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Going into the playoffs: Are you comfortable with Brian Boyle?

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Old
03-01-2012, 02:59 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Khelvan View Post
I disagree that it is blind love. He has helped turn Boyle into a very good center who shuts down the opponents' top lines on one of the best teams in hockey. He also steps up in the playoffs.

This whole team lacks high-octane offense. I challenge you to name a "3rd line center" who would shut down the opponents' top lines while providing significantly more offense than Boyle in this system.
This is all a liberal media conspiracy theory! Clearly GARY BETTMAN and the rest of the EVIL EMPIRE is trying to take down Brian Boyle, who has been nothing short of a model citizen!

Brian Boyle is immaculate! He would have won the Rocket Richard trophy if it weren't for this HORRIBLE CONSPIRACY THEORY!

FIRE BRIAN BOYLE@!@!

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03-01-2012, 03:12 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Aileen C View Post
This is all a liberal media conspiracy theory! Clearly GARY BETTMAN and the rest of the EVIL EMPIRE is trying to take down Brian Boyle, who has been nothing short of a model citizen!

Brian Boyle is immaculate! He would have won the Rocket Richard trophy if it weren't for this HORRIBLE CONSPIRACY THEORY!

FIRE BRIAN BOYLE@!@!
Jordan Staal.

when Crosby is healthy, best 3rd line center in hockey. Can do it all.

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03-01-2012, 03:35 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aileen C View Post
This is all a liberal media conspiracy theory! Clearly GARY BETTMAN and the rest of the EVIL EMPIRE is trying to take down Brian Boyle, who has been nothing short of a model citizen!

Brian Boyle is immaculate! He would have won the Rocket Richard trophy if it weren't for this HORRIBLE CONSPIRACY THEORY!

FIRE BRIAN BOYLE@!@!
Wait, I thought we were talking about Brian Boyle, not Sean Avery!

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Old
03-01-2012, 07:46 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
I think a point I want to make is, I'm not mad that Brian Boyle is not lighting up the lamp. I am annoyed that he is offensive zone poison imo. I feel he makes other players, like Dubi and Prust, look worse in the offensive zone. He kills plays ALL THE TIME(somtimes as soon as he touches the puck). You can't have your pivot killing plays, especially when your wings are busting their butts on a forecheck.
Yeah, Dubi having 4 points in his last 19 games is on Boyle. Dubi has the 3rd highest cap hit along with Callahan, he is payed to be a factor in the offensive production. Boyle is not.

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03-01-2012, 09:04 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Jordan Staal on a healthy Pens team?
But that is just a pie in the sky wish. You are talking about a player who would be the second line center on most teams. When discussing who is an upgrade to Boyle, please be realistic, and not wish for a top player who only happens to be on the 3rd line becuae he has someone names Crosby & Malkin ahead of him.

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Old
03-01-2012, 09:44 AM
  #106
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I'm perfectly comfortable with him as a 4th line center and even on a 3rd "checking" line and of course on the PK.

I am however not comfortable with him being used as part of a "first" line when being down a goal or two like Torts did it a few times because Boyle's line looked best. I'd still rather stick to more offensively adept guys at such times.

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03-01-2012, 10:14 AM
  #107
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Martin Hanzal is Pho's top center. Staal was my immediate reaction to a better shut down center who chips in offense. And it is part of the reason Pitt is one of them teams I believe to be more talented and would like to see being forced to play against Boston or the Flyers in the first round to take a little bit out of them. But other than Jordan Staal, who I covet, what other third line centers play their intended role of truly shutting down other team's top lines and chip in significantly more offense than Boyle?
Let's not try and create the definition of a third line center to meet the skill set of our current iteration.

In our division the 3rd line centers are:

Staal (Sid healthy)
Zubrus
Schenn
Neilsen

Everyone of these guys is a significantly better hockey player than BB. They may not all have the role that Brian has; many teams use their 4th center or 2nd line center to match up against the other teams best offensive players. And on the road, it's a crap shoot.

Others of note:

Laich
Paulsson
Kelly
Handzus
Helm
Sutter
Santorelli
Bolland
Gaustad
Arnott
Fiddler
Stoll
Langkow
Steckel

Which one of these guys would you not swap straight up for Brian Boyle for this year (age not an issue; sometimes it helps Brian (arnott) sometimes it doesn't (Sutter and Schenn)?

After this is a group that we could debate, like:

Leino
Eller
Zach Smith
Pelley
Slater
Ryan Johanssen

If you compare him to 4th line centers around the league he stacks up much better.

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:17 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hellohf View Post
Yeah, Dubi having 4 points in his last 19 games is on Boyle. Dubi has the 3rd highest cap hit along with Callahan, he is payed to be a factor in the offensive production. Boyle is not.
Boyle makes 1.9M. As a third line center he needs to chip in offensively and he cannot. It's not just goals. His creativity is non existent, he cannot dangle, he cannot dish. He is a 4th line center who kills penalties. If he does more it will catch up on us because he is not that good.

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03-01-2012, 12:09 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Hellohf View Post
Yeah, Dubi having 4 points in his last 19 games is on Boyle. Dubi has the 3rd highest cap hit along with Callahan, he is payed to be a factor in the offensive production. Boyle is not.
Of course, I'm not saying that Boyle is to blame for Dubi's problem. Dubi put himself in his situation. But if a dude is being payed for offensive production, I seriously doubt he is going to find his game with Brian Boyle. We had Carl Hagelin on Boyle's line for a while, and he hit a brick wall when he played with him.


Last edited by Blueshirt Believer: 03-01-2012 at 12:31 PM.
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Old
03-01-2012, 12:32 PM
  #110
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Sooooo much hate for Boyle. Kinda funny. He's a frustrating player to watch, but he's more than adequate for his role. You can never fault the effort.

A pretty gutty player, imo. He has my respect.

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03-01-2012, 12:35 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Sooooo much hate for Boyle. Kinda funny. He's a frustrating player to watch, but he's more than adequate for his role. You can never fault the effort.

A pretty gutty player, imo. He has my respect.
No hate. But too much ice time at times of the game where he should be nailed to the bench. He is a role player getting regular ice time. Not his fault; he is giving everything he has.

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03-01-2012, 01:32 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Let's not try and create the definition of a third line center to meet the skill set of our current iteration.

In our division the 3rd line centers are:

Staal (Sid healthy)
Zubrus
Schenn
Neilsen

Everyone of these guys is a significantly better hockey player than BB. They may not all have the role that Brian has; many teams use their 4th center or 2nd line center to match up against the other teams best offensive players. And on the road, it's a crap shoot.

Others of note:

Laich
Paulsson
Kelly
Handzus
Helm
Sutter
Santorelli
Bolland
Gaustad
Arnott
Fiddler
Stoll
Langkow
Steckel

Which one of these guys would you not swap straight up for Brian Boyle for this year (age not an issue; sometimes it helps Brian (arnott) sometimes it doesn't (Sutter and Schenn)?

After this is a group that we could debate, like:

Leino
Eller
Zach Smith
Pelley
Slater
Ryan Johanssen

If you compare him to 4th line centers around the league he stacks up much better.
Let's take a look at the salaries of said players above:

Staal (Sid healthy) - 4 million
Zubrus - 3.4 million
Schenn - 3.1 million
Neilsen - .525 million this season/2.75 million next season (re-signed)

Laich - 4.5 million
Paulsson - 2.65 million
Kelly - 2.125 million
Handzus - 2.5 million
Helm - .9125 million this season/RFA in the off-season
Sutter - 2.067 million
Santorelli - 1.6 million
Bolland - 3.375 million
Gaustad - 2.3 million
Arnott - 2.875 million
Fiddler - 1.8 million
Stoll - 3.6 million
Langkow - 4.5 million
Steckel - 1.1 million

Leino - 4.5 million
Eller - 1.27 million this season/RFA in the off-season
Zach Smith - .7 million
Pelley - .55 million
Slater - 1.0 million
Ryan Johanssen - 1.945 million

The problem is that peoples expectations for a 3rd line center are too high. Most of the players above were signed to be more than just the normal 3rd line center. Brian Boyle was signed to be more than a 4th line center, which he unarguably is.

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Old
03-01-2012, 02:25 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
But that is just a pie in the sky wish. You are talking about a player who would be the second line center on most teams. When discussing who is an upgrade to Boyle, please be realistic, and not wish for a top player who only happens to be on the 3rd line becuae he has someone names Crosby & Malkin ahead of him.
I know. Just like Malkin is not a second line center. Just talking about the NHL as a whole, not going into specific details.

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Old
03-01-2012, 02:27 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Let's take a look at the salaries of said players above:

Staal (Sid healthy) - 4 million
Zubrus - 3.4 million
Schenn - 3.1 million
Neilsen - .525 million this season/2.75 million next season (re-signed)

Laich - 4.5 million
Paulsson - 2.65 million
Kelly - 2.125 million
Handzus - 2.5 million
Helm - .9125 million this season/RFA in the off-season
Sutter - 2.067 million
Santorelli - 1.6 million
Bolland - 3.375 million
Gaustad - 2.3 million
Arnott - 2.875 million
Fiddler - 1.8 million
Stoll - 3.6 million
Langkow - 4.5 million
Steckel - 1.1 million

Leino - 4.5 million
Eller - 1.27 million this season/RFA in the off-season
Zach Smith - .7 million
Pelley - .55 million
Slater - 1.0 million
Ryan Johanssen - 1.945 million

The problem is that peoples expectations for a 3rd line center are too high. Most of the players above were signed to be more than just the normal 3rd line center. Brian Boyle was signed to be more than a 4th line center, which he unarguably is.
Agreed. However, my issue is not with Brian's performance. He's working his butt off. My issue is with how he is used. Unfortunately, any offense he produces is by happenstance and he destoys many promising offensive plays. I do not believe we can win in the playoffs where only two lines can reasonably score on any given shift. So, this is purely about him slotting down to the 4th line where he belongs.

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Old
03-01-2012, 02:47 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Agreed. However, my issue is not with Brian's performance. He's working his butt off. My issue is with how he is used. Unfortunately, any offense he produces is by happenstance and he destoys many promising offensive plays. I do not believe we can win in the playoffs where only two lines can reasonably score on any given shift. So, this is purely about him slotting down to the 4th line where he belongs.
I agree that he is not amazing offensively, but his line normally controls the puck down low and works hard every shift. They are difficult to play against and while that may not show up on the scoresheet, over a 7 game series, it is a factor for sure.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:12 PM
  #116
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has anyone really broken down Boyle's 2011 season vs his 2012 season? what was he doing so differently last year, heck in the first half of last season that he isn't getting done this season? I think, in terms of fan perception, a big issue was we saw a scoring beast (but hey, we saw a similar scoring beast in Voros for like 12 games at one point) for part of last season, we got our expectations up, he got a sizable contract reflecting several improvements that he made to his game, and now he hasn't lived up to our past expectations or his contract.

If his cap hit was smaller, would we cut him more slack? What could he do differently to help his game?

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03-01-2012, 03:15 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
has anyone really broken down Boyle's 2011 season vs his 2012 season? what was he doing so differently last year, heck in the first half of last season that he isn't getting done this season? I think, in terms of fan perception, a big issue was we saw a scoring beast (but hey, we saw a similar scoring beast in Voros for like 12 games at one point) for part of last season, we got our expectations up, he got a sizable contract reflecting several improvements that he made to his game, and now he hasn't lived up to our past expectations or his contract.

If his cap hit was smaller, would we cut him more slack? What could he do differently to help his game?
Boyle's contract is OK for what he brings.

It's Dubinsky's contract people should be worried about.

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Old
03-01-2012, 03:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
has anyone really broken down Boyle's 2011 season vs his 2012 season? what was he doing so differently last year, heck in the first half of last season that he isn't getting done this season? I think, in terms of fan perception, a big issue was we saw a scoring beast (but hey, we saw a similar scoring beast in Voros for like 12 games at one point) for part of last season, we got our expectations up, he got a sizable contract reflecting several improvements that he made to his game, and now he hasn't lived up to our past expectations or his contract.

If his cap hit was smaller, would we cut him more slack? What could he do differently to help his game?
Its called teh Aaron Voros effect. Every few years a guy just gets incredibly lucky and pucks start finding the back of the net for a few months...then, it evaporates.

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03-01-2012, 03:47 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
has anyone really broken down Boyle's 2011 season vs his 2012 season? what was he doing so differently last year, heck in the first half of last season that he isn't getting done this season? I think, in terms of fan perception, a big issue was we saw a scoring beast (but hey, we saw a similar scoring beast in Voros for like 12 games at one point) for part of last season, we got our expectations up, he got a sizable contract reflecting several improvements that he made to his game, and now he hasn't lived up to our past expectations or his contract.

If his cap hit was smaller, would we cut him more slack? What could he do differently to help his game?
Everything went right; pretty simple. This year he is producing more along the lines of his talent. He will end up with around 20 points which is fine for a 4th line center; not a 3rd line center. Too much ES ice time.

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03-01-2012, 04:07 PM
  #120
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No hate. But too much ice time at times of the game where he should be nailed to the bench. He is a role player getting regular ice time. Not his fault; he is giving everything he has.
OK, but he does not just magically appear on the ice, LOL.

Somebody sends him out there. Why?

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03-01-2012, 04:27 PM
  #121
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Sooooo much hate for Boyle. Kinda funny. He's a frustrating player to watch, but he's more than adequate for his role. You can never fault the effort.

A pretty gutty player, imo. He has my respect.

This sums up my opinion pretty well. He drives me crazy sometimes with the way he gets knocked down, mishandles pucks, etc, but he basically embodies our team right now (along with the obvious guys like Cally). I have no issue with/distrust of Boyle himself, if I have any complaints its about his use when we're behind, but that would be a knock on Torts. Especially in the playoffs when games and series turn into battles, we need guys like him.

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03-01-2012, 09:02 PM
  #122
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Boyle has been one of the best players on the ice for us tonight

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03-01-2012, 09:05 PM
  #123
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Yes, he has.

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Old
03-01-2012, 09:43 PM
  #124
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Boyle has been one of the best players on the ice for us tonight
No question, he was one of our best players tonight easily. Hopefully this is a good sign for him.

Maybe Feds will be a on that line from now on.

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03-01-2012, 10:06 PM
  #125
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Well after tonight's game, I feel pretty good about Boiler.

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