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HOH Top 60 Defensemen List & Voting Record - Dennis Bonvie

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02-28-2012, 10:44 AM
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overpass
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HOH Top 60 Defensemen List & Voting Record - Dennis Bonvie

Dennis Bonvie
Rank Player
1 Bobby Orr
2 Eddie Shore
3 Doug Harvey
4 Ray Bourque
5 Denis Potvin
6 Nicklas Lidstrom
7 Red Kelly
8 Larry Robinson
9 Brad Park
10 Chris Chelios
11 Slava Fetisov
12 Earl Seibert
13 Pierre Pilote
14 Dit Clapper
15 Paul Coffey
16 King Clancy
17 Al MacInnis
18 Tim Horton
19 Brian Leetch
20 Rod Langway
21 Chris Pronger
22 Jacques Laperriere
23 Mark Howe
24 Bill Gadsby
25 Scott Stevens
26 Sprague Cleghorn
27 Guy Lapointe
28 Marcel Pronovost
29 Valeri Vasiliev
30 Borje Salming
31 Babe Siebert
32 Allan Stanley
33 Scott Niedermayer
34 Hod Stuart
35 Serge Savard
36 Carl Brewer
37 Bill Quackenbush
38 Zdeno Chara
39 Vladimir Lutchenko
40 Ching Johnson
41 Doug Wilson
42 Butch Bouchard
43 Rob Blake
44 Alexander Ragulin
45 Harvey Pulford
46 J.C. Tremblay
47 Larry Murphy
48 Jan Suchy
49 Vladimir Konstantinov
50 Pat Stapleton
51 Harry Howell
52 Sergei Gonchar
53 Frantisek Pospisil
54 Jack Stewart
55 Phil Housley
56 Brad McCrimmon
57 George Boucher
58 Lennart Svedberg
59 Ken Reardon
60 Fern Flaman
61 Viktor Kuzkin
62 Bill White
63 Eddie Gerard
64 Lionel Conacher
65 Eric Desjardins
66 Ebbie Goodfellow
67 Sergei Zubov
68 Lester Patrick
69 Sylvio Mantha
70 Jim Schoenfeld
71 Alexei Kasatonov
72 Duncan Keith
73 Art Coulter
74 Ted Green
75 Gary Suter
76 Babe Pratt
77 Derian Hatcher
78 Teppo Numminen
79 Brian Rafalski
80 Gus Mortson

Players from the Top 60 not to appear on this list
Moose Johnson
Tom Johnson
Harry Cameron

Players ranked highest overall on this list
Earl Seibert (12)
Rod Langway (20)
Jacques Laperriere (22)
Marcel Pronovost (28)
Allan Stanley (32)
Carl Brewer (36)
Vladimir Lutchenko (39)
Doug Wilson (41)
Pat Stapleton (50)
Sergei Gonchar (52)

Players ranked lowest overall on this list
None

Players unique to this list
Jim Schoenfeld (70)

Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1Bobby OrrEddie ShoreDoug HarveyRay BourqueDennis PotvinNick LidstromRed KellyLarry RobinsonViacheslav FetisovChris Chelios
Vote 2Denis PotvinRed KellyLarry RobinsonViacheslav FetisovBrad ParkChris CheliosPierre PilotePaul CoffeyAl MacInnisKing Clancy
Vote 3Brad ParkEarl SeibertPierre PiloteKing ClancyAl McInnisPaul CoffeyBrian LeetchChris ProngerTim HortonScott Stevens
Vote 4Earl SeibertDit ClapperAl MacGinnisBrian LeetchTim HortonChris ProngerScott StevensBill GadsbyBorje SalmingValery Vasiliev
Vote 5ClapperLeetchGadsbyLangwayHoweSalmingLapointeVasilievQuackenbushNiedermayer
Vote 6Rod LangwayMark HoweMarcel PronovostJacques LaperriereBill QuackenbushGuy LapointeScott NiedermayerEddie GerardJack StewartSerge Savard
Vote 7Marcel PronovostJacques LaperriereGuy LapointeScott NiedermayerJack StewartCarl BrewerZdeno CharaEbbie GoodfellowAlexei KasatonovButch Bouchard
Vote 8Jacques LaperriereHod StuartJan SuchyCarl BrewerAlexei KasatonovZdeno CharaChing JohnsonEbbie GoodfellowRob BlakeMoose Johnson
Vote 9Babe SeibertJan SuchyCarl BrewerZdeno CharaMoose JohnsonEbbie GoodfellowRob BlakeKen ReardonButch BouchardDoug Wilson
Vote 10Babe SiebertJan SuchyCarl BrewerGeorges BoucherHarry CameronKen ReardonDoug WilsonAllan StanleyLarry MurphyFern Flaman
Vote 11Ken ReardonHarry CameronDoug WilsonAllan StanleyHarvey PulfordArt CoulterAlexander RagulinVladimir KonstantinovPat StapletonHarry Howell
Vote 12Harry CameronAllan StanleyFrantisek PospisilVladimir LutchenkoVladimir KonstantinovHarvey PulfordPat StapletonSylvio ManthaAlexander RagulinHarry Howell


Last edited by overpass: 02-28-2012 at 04:12 PM. Reason: formatting
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02-28-2012, 11:04 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Dennis was a big advocate for Langway, Laperriere, Stanley, Brewer, and Wilson, so no surprise to see them all highly ranked. Even if I don't agree with all the rankings, I like that - he ranked them highly, but then backed it up with arguments during Round 2.

I find it very interesting that you ranked Stanley over Brewer, considering that seems to go against consensus.

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02-28-2012, 04:00 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Dennis was a big advocate for Langway, Laperriere, Stanley, Brewer, and Wilson, so no surprise to see them all highly ranked. Even if I don't agree with all the rankings, I like that - he ranked them highly, but then backed it up with arguments during Round 2.

I find it very interesting that you ranked Stanley over Brewer, considering that seems to go against consensus.
I think they were fairly comparable players, but I gave the edge to Stanley because his NHL career was so much longer.

I looked at Horton, Stanley and Brewer as an earlier era Robinson, Savard and Lapointe. Stanley would be their Savard, but the biggest difference would be in the physical play of Brewer & Horton, rather than the offensive difference. Stanley actaully was more productive than Brewer and on a par with Horton.

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02-28-2012, 04:11 PM
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This list is probably he one Ive seen that would most match my own, save for the position of Langway.

No way would I have Langway above Stevens, Pronger and Howe.

Also, while I'm a big McCrimmon fan, (see profile pic) I wouldn't have him above Desjardins.

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02-28-2012, 04:22 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
This list is probably he one Ive seen that would most match my own, save for the position of Langway.

No way would I have Langway above Stevens, Pronger and Howe.

Also, while I'm a big McCrimmon fan, (see profile pic) I wouldn't have him above Desjardins.
I can understand that.

I consider both McCrimmon and Langway guys that seemed to bring more to the table (and their teams) than just their play. They seemed to almost will defensive responsibilty to the rest of their teammates that were on the ice with them.

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02-28-2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
I can understand that.

I consider both McCrimmon and Langway guys that seemed to bring more to the table (and their teams) than just their play. They seemed to almost will defensive responsibilty to the rest of their teammates that were on the ice with them.
Biggest reason I can't have McCrimmon over Desjardins is the roles they played on their teams.

McCrimmon never had to be "the guy" he always was able to slot into a 2/3 role with Bourque, Howe, MacInnis, etc. playing the lead role.

Desjardins wad the #1 guy for the Flyers for a decade, often carrying defenses that lacked a legit #2 and.sometimes even a #3 defenseman.

Carrying a team, being the #1 power play and penalty kill defenseman, shutdown defenseman and leading point producer, while paired with Chris Therein is far more taxing than playing next to Mark Howe, Lidstrom, etc.


As for Langway vs. Stevens, Pronger and Howe, I won't go too in depth, because most know my feelings, but quickly:

Pronger and Stevens both have massive playoff advantages over Langway, not to mention their offense.

As far as Howe and Langway, there was a much larger gap offensively than there was defensively.

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02-28-2012, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Biggest reason I can't have McCrimmon over Desjardins is the roles they played on their teams.

McCrimmon never had to be "the guy" he always was able to slot into a 2/3 role with Bourque, Howe, MacInnis, etc. playing the lead role.

Desjardins wad the #1 guy for the Flyers for a decade, often carrying defenses that lacked a legit #2 and.sometimes even a #3 defenseman.

Carrying a team, being the #1 power play and penalty kill defenseman, shutdown defenseman and leading point producer, while paired with Chris Therein is far more taxing than playing next to Mark Howe, Lidstrom, etc.
I ranked Desjardins pretty highly myself - your description of him is dead on - he was far better than the rest of the Flyers defense. When he was off the ice, the team was much easier to play against.

I was a little disappointed Desjardins' name didn't come up for a vote. I doubt he's top 60, but I would have liked to have discussed him. Better player in my opinion than either Zubov or Housley, both of whom did come up for vote.

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02-28-2012, 04:38 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Biggest reason I can't have McCrimmon over Desjardins is the roles they played on their teams.

McCrimmon never had to be "the guy" he always was able to slot into a 2/3 role with Bourque, Howe, MacInnis, etc. playing the lead role.

Desjardins wad the #1 guy for the Flyers for a decade, often carrying defenses that lacked a legit #2 and.sometimes even a #3 defenseman.

Carrying a team, being the #1 power play and penalty kill defenseman, shutdown defenseman and leading point producer, while paired with Chris Therein is far more taxing than playing next to Mark Howe, Lidstrom, etc.
As for Langway vs. Stevens, Pronger and Howe, I won't go too in depth, because most know my feelings, but quickly:

Pronger and Stevens both have massive playoff advantages over Langway, not to mention their offense.

As far as Howe and Langway, there was a much larger gap offensively than there was defensively.
Yep, point well taken.

If either did come up in round 2, looks like I could have been easily swayed to switch them up.

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02-28-2012, 07:19 PM
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Desjardins is a guy who I'm starting to think has been underrated across the board (by fans, media, historians, etc.) and might be worth taking a closer look at. He wasn't in my top 80 but he absolutely wouldn't have been out of place there at all.

Besides playing a big role on a Stanley Cup champion (that was by no means an overwhelmingly strong team either), as mentioned he was a #1 guy on a team that was routinely week defensively (and in goal, it should be said).

He'd be a great player to spend some time on when this project gets re-visited in the future.

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02-28-2012, 10:03 PM
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Desjardins is a guy who I'm starting to think has been underrated across the board (by fans, media, historians, etc.) and might be worth taking a closer look at. He wasn't in my top 80 but he absolutely wouldn't have been out of place there at all.

Besides playing a big role on a Stanley Cup champion (that was by no means an overwhelmingly strong team either), as mentioned he was a #1 guy on a team that was routinely week defensively (and in goal, it should be said).

He'd be a great player to spend some time on when this project gets re-visited in the future.
Desjardins suffers a bit from the Larry Murphy syndrome, as a pretty good player but lacked the WOW factor.

I had him 59th but can see why he might have dropped.

Also Roy was far and away the biggest factor in that Habs Cup win in 93.

The defensive Corps of that Cup winner might possibly be one of the worst of all time IMO.

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02-28-2012, 10:07 PM
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Desjardins suffers a bit from the Larry Murphy syndrome, as a pretty good player but lacked the WOW factor.

I had him 59th but can see why he might have dropped.

Also Roy was far and away the biggest factor in that Habs Cup win in 93.

The defensive Corps of that Cup winner might possibly be one of the worst of all time IMO.
Oh believe me, I wasn't trying to give Desjardins a huge amount of credit for that Cup win, only pointing out it's not like he won a Cup on the 3rd pairing of the 2002 Detroit Red Wings or something.

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02-28-2012, 10:15 PM
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Rob Scuderi
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By no means am I trying to grill you on #80, but I'm wondering if this list is the only one that features Gus Mortson and not Jimmy Thomson, his defensive partner who seems more highly regarded.

Was this more an issue of rounding out the list than anything else, or did you feel there something in Mortson to supplant Thomson? I'll be honest the fact that I picked Mortson in the ATD is what has keyed me on this so I'm just genuinely curious.

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02-29-2012, 05:28 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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By no means am I trying to grill you on #80, but I'm wondering if this list is the only one that features Gus Mortson and not Jimmy Thomson, his defensive partner who seems more highly regarded.

Was this more an issue of rounding out the list than anything else, or did you feel there something in Mortson to supplant Thomson? I'll be honest the fact that I picked Mortson in the ATD is what has keyed me on this so I'm just genuinely curious.
Probably the fact that he was a first team all-star in the same season that Red Kelly was a second team all-star.

Also, I liked the idea that he was apparently a real tough guy (in the era of Howe, Lindsay, Richard, etc.) playing on a top pairing for a championship team.

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02-29-2012, 10:09 PM
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Rob Scuderi
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Probably the fact that he was a first team all-star in the same season that Red Kelly was a second team all-star.

Also, I liked the idea that he was apparently a real tough guy (in the era of Howe, Lindsay, Richard, etc.) playing on a top pairing for a championship team.
Gotcha, appreciate the response. You're definitely spot on though with his toughness. He and Howe got into it so badly during an all-star game that after their fight they sat the rest of the games on their respective benches under police supervision. His battles with Lindsay were also pretty interesting to read, they were also best friends off the ice, but it didn't stop them from going at it.

If you're interested here's the compilation of the info I found on him. About halfway down is where I listed the stuff about his battles with the stars of his era.

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03-01-2012, 05:59 PM
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Dennis Bonvie
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Gotcha, appreciate the response. You're definitely spot on though with his toughness. He and Howe got into it so badly during an all-star game that after their fight they sat the rest of the games on their respective benches under police supervision. His battles with Lindsay were also pretty interesting to read, they were also best friends off the ice, but it didn't stop them from going at it.

If you're interested here's the compilation of the info I found on him. About halfway down is where I listed the stuff about his battles with the stars of his era.
Cool stuff!

Thanks.

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