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Old
02-29-2012, 05:35 PM
  #226
artilector
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
"Son... you're fine. Rub some dirt on it and get back out there with your unguaranteed contract, apartment, pregnant wife (one day)"

EK: "But the Dr's in Germany said..."

"Germany... You trust those money grabbling, self-loathing, overly conservative offspring of nazi's?! You know they lost, right"

EK: "Uh I got to go to the bathroom.... I'll be right back."

Runs to airport
Heh.

The wife is another unpredictable factor, though. And if it comes to raising young kids, having family around is HUGE.

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02-29-2012, 06:37 PM
  #227
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Russia is unpredictable.. plus KHL is a "national" pet project.. I don't think the issue of guaranteed contracts is insurmountable there, at least for the big teams. There seems to be an increasing number of players from Western Europe coming to play for Russian soccer teams, for example. I think KHL could quite possibly figure out a way to offer huge guaranteed money at least to the best young hockey players even if it means channeling them to the top (state-sponsored) teams.

I'm sure some/many top players, like the really competitive ones, will always want to try the NHL.. but I can see KHL putting a significant dam in that stream.
Maybe, but frankly, the KHL has a hugely long way to go in providing the level of competition, quality of environment, and labor conditions that the NHL has. It's not gonna catch up super soon.

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02-29-2012, 06:47 PM
  #228
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Maybe, but frankly, the KHL has a hugely long way to go in providing the level of competition, quality of environment, and labor conditions that the NHL has. It's not gonna catch up super soon.
I don't dispute that. I just think that it doesn't necessarily need to fully catch up in order to keep some of the top players.

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02-29-2012, 07:30 PM
  #229
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I don't dispute that. I just think that it doesn't necessarily need to fully catch up in order to keep some of the top players.
Probably true. My original point tho, was, WRT Kuz, if he doesn't choose to come over here, given current conditions, maybe he's not the competitor we hope he is.

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02-29-2012, 08:16 PM
  #230
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Probably true. My original point tho, was, WRT Kuz, if he doesn't choose to come over here, given current conditions, maybe he's not the competitor we hope he is.
Eh, I think that would be taking it too far. Probably a very small fraction of athletes would leave significant money on the table and go half way across the world just because the level of competition is higher on the other side. How many of the current Caps players would do that -- forego money and comfort if it meant more competitive hockey elsewhere? And that's the scenario that we're talking about, I'm assuming -- KHL finding a way to throw a lot of money at Kuz, especially early on.

In any case, based on what I've seen in the WJCs, Kuz's compete level at least in big games is top-notch. So if he ends up staying in Russia, I don't think there's any way to rationalize it as a positive thing for the Caps..

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02-29-2012, 08:49 PM
  #231
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Eh, I think that would be taking it too far. Probably a very small fraction of athletes would leave significant money on the table and go half way across the world just because the level of competition is higher on the other side. How many of the current Caps players would do that -- forego money and comfort if it meant more competitive hockey elsewhere? And that's the scenario that we're talking about, I'm assuming -- KHL finding a way to throw a lot of money at Kuz, especially early on.

In any case, based on what I've seen in the WJCs, Kuz's compete level at least in big games is top-notch. So if he ends up staying in Russia, I don't think there's any way to rationalize it as a positive thing for the Caps..
No way it's good for the Caps. But it's not as if there's not big money to be made in North America. I actually do think players who truly want to play with the best and be one of them come here for that reason. It's not as if they will be paupers anyway.

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02-29-2012, 09:39 PM
  #232
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You say this based on what? Because i highly doubt this is the case, Russian best stay at home untill at least 20-22 years of age.
Look at where these talented Russians who have come over will be taken.

Look where the ones who've stayed in the KHL and KHL juniors are taken.

There's no perfect system, but I would be willing to wager that many NHL teams are happier selecting players who are CHL proven rather than KHL juniors players whose competition is pretty awful.

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03-01-2012, 12:44 AM
  #233
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You say this based on what? Because i highly doubt this is the case, Russian best stay at home untill at least 20-22 years of age.
Based on reality. The CHL leagues are the three top major junior leagues in the world. Even most KHL supporters admit that the level of competition in the MHL is not that high.

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03-01-2012, 03:48 AM
  #234
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Heh.

The wife is another unpredictable factor, though. And if it comes to raising young kids, having family around is HUGE.
European families, they'll probably move over here...

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03-01-2012, 05:37 AM
  #235
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Playing in the CHL is better than playing in Russian Juniors. Probably even better for development then 10 minutes of ice time in the KHL.

As long as that's the case, you're going to see more elite young Russians come over. Especially when they know it's financially better for them to be here and learn the game early.
This is absolute nonsense. MHL ist definitely not worse than CHL especially for european players. What they learn in the CHL is how to play he NA game, but they loose exactly waht makes them unique, the european hockey.

They are also better off financially in Russia than in CHL.

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03-01-2012, 05:39 AM
  #236
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Based on reality. The CHL leagues are the three top major junior leagues in the world. Even most KHL supporters admit that the level of competition in the MHL is not that high.
WJC 2011, WJC 2012. Both times the CHL's best were beaten by MHL's best. Yeah, MHL is bad.

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Old
03-01-2012, 06:03 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
"Son... you're fine. Rub some dirt on it and get back out there with your unguaranteed contract, apartment, pregnant wife (one day)"

EK: "But the Dr's in Germany said..."

"Germany... You trust those money grabbling, self-loathing, overly conservative offspring of nazi's?! You know they lost, right"

EK: "Uh I got to go to the bathroom.... I'll be right back."

Runs to airport
nice try to be funny. it's a guarateed bust if you don't really know about Russia, Germany, EK or "Traktor".

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Old
03-01-2012, 06:13 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by californiacapsfan View Post
For now and for the foreseeable future, the quality of competition in the NHL is vastly higher than in the K. As long as that is the case, top tier competitors will want to play here. That is why Ovie, Malkin, Datsyuk, Kovalev, etc. play here. That is why Jagr wanted to come back. As for Kuz, if he does not want to be here, it says to me that he's not a top competitor -- a top talent, clearly, but not competitor.

That is all.
"For now" and "vastly" is completely WRONG. And for the "foreseeable future" the NHL will have to learn to adjust to another "best league in the world". Your position is wishful thinking.

Ovi, Makin, Datsyuk have come BEFORE there was a KHL. Jagr wanted to come back because he had his years in the KHL, he wasn't happy with the team any more and he didn't want to go to another KHL team. He had a chocie between NHL and home.

Kuz maybe doesn't want to be in the NHL because of this arrogant "NHL is beter, NA is better attitude" in NA. he's pretty comfortably at home where we don't consider the NHL a Mekka for hockey players. I personnally am so full of reading the name "Crosby" in any freaking article about Malkin. I will gladly see the fute generations of russian players play at home anf get the respect they deserve.

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:15 AM
  #239
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Based on reality. The CHL leagues are the three top major junior leagues in the world. Even most KHL supporters admit that the level of competition in the MHL is not that high.

The MHL is a very solid league. I have yet to hear a player say they left the MHL because the CHL is better competition.

Russians play in the CHL because its the fast-path to the NHL. And by that I mean learning the NA game, proving the "Russian factor" doesn't apply, not getting tied to a KHL contract, exposure, etc.

Saying that, for Russians, the perceived fast-path to the NHL has historically proven to be the worst path....particularly for forwards.

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Old
03-01-2012, 09:51 AM
  #240
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The whole "we won the WJCs" is a silly argument. Whose best players from the CHL are in the NHL?

If you put on the three or four best players from the past two drafts to the WJC team who are in the NHL instead of juniors, Canada's superior.

The MHL is improving, but it's nowhere near the CHL. That's just the facts, no matter what the biased homers might feel.

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03-01-2012, 10:40 AM
  #241
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If EK comes over, do you guys think that he will be slotted in as C or a W? Based on our weakness down the middle, I've been holding out hope that he can eventually be a 1C or 2C, giving us two solid scoring lines. It seems like most people think that he will start as a W, but the hole in the caps lineup is not at W (especially if Semin signs for another year).

Curious to hear peoples thoughts....?

If the consensus is that he is ultimately an NHL winger, then we better be trying to package our 2X #1's and maybe a player to go up and get a C that is projected to be a 1a/1b C.

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03-01-2012, 10:57 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
The whole "we won the WJCs" is a silly argument. Whose best players from the CHL are in the NHL?

If you put on the three or four best players from the past two drafts to the WJC team who are in the NHL instead of juniors, Canada's superior.

The MHL is improving, but it's nowhere near the CHL. That's just the facts, no matter what the biased homers might feel.
In reality it's better the then the q, on par with the w.

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03-01-2012, 11:14 AM
  #243
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I don't agree at all. In a pure skill stand point, maybe. The KHL is littered with talented washouts from the NHL who might be able to put the puck through their legs and score, but couldn't play a lick of a defense. when you factor in the impact of adjustment to the NA game, the NA lifestyle and the culture, it's the CHL by a decent margin.

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03-01-2012, 11:17 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I don't agree at all. In a pure skill stand point, maybe. The KHL is littered with talented washouts from the NHL who might be able to put the puck through their legs and score, but couldn't play a lick of a defense. when you factor in the impact of adjustment to the NA game, the NA lifestyle and the culture, it's the CHL by a decent margin.
Recent super series numbers say different.

And anyways why are you bringing up the KHL, aren't we talking about junior leagues?

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03-01-2012, 11:32 AM
  #245
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they're the same type of talents they're learning in the MHL that they go onto display in the KHL.

I don't give much stock at all to the WJC or the Super Series. Sure, it's a fun dog and pony show that's entertaining to watch. But that doesn't show "who has the best players and is producing the most talented players" to anyone. Many of the best players in the world in those age groups aren't ever going to be there from a lot of the nations involved. Not to mention, teams with elite scoring usually have an advantage in short tournaments with minimal preparation time. Doesn't always work out, but that's often the case.

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03-01-2012, 11:57 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
they're the same type of talents they're learning in the MHL that they go onto display in the KHL.

I don't give much stock at all to the WJC or the Super Series. Sure, it's a fun dog and pony show that's entertaining to watch. But that doesn't show "who has the best players and is producing the most talented players" to anyone. Many of the best players in the world in those age groups aren't ever going to be there from a lot of the nations involved. Not to mention, teams with elite scoring usually have an advantage in short tournaments with minimal preparation time. Doesn't always work out, but that's often the case.
Then what do you give stock to, I've seen many mhl games and many chl games.

Your basically saying the only times the players from both leagues meet have meaning?

Looks like your just being biased.

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03-01-2012, 12:42 PM
  #247
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Coach said he was on crutches and not to expect him back very soonm according to Twitter.

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03-01-2012, 01:13 PM
  #248
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Super series and WJC are just comparing the top handful of players from each league. Sure, the top players in the MHL have a lot of talent. Nobody doubts that. But the quantity of good players in the CHL far outstrips the quantity of good players in the MHL. That's where the difference lies.

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03-01-2012, 02:37 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Super series and WJC are just comparing the top handful of players from each league. Sure, the top players in the MHL have a lot of talent. Nobody doubts that. But the quantity of good players in the CHL far outstrips the quantity of good players in the MHL. That's where the difference lies.
Not as much as you think, but yeah I agree CHL does have better depth.

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03-01-2012, 03:00 PM
  #250
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Not as much as you think, but yeah I agree CHL does have better depth.
I think if you take the top 5 or 6 teams from each league and put them in a tournament, and most of the CHL clubs would win.

I do think when you cherry pick the MHL teams, let them practice a bit, they can compete with CHL players in most tournaments.

But depth and the amount of top end talent is the difference between the two. And it's not just Russians who are talented in the CHL. That's the dividing factor in a lot of minds.

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