By small area i mean a 2 hour drive i am not saying your going to have thousands of fans go to Brampton and Mississauga but there are some i am not saying it can't work i hope it does.
That was my confusion.
If your going by a two hour drive, then Ottawa and Montreal is a small area. Perhaps we need to rexamine that?
Within a two hour drive are a heck more then two teams. I dont know why you focused on Brampton and Mississauga, when in fact there are other teams closer to Hamilton, like Guelph and Kitchener.
I dont see why you would focus on the two negative teams, when within a two hour drive, there are a high amount of teams that are thriving, like Barrie, Guelph, London et all.
Last edited by Tigers1992: 02-28-2012 at 09:35 AM.
If your going by a two hour drive, then Ottawa and Montreal is a small area. Perhaps we need to rexamine that?
Within a two hour drive are a heck more then two teams. I dont know why you focused on Brampton and Mississauga, when in fact there are other teams closer to Hamilton, like Guelph and Kitchener.
I dont see why you would focus on the two negative teams, when within a two hour drive, there are a high amount of teams that are thriving, like Barrie, Guelph, London et all.
Yes Ottawa and Montreal is a small area in term of travel there are many people that make that drive daily and sports wise there are people that go from one city to the other to see a sporting event or even concert i even now some people in the east end of Ottawa is quicker for them to go to Montreal then it is to the scotia bank place.I am not really negative i have some concern right before Mississauga and Brampton got there teams some said they will be a huge success there will be a waiting list for tickets etc same talk with the Marlies now i am not saying that will happen in Hamilton but that is what i do bring up the other markets and the Marlies.
By small area i mean a 2 hour drive i am not saying your going to have thousands of fans go to Brampton and Mississauga but there are some i am not saying it can't work i hope it does.
There are over ten million people within a two hour drive of Hamilton.
There are over ten million people within a two hour drive of Hamilton.
Your argument is invalid.
Population does not mean every time it equals success don't get me wrong i hope Hamilton does well but to have around 10 million in a 2 hour drive does not mean each sports team is going to do good attendance wise.
I know what your saying Sir, but what your not doing is answering my question.
You made a statement that moving a team to Hamilton would put them in the backyard of two teams.
What teams are those? This is my third time trying to find out, and It seems like your avoiding the answer.
Im not fan of blanket general statements that dont make sense, so I want to be sure what two teams you where refering to before making that judgement.
There are no OHL franchises in, around, or adjacent to Hamilton's 'backyard'. It an untapped market who's last debacle of a franchise is a distant memory. A non-existent memory for a good chunk of the population would now be entering, or are well established, the OHL's demographics.
Last edited by Majik1987: 02-28-2012 at 02:44 PM.
Reason: don't comment on the poster
There are no OHL franchises in, around, or adjacent to Hamilton's 'backyard'. It an untapped market who's last debacle of a franchise is a distant memory. A non-existent memory for a good chunk of the population would now be entering, or are well established, the OHL's demographics.
I never said there were teams in Hamilton backyard what i did say was there are teams in a short distance and that is true i think some are taking it i don't think it will work in Hamilton i am not saying that all i am saying is there are a fair amount of teams in a short travel area by that i mean 2 hours.
Last edited by Majik1987: 02-28-2012 at 02:45 PM.
Reason: qe
I never said there were teams in Hamilton backyard what i did say was there are teams in a short distance and that is true i think some are taking it i don't think it will work in Hamilton i am not saying that all i am saying is there are a fair amount of teams in a short travel area by that i mean 2 hours.
And your more then entitled to your opinion, but the facts are that the population base can support it. There is no team within 50km of the team, and an IMMEDIATE population base of over 500,000 people. They sell out the Ticats, they can get over 8,000 fans for AHL games. The demand is there.
Im not sure what 2 hours has to do with anything to be honest. Its a number that you invented, not one that is relevant. The relevant numbers are the fact that all its neighbours do very well in attendance (Brampton and Mississauga are NOT neighbours) and that it has a population base that seems to enjoy the game.
Can it fail? Sure, junior hockey failed in Montreal, at one time professional hockey failed in Ottawa, but to stereotype a market because you don't like the GTA is not fair to that market, in my opinion.
I never said there were teams in Hamilton backyard what i did say was there are teams in a short distance and that is true i think some are taking it i don't think it will work in Hamilton i am not saying that all i am saying is there are a fair amount of teams in a short travel area by that i mean 2 hours.
I think the issue that alot of people have are that you using Brampton and Mississauga as some sort of barometer, yet ignoring the fact that Guelph, Kitchener, and other teams, that are CLOSER to Hamilton, are succeeding. Why are you ignoring the positive stories for the negative ones?
You may not know where Hamilton is, or who is closer to Hamilton?
And your more then entitled to your opinion, but the facts are that the population base can support it. There is no team within 50km of the team, and an IMMEDIATE population base of over 500,000 people. They sell out the Ticats, they can get over 8,000 fans for AHL games. The demand is there.
Im not sure what 2 hours has to do with anything to be honest. Its a number that you invented, not one that is relevant. The relevant numbers are the fact that all its neighbours do very well in attendance (Brampton and Mississauga are NOT neighbours) and that it has a population base that seems to enjoy the game.
Can it fail? Sure, junior hockey failed in Montreal, at one time professional hockey failed in Ottawa, but to stereotype a market because you don't like the GTA is not fair to that market, in my opinion.
I don't hate the gta in any way i more then likely will move there in the next few years don't get me wrong i hope Hamilton does very and yes your right i should not sterotype Hamilton as beeing the same as the gta support as for no knowing where Hamilton or anything around there is i have been to that area many times.
I don't hate the gta in any way i more then likely will move there in the next few years don't get me wrong i hope Hamilton does very and yes your right i should not sterotype Hamilton as beeing the same as the gta support as for no knowing where Hamilton or anything around there is i have been to that area many times.
Assuming that Hamilton will fail is just innacurate. Looking at its next closest competitors, there is actually more reason to believe that they will succeed, given that most teams around it are doing fairly well.
Assuming that Hamilton will fail is just innacurate. Looking at its next closest competitors, there is actually more reason to believe that they will succeed, given that most teams around it are doing fairly well.
Then why did the Hamilton Fincups...who later became the Steelhawks...fail? (Here's the answer: Hamilton management dithered about whether to stay in their rundown arena or build a new one; later, the question was whether to build a 5,000 seat arena or a 16,000 seat one to get in the running for the WHA.) For that matter, why did the Dukes of Hamilton fail as well? (Because they absolutely SUCKED!)
Your AHL track record is no better: 1 failure and another team that has more questions than the average game show.
Face the facts: Hamilton is a football city first and foremost.
Then why did the Hamilton Fincups...who later became the Steelhawks...fail? (Here's the answer: Hamilton management dithered about whether to stay in their rundown arena or build a new one; later, the question was whether to build a 5,000 seat arena or a 16,000 seat one to get in the running for the WHA.) For that matter, why did the Dukes of Hamilton fail as well? (Because they absolutely SUCKED!)
Your AHL track record is no better: 1 failure and another team that has more questions than the average game show.
Face the facts: Hamilton is a football city first and foremost.
The Bulldogs have an average of 5,000 a game. That is easily more then enough to sustain an OHL team.
I cant speak to previous teams, but the Dukes failed due to awful management. Thats not on the fans, thats on the team. Its like blaming Kingston fans for going out to Frontenac games. They have the passion, but the performance of the team has left them disillusioned. No difference in my mind between the two.
The only reason that the Bulldogs may leave is because the Canadians want a team closer to Laval, not because of an owner loosing money. The Owner sounds like he wants to keep the team there.
Regardless, the only reason i dipped my toe into the discussion is because a poster suggested that somehow Brampton and Mississauga's failures spell doom for Hamilton, when closer cities that are closer have a higher history of success.
It was, and still is flaued lagic to suggest that Brampton or Mississauga have any bairing on Hamilton, which is really my only point.
at the end of the day, having Majors and Brampton so close to each other hasnt worked and has to be resolved.
Hamilton minor hockey has been striving lately, and there are alot of good teams sprouting out in that area. Hamilton cant be worse than Mississauga. Hamilton's problem may be that they dont have a practical arena. I would assume that Copps is too big and thus too expensive to run. It would be cheaper for the team to run from a Logistics perspective than Erie. No crossing borders, shorter travel times to other teams, ability to allure more top notch GTA talent, are all positive factors for Hamilton over Erie.
It might make sense to move one of the Majors or Battalion to Aurora/Newmarket area, and thus they can draw from Richmond HIll, Markham, Keswick, Stouffville/Uxbridge areas. They would capture the 404 population, and Barrie is on the other side of Simcoe, and I dont think that any of their fans will be affected.
Then why did the Hamilton Fincups...who later became the Steelhawks...fail? (Here's the answer: Hamilton management dithered about whether to stay in their rundown arena or build a new one; later, the question was whether to build a 5,000 seat arena or a 16,000 seat one to get in the running for the WHA.)
Not entirely accurate. They left because there was literally nowhere in Hamilton for them to play. The Forum was condemned and demolished in 1977 and neighbourhood groups blocked the team from signing a long-term lease at Mountain Arena (which is in a residential area).
The Bulldogs have an average of 5,000 a game. That is easily more then enough to sustain an OHL team.
Since when?
I lived in Hamilton for 15 months between Sept 09 and Dec 10 and during that time went to about 10 or so Bulldogs games. I think maybe two of the times I went they had 5,000 MAYBE, most of the time it was around 2,500-3,000.
I know this doesnt mean much coming from a Brampton fan and those in glass houses etc etc but even if the Bulldogs did average 5,000 doesnt mean an OHL team will.
That being said who knows maybe 4th times the charm
I lived in Hamilton for 15 months between Sept 09 and Dec 10 and during that time went to about 10 or so Bulldogs games. I think maybe two of the times I went they had 5,000 MAYBE, most of the time it was around 2,500-3,000.
I know this doesnt mean much coming from a Brampton fan and those in glass houses etc etc but even if the Bulldogs did average 5,000 doesnt mean an OHL team will.
That being said who knows maybe 4th times the charm
Article in Toronto Sun indicates that Erie should forget about goingto Hamilton because of the 3-4 previous failures of OHL hockey.
Sherry Bassin seems to disagree.
History will tell you otherwise.
BTW, David Branch believes Erie's staying put and Hamilton isn't going to get a team. Also: Look about halfway in the article...Bassin's options may very well be limited...
Okay, serious question. I thought David Branch was commissioner of the CHL, but the link above (and other news articles) refer to him as commissioner of the OHL. Can someone fill me in on the command structure of Major Junior and it's three leagues?
Okay, serious question. I thought David Branch was commissioner of the CHL, but the link above (and other news articles) refer to him as commissioner of the OHL. Can someone fill me in on the command structure of Major Junior and it's three leagues?
Each of the three leagues has a commissioner voted in by the BOG, just like in the NHL. Branch is the OHL commissioner, and the other two are Gilles Courteau (Q) and Ron Robinson (W). The CHL as an organization is really nothing more than an alliance of the three major junior leagues - i.e. there isn't really a "CHL" in the way you would ordinarily think of a league, there is just an alliance of the O, Q and W. Dave Branch was elected CHL President to have one spokesman for junior hockey, but apart from promotion of junior hockey and awarding the Memorial Cup every year the CHL President has very few duties that aren't already contained within the job description of OHL commissioner.
Article in Toronto Sun indicates that Erie should forget about goingto Hamilton because of the 3-4 previous failures of OHL hockey.
Sherry Bassin seems to disagree.
The last "failure" was in the early '90s! A team that hosted the Memorial Cup but couldn't manage to even get an invite due to being completely inept at running a hockey team. Amazing a single person went through the turnstiles for that outfit.
OHL hockey is different now. Owners/ management understand that you can't just throw open the doors and expect people to show up. Using a Jeff Hunt/ Ottawa model -- and even some of the models in other large CHL markets - Hamilton would do well.
Someone turning 25 this year -- and entering a pretty big core demographic for ticket purchases -- would have been too young to even remember the Hamilton Dukes being in existence.
Article in Toronto Sun indicates that Erie should forget about goingto Hamilton because of the 3-4 previous failures of OHL hockey.
I count two. The Steelhawks and the Dukes failed. The Fincups/Red Wings franchise (same team, just got renamed in 1974) didn't fail. They moved because they had nowhere to play. The team was drawing well and making money when they moved.
My point is, I would support OHL over AHL or NHL... With OHL you have the players for 3-4 yrs then they move on. You dont have rich cocky players like the NHL does.. Lats time Hamilton had a team i was about 2-3 yrs old. I would support the team in a heart beat
I heard a rumour over the weekend from a few sources that the Majors have been sold, and they might be moving back to North Bay, and Battalion may become tenants of the Hershey Centre in the near future??
