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Old
01-31-2006, 09:42 AM
  #251
True Blue
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Originally Posted by bathgate
I've said all year that Renney does not utilize home ice. Jagr should not play against Hatcher.Do we strategize during games?The game also points out that the Rangers will need another physical dman and a power forward to compete.
No, there is no strategy. All year long, Renney's in-game strategy seems to have been the stubborn insistance that Jagr's natural talent will be enough to overcome anything thrown at him on the ice. I know that he scored a goal yesterday, but maybe if he did not have to compete againt the players that Hitch wanted on the ice against him, he could have had another goal. Or set someone else up. Renney's refusal to utilize the last line change, let alone actually...gasp...change on the fly is maddening. He gets dicatated to on a nightly basis by the opposing coach as far as match-ups go. That is the one major part of Sather's so-called game-planning that I wish he did not adhere to.
And as for the physical fowards, I think that you may be in for a major dissappointement in that department. Renney has shown that he has a very strong preference to skill over anything else. If a player has even a little more in the skill dept. than another player, Renney's natural bias for such a player will almost always see him in the lineup.
On another note, the more I see it the more I think that if this team is to take a major step forward, there is no way that at least 2 of the threesome of Rozsival, Poti & Strudwick can be in the Rangers plans for the top 6 defensemen for next year. Toots, Malik & Kasper are locks. But at least 2 of the first threesome need to be replaced. I would say all three, but that is just too much to hope for.
Strudwick is a player who needs to take a seat now, though. With every passing game, it is rather obvious why he has not managed to hold a full time gig as a top 6 defenseman prior to this year. Great team guy. Good 7th defenseman/13th depth-type player. But a starter, he is not.

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01-31-2006, 09:52 AM
  #252
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Hey TB..how about some words on Hossa last night?

Yes it was only 1 game but it was a big game and the kid really played very well and was taking the body and playing assertive all night in the limited minutes he got.

Not in the least going overboard about the kid because I too was tired of the inconsistency and lack of production but maybe Renney is making him his pet project in a way and if he get Hossa's potential unlocked somehow it could be a real nice suprise as the kid obviously has all the tools as well as great size.

I personally wanted Hollweg in the lineup last night but Hossa had a better game last night the Ryan would've contributed.

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01-31-2006, 10:04 AM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Hey TB..how about some words on Hossa last night?

Yes it was only 1 game but it was a big game and the kid really played very well and was taking the body and playing assertive all night in the limited minutes he got.

Not in the least going overboard about the kid because I too was tired of the inconsistency and lack of production but maybe Renney is making him his pet project in a way and if he get Hossa's potential unlocked somehow it could be a real nice suprise as the kid obviously has all the tools as well as great size.

I personally wanted Hollweg in the lineup last night but Hossa had a better game last night the Ryan would've contributed.


I agree, Hossa showed brutal strenght tonight, was very impressed with him.
I would be more than willing to give him some more chances.

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Old
01-31-2006, 10:08 AM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
Cheap shot artist...He hits a guy who leaves himself open because he wants to ensure the ref seen the high stick...how about the elbo Kasparitis hit Kapenen with or the knee on knee from Karparitis to Brashear.

Maybe someone should have hit Kasparitis like that when he got high sticked in the arm pit and held his face a drew a penalty...That's Karma.
No knee on knee if Brash doesn't try to move. Brashear moved out of the way at the last second, that call was horrible.

If the blade of the stick doesn't get caught up in Kapars arm he wouldve been hit in the face - flagrant use my friend. He's lucky, couldve gotten at least a double minor if he had cut him.

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01-31-2006, 10:25 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13
No knee on knee if Brash doesn't try to move. Brashear moved out of the way at the last second, that call was horrible.

If the blade of the stick doesn't get caught up in Kapars arm he wouldve been hit in the face - flagrant use my friend. He's lucky, couldve gotten at least a double minor if he had cut him.
I don't want to Knit pick, but it clearly never touched him in the face...Even Mr.Pro Ranger, JD said it himself.

I'm just saying that to call someone on the opposing team a chaep shot artist for a clean hit...have a look at your own squad.

All in all it was a good game by both clubs...and to the Rags fans (select few) who are all over Lundqvist...wake up and realize what gem you have.

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01-31-2006, 10:28 AM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Hey TB..how about some words on Hossa last night?

Yes it was only 1 game but it was a big game and the kid really played very well and was taking the body and playing assertive all night in the limited minutes he got.

Not in the least going overboard about the kid because I too was tired of the inconsistency and lack of production but maybe Renney is making him his pet project in a way and if he get Hossa's potential unlocked somehow it could be a real nice suprise as the kid obviously has all the tools as well as great size.

I personally wanted Hollweg in the lineup last night but Hossa had a better game last night the Ryan would've contributed.
no doubt about that. Hossa was fantastic almost every shift. He could've scored on three chance he created himself with hard work.

I love Hollweg but not at the expense of Hossa (although i may change my mind as soon as the other Hossa returns)

Some posters that have obvious problems with European players (not naming any names of course) are not going to like hossa playing.

Renney did a great job last night of matching lines. You can't not play Jagr againts Hatcher and it's not like Hatcher did anything to stop Jagr from i don't know SCORING A GOAL!!!

Tough loss but the team has a point in every Flyer game this season. The Rangers are not being blown out but the Flyers and these game could've gone either way.

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01-31-2006, 10:36 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Hey TB..how about some words on Hossa last night?
I alreade commented about this in another thread and did not want to clog up this one with Hossa talk. But I will address your points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
but Hossa had a better game last night the Ryan would've contributed.
Don't see how you can say that since I am reasonably sure that Hollweg could have emerged from the night with zero points as well. If Hossa is not scoring points, there is not one facet of the game in which he is better than Hollweg. He SHOULD BE, but is not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Yes it was only 1 game but it was a big game and the kid really played very well and was taking the body and playing assertive all night in the limited minutes he got.
He does not take the body nearly as effectively as Hollweg does. He may have played better, but the bottom line is that this is now the third full game with zero points. If he is not putting up points, then he has no place on the HMO line instead of Hollweg.
Now if you want to make a point that a vet should have been sat and BOTH Hollweg and Hossa play, that is a different issue entirely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JR#9
Not in the least going overboard about the kid because I too was tired of the inconsistency and lack of production but maybe Renney is making him his pet project in a way and if he get Hossa's potential unlocked somehow it could be a real nice suprise as the kid obviously has all the tools as well as great size.
Oh, he most assuredly is Renney's pet project. The problem is procuction. Like Poti being an offensive defenseman, who does not produce points, Hossa is an offensive forward who does not produce points. And players like these are not producing points, then the team is better off with players who do all the things that these guys do not.

It's not that I hate Hossa or anything like that, it is just hard for me to justify sitting Hollweg for a forward who is not doing what he is supposed to do. IMO, the Habs fans were dead-ono about Hossa. Has immense talent and potential, but simply refuses to show it, aside from a quick flash here and there.

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Old
01-31-2006, 10:59 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GagsIsDaMan
I don't want to Knit pick, but it clearly never touched him in the face...Even Mr.Pro Ranger, JD said it himself.

I'm just saying that to call someone on the opposing team a chaep shot artist for a clean hit...have a look at your own squad.

All in all it was a good game by both clubs...and to the Rags fans (select few) who are all over Lundqvist...wake up and realize what gem you have.
Read my post, maybe I wasn't clear. The stick never touched Kaspar because it got caught under his arm in the jersey, if not that was headed for his face, it was flagrant use of the stick and the 2 minutes was deserved.

And again, I'm not calling anyone a cheap shot artist, just that Kaspar shouldnt have been called for that 'knee' on Brashear, DK didn't extend the knee, Brashear kinda jumped out of the way and put himself in trouble on that play.

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Old
01-31-2006, 11:28 AM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
It's not that I hate Hossa or anything like that, it is just hard for me to justify sitting Hollweg for a forward who is not doing what he is supposed to do. IMO, the Habs fans were dead-ono about Hossa. Has immense talent and potential, but simply refuses to show it, aside from a quick flash here and there.
At some point, when Hossa has hopefully demonstrated to Renney, that he's willing to use his body as well as his skill, he should replace Niemenen, and Hollweg should skate with Moore and Ortmeyer.

I think Hossa's been doing that (maybe not enough for a 4th liner, but more than he's done in the past). Maybe enough to justify another shot on a scoring line.

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01-31-2006, 11:35 AM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
At some point, when Hossa has hopefully demonstrated to Renney, that he's willing to use his body as well as his skill, he should replace Niemenen, and Hollweg should skate with Moore and Ortmeyer.

I think Hossa's been doing that (maybe not enough for a 4th liner, but more than he's done in the past). Maybe enough to justify another shot on a scoring line.
K,
I would have absolutely no problem with such moves. However, it is now apparent that not only are Czechs immune to benchings, but at this point, the veterans can do no wrong either. Renney is not banching his vets, no matter what brainless penalties or lack of production occurs. So it DOES boil down to Hossa vs. Hollweg. This debate will become moot when Betts returns, Moore is moved to wing and neither Hossa nor Hollweg see the ice.

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01-31-2006, 12:18 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kluivert4Ever
This is interesting, we need another physcial dman and power forward to COMPETE, yet you state that two of the goals we let up were unlucky ones. Now if you take away those goals we win 2-0 in regulation and that would be competing, since Flyers is also one of the better teams in the league.
By compete, I mean in a playoff series. Although I like our chances with Henke, this team will wear down against the Flyers, Senators or Canes. However, I feel we can beat any other team in the conference. Next year, perhaps Staal, Baranka and another join the dmen. Perhaps Jessiman, Dawes and Immonen as forwards. Point is we are rebuilding and these are the gaps I see

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01-31-2006, 04:44 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate
By compete, I mean in a playoff series. Although I like our chances with Henke, this team will wear down against the Flyers, Senators or Canes. However, I feel we can beat any other team in the conference. Next year, perhaps Staal, Baranka and another join the dmen. Perhaps Jessiman, Dawes and Immonen as forwards. Point is we are rebuilding and these are the gaps I see

i'm gonna agree that we need some toughness on this team! yeah we were up and we lost but we were getting pounded all night! this team has some great talent but not enough bangers! ruccin is useless! nemo was ok but won't make me forget esa! ward is good and could be better with some talented na wingers! i say na cause we have enough euros on this team, ricchi would be the kind i would like and simon or barnaby type player for the wing. i don't know how we could get them but i good start would be hossa! get him off this team! all you who wanted him in the line-up last night witness his showing? he drags down the fourth line to the point i could count on my hand how many times i heard their line called, and that was on the pk? hollweg brings more to that line then renny and some on here seem to not relize, tenacity! get rid of hossa while we might be able to get something for him! this team needs to gear up for the stretch and i would not go into battle with some of the guys on this team! we need to get bigger! and get rid of orr cause renny will not play him and it makes no sense keeping his spot on the roster! i mean the guy was in the detroit game and chelios is throwin elbows and doing his thing, renny leaves the guy on the bench to do nothin but watch? thats not acceptable in my book! we were down and chelios was one of ther easons why cause no one would do anything? if orr gets hiom off his game who knows? same with huggie bear from last night, what would have been the differance between orr and hossa last night? and don't sit there and say of he is slow crap either! some of you guys still don't get what having pride in a club mean, i played hockey wasn't the best skater and didn't have the softest hands but you touch one of my teammates and i'd knock you in to next week! this team sorely lacks this! and two were sat in favor of two zeros!

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01-31-2006, 04:48 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
no doubt about that. Hossa was fantastic almost every shift. He could've scored on three chance he created himself with hard work.

I love Hollweg but not at the expense of Hossa (although i may change my mind as soon as the other Hossa returns)

Some posters that have obvious problems with European players (not naming any names of course) are not going to like hossa playing.

Renney did a great job last night of matching lines. You can't not play Jagr againts Hatcher and it's not like Hatcher did anything to stop Jagr from i don't know SCORING A GOAL!!!

Tough loss but the team has a point in every Flyer game this season. The Rangers are not being blown out but the Flyers and these game could've gone either way.

you can name one! me!

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01-31-2006, 05:07 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Renney is not banching his vets, no matter what brainless penalties or lack of production occurs.
He has sat down Nylander, Niemenin and Poti for such transgressions, and there's no reason to think he won't do it for Rucchin if he feels it warranted.

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01-31-2006, 05:24 PM
  #265
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I'm dumb-founded to read that people would actually blame Lundqvist for the loss

The kid was flat-out awesome again.

I'm pissed that we lost, but I can't over the atmosphere at the Garden last night. The place was r-o-c-k-i-n-g.

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01-31-2006, 05:44 PM
  #266
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So the team finally got Henke in nets against the Flyers. The Flyers were without Desjardins, Johnsson, and Forsberg and still won even though Lundqvist played and played well. As a measuring stick game this tells us a lot about the Blueshirts. They are not good enough to compete with the top teams in the league.

Among other things, they're not "hard" enough (and Hollweg would've helped a little but not enough). The team needs top-6 forwards who will finish checks with consistency and some authority, or Renney must show the same confidence in his lower-tier bangers that Hitchcock showed in Brashear last night. They need at least one defenseman who will do the same regarding checks.

Their top-6 forwards must be more willing to fight through checks than skate around them, but part of their unwillingness to do so is that they're not a very strong group of forwards. At the age of mosty of them, there's probably not much help for this. We must hope Sather has drafted some or will acquire some in trade.

As for Hossa, IMO last night's game showed why Sather should be looking for a trade. Hossa skated very well. He created a couple of chances in his own right and set Ortmeyer up foir a gorgeous chance. Problem with Hossa is that he lacks the will or determination to do this every night, and so he does not merit premium minutes with premium linemates, but of course if he's relegated to lower lines he has people who cannot help him and people who cannot capitalize on what he creates. I cheer him for his play last night, yet it's also the very thing that makes me think Sather should get what he can while he can.

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01-31-2006, 06:05 PM
  #267
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I wanted to point out the goals the Flyers scored against Lundqvist. The first one is looked at as a fluke because it hit off of Rucchin's skate and went in. The Richards goal to tie it was very good. For how well Lundqvist played last night, that was the type of setup that was needed to beat him.

I don't even blame the OT winner on Lundqvist. Pitkanen has a great shot and had plenty of room to shoot it. IMO, Nylander is to blame due to the bad line change. I'm sorry but that's something you can't let happen in OT like that.

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01-31-2006, 06:50 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
As for Hossa, IMO last night's game showed why Sather should be looking for a trade. Hossa skated very well. He created a couple of chances in his own right and set Ortmeyer up foir a gorgeous chance. Problem with Hossa is that he lacks the will or determination to do this every night, and so he does not merit premium minutes with premium linemates, but of course if he's relegated to lower lines he has people who cannot help him and people who cannot capitalize on what he creates. I cheer him for his play last night, yet it's also the very thing that makes me think Sather should get what he can while he can.
What's he gonna get for Hossa?

And with the type of players that you contend (and I agree) we need in the future. is it not worth it to hang on to him and see if he takes the necessary steps in attitude and concentration to become that type of player?

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01-31-2006, 07:00 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Davisian
He has sat down Nylander, Niemenin and Poti for such transgressions, and there's no reason to think he won't do it for Rucchin if he feels it warranted.
That was long before the playoffs became within reach. Although Rucchin is not a Czech, so mayhaps. No, I do not see him benching. Rucinsky stunk up the joint for two months, Neimo takes penalties with less than 2 minutes to go in a one goal game and nothing. I would have to see Renney do it to believe it.
I know that he has done it before, and I applauded the moves. However the double standard remains and with the playoffs in site, these moves seem doubtfull.

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01-31-2006, 07:10 PM
  #270
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Tough lose. I couldn't even bring myself to come on here last night or today. In a period of about 10 minutes i went from thinking Lundy was gonna get the shutout to watching the Rangers beaten in OT.

Yeah there were some weird plays, but with the injuries this is a game the Rangers should've done better with. This team scrambled too much last night and frankly I gotta agree with True Blue on this one.

This team, even when successful seems to get into too much of a habit that two players will be there to bail them out: Jagr and Lundqvist. I don't think that's the team's fault, but Renney sometimes just does not adjust. It's almost like he's so sure something will work than when it doesn't he's actually angered by it and refuses to try something else.

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01-31-2006, 07:53 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
What's he gonna get for Hossa?

And with the type of players that you contend (and I agree) we need in the future. is it not worth it to hang on to him and see if he takes the necessary steps in attitude and concentration to become that type of player?
I think your points are valid, and I don't think you'll get much for him - a draft pick is probably about all.

At the same time he's 24.5; he's been in the league since 2001; he's been traded already. I just don't think the kid has the mental makeup to pull it all together and raise his value. If being shipped to the Rangers after a good pre-season with the Habs didn't shake him into awareness, I just don't see it happening. Mind you, I don't think Sather should be rushing to get Hossa out the door. Take your time; look for what's out there; take the best thing that comes along by the trade deadline.

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01-31-2006, 08:53 PM
  #272
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Does much of the board agree...Rucchin, Rucinsky have played like crap and brought nothing? Hollweg>Hossa ON THE 4TH LINE FOR SURE. If this was a 2nd line discussion, Hossa in a heartbeat. Orr should have been in last night? And for sure, we did get outphysicalled and someone should have adressed the Brashear issue...and since no one did, Orr should definitley be in next Saturday to do so?


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 01-31-2006 at 09:32 PM.
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