fan should ever want a lockout.
I regret to inform you Donald Fehr will be causing a major problems for the NHL and the nhl fans--

archangel archangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-29-2012, 08:43 PM
  #10
RA9
Registered User
 
RA9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,141
vCash: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredMan View Post
No hockey fan should ever want a lockout.
I think he meant that it would be good FOR the oilers, not wanting one.

RA9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 01:19 AM
  #11
ES
Registered User
 
ES's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,615
vCash: 500
If there would be lockout and cancelled season, and the draft lottery would be like 2005, Oilers would actually gets screwed as they have got two #1 picks.

- One ball if team had played in the playoffs at least twice in last three years
- Two balls if team had played in the playoffs once in last three years
- Three balls if team had not played in the playoffs in last three years
- Additionally, team would lose one ball for each #1 pick they have had in past four years (Thrashers lost one for 2001, Panthers lost one each for 2002 and 2003 (although they traded both) and Capitals lost one for 2004). However, the team was still having a minimum of one ball (so a three-season period with two playoff berths and one awful season with #1 pick would have still had one ball)

Code:
PIT	3
ANA	2
CAR	2
MIN	2
MTL	1
CBJ	3
CHI	2
ATL*	2
OTT	1
VAN	1
LA	2
SJ*	1
BUF	3
WSH	1
NYI	1
NYR*	3
PHX	2
NSH	2
DET	1
PHI*	1
TOR	1
BOS	1
NJ	1
STL	1
EDM	2
CGY	2
COL*	1
DAL	1
FLA*	1
TB	1
This was the draft order after lottery in 2005 and balls each team had. * means that pick was traded - Atlanta traded down first to SJ and then to NYR picks, Flyers and Panthers swapped their ones and Colorado traded their one to Washington. Obviously other picks were involved in the trades.

ES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 01:26 AM
  #12
Sticks and Pucks
Registered User
 
Sticks and Pucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,280
vCash: 500
Back then it was hyped as the best draft since 1993. Looking back today, this draft is much better than 1993. Probably the only draft better than 2003 would be 1979 (Messier, Bourque, Gartner, Goulet...). Guys like Staal, Brown, Getzlaf, Phaneuf and Suter were already hyped back then. However, guys like Perry, Weber, Carter, Kesler and Bergeron were pleasant surprises. Looking back, although this draft was heavily hyped, it still ended up being better than expected.

Sticks and Pucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 03:13 AM
  #13
DuckJet
Ducks are math=Bad
 
DuckJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Funkytown
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 33,117
vCash: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by The K Man View Post
Just curious, how come you like to bring up the Leafs so much?
The recent sky is falling mentality. I mostly mention things as they become prevalent

Erik Karlsson
Columbus ASG
Ryan Kesler
Toronto sky is falling
Crosby
Ovechkin
Perry vs Sedin.

etc...

DuckJet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 04:37 AM
  #14
boredmale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
Personally, I think it would be great for the Oilers if there was a lockout this year.

They could really stack their AHL team and we'd be in the lottery for a high pick without having to watch an awful season!!
Actually if they go by the rules they used last time, the Oilers would only get 1 out of 3 balls in the lottery(basically they took 1 ball away anytime you make the playoffs in the previous 3 seasons and 1 if you picked 1st overall in the previous 5 years up to 2 balls getting taken away). The Oilers would basically have the same chance of picking first as Detroit

boredmale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 07:07 AM
  #15
tony d
The man
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,487
vCash: 500
I can remember it being hyped as a really strong draft even beforehand. The hypers where right. To bad that the Sens wasted their 1st rounder on Patrick Eaves when Loui Eriksson went 4 spots later to Dallas.

__________________
People got to learn how to use punctuation. On our radio ads the other day a black man's wallet was reported as missing. Instead of a man's wallet black in colour missing a black man's wallet is missing.
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 08:51 AM
  #16
nuclear reactor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 506
vCash: 500
Do the Penguins automatically get the first overall again if there is another lockout?

nuclear reactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 09:31 AM
  #17
Hero
Raptors 13/14
 
Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,542
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear reactor View Post
Do the Penguins automatically get the first overall again if there is another lockout?
If bettman is still commish, yes.

Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 09:39 AM
  #18
deckercky
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,073
vCash: 500
I think the OP's idea is a great one, and I'd go further teams. Drafted players have to play out their junior eligibility, then spend a year in the AHL before joining the NHL. Force players to spend some development time in the minors before joining the NHL.

deckercky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 09:39 AM
  #19
Ogrezilla
Arrogant Yinzer
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 29,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear reactor View Post
Do the Penguins automatically get the first overall again if there is another lockout?
we damn well better.

Ogrezilla is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 09:49 AM
  #20
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
 
SmellOfVictory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4,344
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Actually if they go by the rules they used last time, the Oilers would only get 1 out of 3 balls in the lottery(basically they took 1 ball away anytime you make the playoffs in the previous 3 seasons and 1 if you picked 1st overall in the previous 5 years up to 2 balls getting taken away). The Oilers would basically have the same chance of picking first as Detroit
It'd be awesome for Calgary, though! Ha.

SmellOfVictory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 06:44 PM
  #21
Beezeral
Registered User
 
Beezeral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 1,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
Personally, I think it would be great for the Oilers if there was a lockout this year.

They could really stack their AHL team and we'd be in the lottery for a high pick without having to watch an awful season!!
If the Draft rules were the same as the last lockout the oilers would get screwed like the panthers were last lockout.

Panthers were a terrible team that had the least number of lotto balls because of having one the lottery twice over the last few seasons.

Beezeral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 07:02 PM
  #22
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
I think the OP's idea is a great one, and I'd go further teams. Drafted players have to play out their junior eligibility, then spend a year in the AHL before joining the NHL. Force players to spend some development time in the minors before joining the NHL.
So, you would make a player like Landeskog (or Crosby) delay the start of their career for two years? Laughable IMO.

Beukeboom Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 08:09 PM
  #23
SomeDude
Registered User
 
SomeDude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Pittsburghish
Posts: 5,684
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear reactor View Post
Do the Penguins automatically get the first overall again if there is another lockout?
The NHL won't sign any proposed CBA that doesn't guarantee the Pens the 1st overall.

SomeDude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 08:36 PM
  #24
Gary Roberts
Bringer of rain
 
Gary Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear reactor View Post
Do the Penguins automatically get the first overall again if there is another lockout?
I really hope so

They kind of broke their last one

Gary Roberts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-01-2012, 08:40 PM
  #25
Ishdul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Lithuania
Posts: 2,496
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by parineum View Post
The 2003 draft class is widely regarded as the best in recent history. It's not really a revelation that the 04-05 lockout must have had some effect on the success of the players.
It is a wild, baseless assumption, however. Neither the 2002 or 2004 drafts benefitted at all from the lockout. Many of the successful players from 2003 would have been very unlikely to play in the NHL then (such as Perry, Getzlaf, Eriksson, Suter and likely many more), and the general thought that prospects who don't pan out were all rushed is completely ridiculous and is more a reaction to the types of teams who bring up players early (bad teams) and the type of teams who don't (Detroit) without any regard for why they do that and with which prospects. People talk about the players who would have been better if they weren't rushed (with some wild assumptions thrown in for many of those players) and yet there is little discussion about players who were brought along too late or players who benefited from playing in the NHL right away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parineum View Post
Was the 2003 draft class hyped as being better than most before the lockout or is that something that been discovered in hindsight?
It was seen as an absurdly deep draft well before it happened.

Ishdul is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:25 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.