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Why do you want to trade Derek Roy?

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Old
02-29-2012, 10:35 AM
  #51
ADoubleD
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To change up the core, and move in a different direction. I could live with him staying though. Personally I want Stafford traded first. And I'm just curious but with the picks and trade pieces we have like Roy and Stafford who do people on here think they could realistically target in a trade? In terms of a top center I mean because as of now I just can't think of many guys who would be available. That however might change depending on how teams do in the playoffs. Maybe a team who underperforms would be looking to shakeup their roster.


Last edited by ADoubleD: 02-29-2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Old
02-29-2012, 11:12 AM
  #52
brian_griffin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximrules View Post
we need to use him to trade for a big center. simple as that. this team will not win with Roy, Ennis, and Hodgson up the middle. No way in hell, you have to be big up the middle.
**Sigh** I've heard that one too often on weekend date nights...

=========
re: Roy.
If BUF talent can be improved by moving him, then do so. But I think that makes sense only if he's part of a center swap deal.
If he's not moved, well, you still have good $4M last year of contract for a 50-70+ pt guy, depending on whether the '12-'13 season is a repeat of this year's dud, or a return to his near-ppg career form.

Even if he is a "bad letter-wearer", "locker room cancer", "rotten core", etc., the talent and leadership on BUF should be able to rise above that. I refuse to believe Roy-on-the-roster (both on & off ice) is the ONLY obstacle BUF has to winning the Cup, and if he were gone, the clouds would part and Lord Stanley would shine down from above and annoint BUF as Cup favorites.

Perhaps not a great analogy, but I was a collegiate athlete on a very successful team, for multiple years (before, during, and after my tenure there). We ALWAYS had at least one and usually a couple very highly talented ********** on the team, and some of them were "letter-wearers". We still won, both because of, and in spite of, them. If the overall program & squad are good enough, it won't be fully tainted by one guy.

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Old
02-29-2012, 11:40 AM
  #53
boots electric
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
I hate the type of player he is.
Yes he's skilled but he's also undersized, one-dimensional, selfish, and a diver.
This is a lot of it.

Also, I think the writing is on the wall in terms of Roy's future here after the Hodgson trade. You don't go out and acquire Cody Hodgson to give the team a one-two punch at center alongside Derek Roy, you acquire him to replace Derek Roy.

Skilled? Check
Undersized? Not really. He's average.
One-Dimensional? It doesn't look like it, but that remains to be seen.
Selfish? No. From all accounts he's got great character and is a great teammate.

Like I said, the writing is on the wall -- he's being groomed to be the future Derek Roy minus all the other crap. He's Derek Roy+

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02-29-2012, 11:49 AM
  #54
Jame
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it was a lonely road back in 2008....
i carried this one by myself for so long....

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02-29-2012, 01:46 PM
  #55
CarlWinslow
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I just don't think he is a good compliment to the players that I consider to be key pieces moving forward. Vanek and Pominville need a center who can skate, cycle and retrieve/forecheck as well as playmake. Roy is not good at these things.

He's also too small to be effective with an Ennis or Gerbe, not great with Stafford or Leino for the same reasons as above etc.

And to top it off, he isn't elite enough to make up for the short comings with pure skill.

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02-29-2012, 01:55 PM
  #56
ZZamboni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it was a lonely road back in 2008....
i carried this one by myself for so long....
I love how you think, you REALLY truly think you were the one out of thousands of Sabres fans that didn't like Roy for years. The dislike wasn't yours alone Jame. You just may have had the biggest mouth about the dislike.

Now more people are just becoming more vocal about Roy than ever before. Roy would be nice to move, but only if we can get a center roughly as good or better (production wise) as him.

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02-29-2012, 02:06 PM
  #57
slip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
it was a lonely road back in 2008....
i carried this one by myself for so long....
But trading him in 2008 made no sense, given our dearth of centers, his manageable cap hit, and the need for those teams to make the playoffs for financial reasons. It's now 4 years later, age/injury seems to have slowed him down, there's a new core emerging, playoffs are not a mandate, etc. Much more incentive to trade him today.

Not the same situation at all.

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:19 PM
  #58
jBuds
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Just curious why people would jettison Vanek and Roy for Kopitar and Brown, under the assumption that it makes us a winner. What have the latter two won? And they were key pieces of their team for just as long, if not longer, than Vanek and Roy.

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02-29-2012, 02:26 PM
  #59
slip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Just curious why people would jettison Vanek and Roy for Kopitar and Brown, under the assumption that it makes us a winner. What have the latter two won? And they were key pieces of their team for just as long, if not longer, than Vanek and Roy.
Simple math:

Kopitar > Vanek

Brown > Roy

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02-29-2012, 02:27 PM
  #60
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
I love how you think, you REALLY truly think you were the one out of thousands of Sabres fans that didn't like Roy for years. The dislike wasn't yours alone Jame. You just may have had the biggest mouth about the dislike.

Now more people are just becoming more vocal about Roy than ever before. Roy would be nice to move, but only if we can get a center roughly as good or better (production wise) as him.
yes...i was in a very small minority of fans that recognized his deep flaws as a player, and the negative impact of his character from the beginning.

Roy/Ruff have been the problem all along... there was a snowball at the top of the mountain, and most had to wait until it rolled all the way down the mountain, forming a massive snow boulder.

some of us saw the snowball... now most everyone can see the boulder.

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02-29-2012, 02:30 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slip View Post
Simple math:

Kopitar > Vanek

Brown > Roy
Why are you comparing wing to center and vice versa?

How about

Roy = Kopitar
Brown < Vanek


????

I LOVE Kopitar. I played against Brown when he was in HS. They're both great, and would be good additions. But it's sad to see how lowballed our own guys get.

If nothing else, it'd be a shakeup for both teams. But again...why Kopitar and Brown swapped for TV/Roy?

DB and Kopy haven't won a thing, and have been given the load just the same as our two, no?

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:35 PM
  #62
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Why are you comparing wing to center and vice versa?

How about

Roy = Kopitar
Brown < Vanek


????

I LOVE Kopitar. I played against Brown when he was in HS. They're both great, and would be good additions. But it's sad to see how lowballed our own guys get.

If nothing else, it'd be a shakeup for both teams. But again...why Kopitar and Brown swapped for TV/Roy?

DB and Kopy haven't won a thing, and have been given the load just the same as our two, no?

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:40 PM
  #63
PanicItsVanek26
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He's a multimillionaire in his 20's that enjoys the nightlife so he must be a team cancer.

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Old
02-29-2012, 02:41 PM
  #64
Jame
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I think Hodgson will replace a lot of Vanek's goal production.
Vanek 22 yrs old = .59 pt per game / .30 goals per game
Hodgson 22 yrs = .52 pt per game / .25 goals per game

both were in similar situations (Not in top 6), but Vanek played with far better talent... in a more wide open league.

Make no mistake... Hodgson is a goal scorer

With that in mind... Id gladly swap Roy/Vanek for Kopitar/Brown... it simple makes for a much better top 6...

Ennis-Kopitar-Pominville
Leino-Hodgson-Brown

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02-29-2012, 02:45 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post

Since Roy was hurt last year, averaging a point a game, we'll discard that season and look at the 4 prior in terms of points:

Player A, last 4 seasons: 63, 81, 70, 69
Player B, last 4 seasons: 61, 77, 66, 81

Who's who?

Nitpicking: the difference between Kopitar and Roy is size. Kopitar scores goals, Roy gets assists. I'd like to have Anze, sure, but to act like Roy is miles and miles behind is signs of a person who hasn't watched Kopitar play as it relates to style.

I'll give Kopy an edge in the two-way game, but also think Roy gets underrated in that area.

Kopitar doesn't play "huge"...he's not tiny like Roy, but he's no monster truck. Would I swap the two? Yes. Would I do Brown/Kopitar for Roy/Vanek? Probably not. You lose too much in the goalscoring department when you get Brown and lose Vanek. Brown's sandpaper and hitting would be welcomed, but I don't see enough of a difference in Roy and Anze to compensate for the difference between Brown and Vanek.

What makes Kopitar a #1 and Roy a #2 center? Kopitar has been seeing top center minutes, they haven't won anything, similar stats, I'd bet they're both used in key situations in all zones, etc.

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02-29-2012, 02:49 PM
  #66
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Roy+ for Kopitar doesn't value out. Roy+ for Getzlaf does.

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:01 PM
  #67
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Since Roy was hurt last year, averaging a point a game, we'll discard that season and look at the 4 prior in terms of points:

Player A, last 4 seasons: 63, 81, 70, 69
Player B, last 4 seasons: 61, 77, 66, 81

Who's who?
so we aren't looking at the 2 most recent seasons? makes sense

Player A : 529 games / 418 pts / career .79 pts per game
Player B : 457 games / 412 pts / career .90 pts per game

nice try though...



Quote:
Nitpicking: the difference between Kopitar and Roy is size. Kopitar scores goals, Roy gets assists. I'd like to have Anze, sure, but to act like Roy is miles and miles behind is signs of a person who hasn't watched Kopitar play as it relates to style.
so the difference is size AND goalscoring...

Quote:
I'll give Kopy an edge in the two-way game, but also think Roy gets underrated in that area.
Roy sucks defensively. Anze is very good defensively. the difference is huge.

Quote:
Kopitar doesn't play "huge"...he's not tiny like Roy, but he's no monster truck. Would I swap the two? Yes. Would I do Brown/Kopitar for Roy/Vanek? Probably not. You lose too much in the goalscoring department when you get Brown and lose Vanek. Brown's sandpaper and hitting would be welcomed, but I don't see enough of a difference in Roy and Anze to compensate for the difference between Brown and Vanek.
goals per game last 3 seasons :
Roy 175 gams / 49 goals / .28
Vanek 210 games / 82 goals / .39

Kopitar 221 games / 86 goals / .39
Brown 228 games / 70 goals / .30

So the Sabres get bigger, more physical, better defensively... AND... no drop off in goal scoring at all.

Once again, you're wrong

Quote:
What makes Kopitar a #1 and Roy a #2 center? Kopitar has been seeing top center minutes, they haven't won anything, similar stats, I'd bet they're both used in key situations in all zones, etc.
if you have to ask....

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Old
02-29-2012, 03:02 PM
  #68
Jame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Roy+ for Kopitar doesn't value out. Roy+ for Getzlaf does.
yea ...

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02-29-2012, 03:03 PM
  #69
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Until the trade for Hodgson and the trade of Gaustad I was concerned about trading Roy. I cannot speak to his off ice issues if he has any. On the ice he usually works hard, kills penalties and produces points. He is a little selfish for a guy who does not score a ton of goals---he should be more of a playmaker but I seldom see great passes by him to his wingers. He likes to dangle with the puck a la Briere but has not got the Briere acceleration, speed or touch. With what we have now at center I would like some more size to effect suitable matchups, a little more grit and a true play maker to make the wingers on his line better. Roy never seemed to me to do the latter. I guess that along with hopes of a good return, is why I would trade Derek.

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02-29-2012, 07:04 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by 1970 View Post
I'm assuming you were busy Saturday night and missed the Rangers game?
Yeah I was playing Tera Online closed beta test over the weekend.

Though I did glance over and see the one where he got interfered with and fell over was it that one?

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Old
02-29-2012, 09:50 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Why are you comparing wing to center and vice versa?

How about

Roy = Kopitar
Brown < Vanek


????

I LOVE Kopitar. I played against Brown when he was in HS. They're both great, and would be good additions. But it's sad to see how lowballed our own guys get.

If nothing else, it'd be a shakeup for both teams. But again...why Kopitar and Brown swapped for TV/Roy?

DB and Kopy haven't won a thing, and have been given the load just the same as our two, no?
What does this have to do with anything...? Are you implying you won in high school?

On a separate note, I wouldn't mind keeping Roy if we got a top 6 big center. We're just too damn small. This year has been terrible for him and my frustration with him is at an all time high. If we got a big center top 6 center, we could move him to wing, sort of like Pavelski. His value is pretty high, so I'm sure that's another reason we could trade him. Get some nice assets back.

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