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Old
02-28-2012, 07:06 PM
  #976
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At this point I am fully behind the Skins swapping 1sts this year and giving the Rams another 1st, and a 2nd and 3rd this year for Griffin. The Skins are long overdue for a franchise QB. Might as well make a move for Griffin. The kid looks like the real deal.

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02-28-2012, 08:37 PM
  #977
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Here's what I know:

1. If the Skins sign Manning, they'll get ripped natioanlly for going after a veteran again
2. If they sign Flynn, they'll get ripped for spending a ton of money on an unproven player
3. If they trade a boatload of draft picks for RGIII, they'll get ripped for once again sacrificing draft picks and not building depth through the draft

I switch every 12 hours or so, but for the moment, I'm back on Option #1.

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02-28-2012, 09:04 PM
  #978
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I am not down with going 1, 2, 1 +. Too much.

I may change my mind later though.

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02-28-2012, 09:52 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by stanleycaps98 View Post
I am not down with going 1, 2, 1 +. Too much.

I may change my mind later though.
That's the cost to move up and to be honest, isn't that bad.

Shanny does a lot of his damage in the mid rounds. Giving up 1, 1, 3, and 5 When you've got a 2 to move back with still as well as 2 4's to play with is a big deal to me.

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02-28-2012, 10:57 PM
  #980
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I'm not a Redskins fan, but I don't get how the #1 wish of everyone who is isn't to sign Peyton Manning. He has already said he would sign a performance-based bonus-heavy contract, so it wouldn't turn out like all the other over-the-hill veteran signings of Washington's past, at least in the money aspect. If he's terrible, it would cost team zero draft picks and very little money, and they'll probably be in great position to go after Barkley in next year's draft. If he goes back to being Peyton of old, then the Redskins have themselves a hell of a quarterback for 3+ years, once again costing zero draft picks. Well worth the risk to see if he's got anything left, considering the worst case scenario is delaying finding a legitimate quarterback for another year.

That is so much more of an attractive option than spending 3+ high draft picks for a gamble in RG3, spending a ton of money for an unproven Flynn, or reaching by a least a half a round for Tannehill.

Peyton or bust this offseason is what I'd be saying.

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02-28-2012, 11:11 PM
  #981
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I don't know why everyone wants to get Barkley. Griffin > Barkley.

Barkley is on a stacked USC team and is still not that amazing. You also have to think that if Peyton shows up here he makes this team into a 8 or 9 win team. We have more talent than the Colts and he carried to them to 10+ win seasons constantly.

Will have to trade up to get our QB eventually, why not do it now? This team needs to gamble just as the Caps do.

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Old
02-28-2012, 11:15 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Brian23 View Post
I don't know why everyone wants to get Barkley. Griffin > Barkley.

Barkley is on a stacked USC team and is still not that amazing. You also have to think that if Peyton shows up here he makes this team into a 8 or 9 win team. We have more talent than the Colts and he carried to them to 10+ win seasons constantly.

Will have to trade up to get our QB eventually, why not do it now? This team needs to gamble just as the Caps do.
That is a ridiculous assumption. How many current NFL starters are on teams that traded up to get them?

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02-28-2012, 11:23 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by QuadrupleDeke View Post
That is a ridiculous assumption. How many current NFL starters are on teams that traded up to get them?
This is from 2010.

Quote:
First Round Picks (18)
Sam Bradford, Rams (1st overall, 2010)
Matt Stafford, Lions (1st overall, 2009)
Mark Sanchez, Jets (5th overall, 2009)
Josh Freeman, Bucs (17th overall, 2009)
Matt Ryan, Falcons (3rd overall, 2008)
Joe Flacco, Ravens (18th overall, 2008)
Vince Young, Titans (3rd overall, 2006)
Jay Cutler, Bears (11th overall, 2006)
Alex Smith, 49ers (1st overall, 2005)
Aaron Rodgers, Packers (24th overall, 2005)
Jason Campbell, Raiders (25th overall, 2005)
Eli Manning, Giants (1st overall, 2004)
Philip Rivers, Chargers (4th overall, 2004)
Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers (11th overall, 2004)

Carson Palmer, Bengals (1st overall, 2003)
Michael Vick, Eagles (1st overall, 2001)
Donovan McNabb, Redskins (3rd overall, 1999)
Peyton Manning, Colts (1st overall, 1998)

Second Round (4)
Jimmy Clausen, Panthers (48th overall, 2010)
Chad Henne, Dolphins (57th overall, 2008)
Drew Brees, Saints (32nd overall, 2001)
Brett Favre, Vikings (33rd overall, 1991)

Third Round (2)
Colt McCoy, Browns (85th overall, 2010)
Matt Schaub, Texans (90th overall, 2004)

Fourth Round (2)
Kyle Orton, Broncos (106th overall, 2005)
David Garrard, Jaguars (108th overall, 2002)

Sixth Round (3)
Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks (187th overall, 1998)
Tom Brady, Patriots (199th overall, 2000)
Derek Anderson, Cardinals (213th overall, 2005)

Seventh Round (2)
Matt Cassel, Chiefs (230th overall, 2005)
Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bills (250th overall, 2005)

Undrafted (1)
Tony Romo, Cowboys (2003)

Reality is, unless you've got someone to rely on, you need a surefire Stud at the QB slot. You don't have 04 Drafts often and nor can you count on the UDFA's and late rounders to turn into All Pros.

In this day and age you need to go get your QB and he has to be great if you plan to compete. The fact that we have a chance to go get a guy at 2 doesn't come around often and we have to take that chance while we have it as the Redskins are gonna get back to the point where they flounder in mediocrity and aren't bad enough to get their QB soon.

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Old
02-28-2012, 11:57 PM
  #984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian23 View Post
This is from 2010.

Quote:
First Round Picks (18)
Sam Bradford, Rams (1st overall, 2010)
Matt Stafford, Lions (1st overall, 2009)
Mark Sanchez, Jets (5th overall, 2009)
Josh Freeman, Bucs (17th overall, 2009)
Matt Ryan, Falcons (3rd overall, 2008)
Joe Flacco, Ravens (18th overall, 2008)
Vince Young, Titans (3rd overall, 2006)
Jay Cutler, Bears (11th overall, 2006)
Alex Smith, 49ers (1st overall, 2005)
Aaron Rodgers, Packers (24th overall, 2005)
Jason Campbell, Raiders (25th overall, 2005)
Eli Manning, Giants (1st overall, 2004)
Philip Rivers, Chargers (4th overall, 2004)
Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers (11th overall, 2004)
Carson Palmer, Bengals (1st overall, 2003)
Michael Vick, Eagles (1st overall, 2001)
Donovan McNabb, Redskins (3rd overall, 1999)
Peyton Manning, Colts (1st overall, 1998)

Second Round (4)
Jimmy Clausen, Panthers (48th overall, 2010)
Chad Henne, Dolphins (57th overall, 2008)
Drew Brees, Saints (32nd overall, 2001)
Brett Favre, Vikings (33rd overall, 1991)

Third Round (2)
Colt McCoy, Browns (85th overall, 2010)
Matt Schaub, Texans (90th overall, 2004)

Fourth Round (2)
Kyle Orton, Broncos (106th overall, 2005)
David Garrard, Jaguars (108th overall, 2002)

Sixth Round (3)
Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks (187th overall, 1998)
Tom Brady, Patriots (199th overall, 2000)
Derek Anderson, Cardinals (213th overall, 2005)

Seventh Round (2)
Matt Cassel, Chiefs (230th overall, 2005)
Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bills (250th overall, 2005)

Undrafted (1)
Tony Romo, Cowboys (2003)

Reality is, unless you've got someone to rely on, you need a surefire Stud at the QB slot. You don't have 04 Drafts often and nor can you count on the UDFA's and late rounders to turn into All Pros.

In this day and age you need to go get your QB and he has to be great if you plan to compete. The fact that we have a chance to go get a guy at 2 doesn't come around often and we have to take that chance while we have it as the Redskins are gonna get back to the point where they flounder in mediocrity and aren't bad enough to get their QB soon.
I have no idea what you are bolding in that list, because it definitely isn't quarterbacks on teams that traded up to draft them...

Matthew Stafford was not traded up for
Eli Manning was only traded up for because he refused to play for San Diego
Philip Rivers was traded DOWN for
Ben Roethlisberger was not traded up for
Peyton Manning was not traded up for
Drew Brees was a free agent signing by the Saints
Matt Schaub was drafted in the 3rd round, so you can hardly call that trading up to draft him
Tom Brady was not traded up for
Tony Romo wasn't even drafted

So yeah... none of those cases apply at all.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:13 AM
  #985
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RG3, RG3i, RG3........

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Old
02-29-2012, 11:26 AM
  #986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleDeke View Post
I have no idea what you are bolding in that list, because it definitely isn't quarterbacks on teams that traded up to draft them...

Matthew Stafford was not traded up for
Eli Manning was only traded up for because he refused to play for San Diego
Philip Rivers was traded DOWN for
Ben Roethlisberger was not traded up for
Peyton Manning was not traded up for
Drew Brees was a free agent signing by the Saints
Matt Schaub was drafted in the 3rd round, so you can hardly call that trading up to draft him
Tom Brady was not traded up for
Tony Romo wasn't even drafted

So yeah... none of those cases apply at all.
Bolding my assumption for Franchise QB's. Kinda torn on Tony Romo but I think to an extent, he fits the mold.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:19 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Brian23 View Post
Bolding my assumption for Franchise QB's. Kinda torn on Tony Romo but I think to an extent, he fits the mold.
Aaron Rodgers isn't a francise quarterback but Tony Romo is?

Also, what does a list of francise quarterbacks, which by your standards seem to be pretty dispersed through many rounds of the draft, have anything to do with whether the Redskins should mortgage their future to take a chance at RG3 or risk absolutely nothing to take a chance on Peyton Manning?

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:27 PM
  #988
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Bolding my assumption for Franchise QB's. Kinda torn on Tony Romo but I think to an extent, he fits the mold.
Friend, I think you've lost track of your own conversation.

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Old
02-29-2012, 12:52 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Friend, I think you've lost track of your own conversation.
Well, I did miss Aaron Rodgers...

Anyway. No, my point was Franchise QB's are hard to come by, you can't bet on later round guys. The best of the best go in the Top 4 more often than not and we aren't there. Again, there's a good chance with the talent being brought in that we won't be up there again. Right now is probably gonna be the cheapest and easiest time for us to go get a QB.

Let alone the fact that RGIII is basically a perfect Shanahan QB.

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02-29-2012, 12:54 PM
  #990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleDeke View Post
Aaron Rodgers isn't a francise quarterback but Tony Romo is?

Also, what does a list of francise quarterbacks, which by your standards seem to be pretty dispersed through many rounds of the draft, have anything to do with whether the Redskins should mortgage their future to take a chance at RG3 or risk absolutely nothing to take a chance on Peyton Manning?
I did miss on him for some reason...

But actually look at that list. Even Above Average QB's are high first round draft picks. In this day and age you -need- a great QB to get by. The days of Defenses winning championships every year is long gone. Now a days the guy throwing the rock is far more important than anything else and you have to pay a premium, both in cash and in draft picks, to get them more often than not.

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02-29-2012, 01:14 PM
  #991
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At this point I am fully behind the Skins swapping 1sts this year and giving the Rams another 1st, and a 2nd and 3rd this year for Griffin. The Skins are long overdue for a franchise QB. Might as well make a move for Griffin. The kid looks like the real deal.
Yeah, I don't see why this is hard. You lose one 1st round pick, one 2nd round pick, and a couple of middle picks.

The middle picks are nothing - you can do just as well with signing undrafted guys. The 1st and 2nd hurt, but it's for a position that has sucked for the franchise for nearly 20 years now, and it's to get a guy that has all the tools, and seems to be a great guy to boot.

But we better figure out how to protect him.

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02-29-2012, 01:18 PM
  #992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleDeke View Post
I have no idea what you are bolding in that list, because it definitely isn't quarterbacks on teams that traded up to draft them...

Matthew Stafford was not traded up for
Eli Manning was only traded up for because he refused to play for San Diego
Philip Rivers was traded DOWN for
Ben Roethlisberger was not traded up for
Peyton Manning was not traded up for
Drew Brees was a free agent signing by the Saints
Matt Schaub was drafted in the 3rd round, so you can hardly call that trading up to draft him
Tom Brady was not traded up for
Tony Romo wasn't even drafted

So yeah... none of those cases apply at all.
Matt Schaub wasn't traded up for by the team that starts him. Schaub was drafted by Atlanta, backed up Vick a few years before being traded to houston.

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02-29-2012, 02:21 PM
  #993
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Come home RG3..glory awaits you in DC.

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02-29-2012, 02:32 PM
  #994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian23 View Post
I did miss on him for some reason...

But actually look at that list. Even Above Average QB's are high first round draft picks. In this day and age you -need- a great QB to get by. The days of Defenses winning championships every year is long gone. Now a days the guy throwing the rock is far more important than anything else and you have to pay a premium, both in cash and in draft picks, to get them more often than not.
Except this year, when Peyton Manning is available for no draft picks and very little guaranteed cash.

Also, your list in no way supports your claim that QBs cost a premium. Brees was a free agent. Vick was a free agent. Schaub was traded for by the Texans for 2 second round picks. Rodgers, Freeman, and Flacco were all bottom half of the first round picks. Brady was a sixth rounder. Romo was undrafted.

Smart asset management is the way to win championships. How many times have the Patriots or Packers traded two firsts and a second round draft pick for one player?

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02-29-2012, 02:58 PM
  #995
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If its true the skins offered this years first and next years as a starting point(which i doubt), that would be incredibly stupid. The price would only increase.

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02-29-2012, 03:41 PM
  #996
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I have a terrible feeling that no matter what the Skins do, it will be the wrong thing.

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02-29-2012, 08:21 PM
  #997
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Quote:
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If its true the skins offered this years first and next years as a starting point(which i doubt), that would be incredibly stupid. The price would only increase.
Maybe thats the point. By the Skins opening the price for trading up prior to the opening of FA they put pressure on Cleveland, Miami, and any other team wanting to trade up with St. Louis to show their hand prior to FA and well before the draft. That gives the Skins the option to bow out of the RG3 derby if the price to trade up is more than they offered and focus on FA QB's and/or secondary QB draft prospects like Tannehill and Weeden. The Skins also put pressure on St. Louis to make a deal before they might want to.

Regardless, in a high stakes situation like this I would rather the Skins set the market instead of reacting to another teams offer and get this ball rolling prior to FA. Gives the Skins more options instead of reacting and reducing said options.

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02-29-2012, 09:26 PM
  #998
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Maybe thats the point. By the Skins opening the price for trading up prior to the opening of FA they put pressure on Cleveland, Miami, and any other team wanting to trade up with St. Louis to show their hand prior to FA and well before the draft. That gives the Skins the option to bow out of the RG3 derby if the price to trade up is more than they offered and focus on FA QB's and/or secondary QB draft prospects like Tannehill and Weeden. The Skins also put pressure on St. Louis to make a deal before they might want to.

Regardless, in a high stakes situation like this I would rather the Skins set the market instead of reacting to another teams offer and get this ball rolling prior to FA. Gives the Skins more options instead of reacting and reducing said options.
It doesn't put more pressure on other teams, especially Cleveland who is in the best position for RGIII. If the Skins are trying to create a false perception and cause someone else to move up and overpay in order for one of their other guys(Claiborne, Blackmon, etc.) to fall, I'd understand.

Hell they could be doing this to show the fans they're doing whatever they can for RGIII, in case it doesn't work. Regardless, I have a hard time believing the reports that they've offered a substantial futures package this early.

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02-29-2012, 09:39 PM
  #999
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I'm fine with mortgaging the immediate future for RG3. But if it provokes a bidding war against Cleveland and forcing the price up so they get him thats fine as there is always next year.

And keeping the picks and either keeping the 6th pick (OT, CB, or even Blackmon if they pick up a decent QB in FA or otherwise) or again trading down in the 1st to gather more picks is something I wouldn't have a problem with. Their last draft has given me hope with their decent finds.

Thread reboot.

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