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Habs play ridiculous game, win, 5-4 in shootout

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:04 PM
  #151
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Poulet Kostopoulos View Post
Making mistakes is one thing but totally failed coverage and confusing and unstructured defense is another. It is in the coaching to teach and emphasize the later. There is a reason why their PK is still excellent but then failed miserably during the 6-on-5 and it's not because players just make more mistakes in the latter scenario. Also, why do you play Eller on the PK but then you don't see him for the 6-on-5?!

Unrelated: About Plek, he can't play good defense for White.
Oh, I totally hear you. But realize that the culprits defensively (that I really notice) are Bourque, Kaberle, and Campoli, and they're this year's new additions. Weber isn't very strong in front of the net, and makes some questionable plays with the puck, but at least I very rarely see him far from where he "should" be at any given time.

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03-01-2012, 10:06 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by EllertoKostitsynGoal View Post
Behindthenet.ca

Go to Statistics >>> Player breakdown

You can ask me if there is something you don't understand, I'll try to help.
thanks mate, bookmarked...this is great source for hf ownage. ;]

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03-01-2012, 10:16 PM
  #153
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Aberration, put him in DD's spot he has 60+ points by now. Not knocking DD but he is still learning and improving too imo.

I will take his previous years of solid two way play over this one year where has had a revolving door of weaker wingers which inevitably means more time spent in the d-zone. Not to say he has not struggled at times but I am not concerned.

What happened to Diaz anyways? Why is Campoli playing ahead of him?
plek had DD spot and didn't take advantage of it. DD has earned it and should keep it over plek. If plek stays with the team, find him some wingers for a good second line

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03-01-2012, 10:16 PM
  #154
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cool stats but i dont like using the "luck" reasoning. Many things factor in. Maybe he is giving up better scoring chances instead of shots? Guys like Gorges and Subban who face the same tough challenges Pleks does are not even in the same realm as Pleks in +/-. There is almost no one else on the team even close aside from the pillsbury dough boy.

I dont think its all Pleks fault but his effort level has definitely dipped this year. He is cheating. He losing pucks battles consistently. I dont think the stat is indicative of his play completely but i dont think "bad luck" absolves him of it either.
I think Gorges and Subban have the luxury of lining up behind Max-DD-Cole most of the time (I mean, the forward line and defensive pairing that get used the most probably end up playing together the most, right?), but I could obviously be proven wrong with some shift chart study. Pleks and the defensive left-overs get sent out a lot after Cunneyworth blows his top 5 player load, from what I see, although kind of surprisingly I think it was Gorges/Subban on for that 3rd period goal tonight (thanks again for cluelessness, Bourque).

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03-01-2012, 10:19 PM
  #155
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All that Plekanec's +/- means is that this team sucks. +/- is a worthless stat without context, the context is that this team cannot shut anyone down. It's hard to blame it on one particularly person, obviously the Campoli-Kaberle tank defense and weak decision making from some of the grinders is a primary problem but a lot of it can be directly blamed on the tactics.

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:19 PM
  #156
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I was at the game as soon as the nanana heyyy goodbye were chant at 12.09 of the 3rd , I Hoped Karma would kick them in the butt , OH boy was I right!

Awesome Game

My love for emelin is growing each game !

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03-01-2012, 10:20 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
cool stats but i dont like using the "luck" reasoning. Many things factor in. Maybe he is giving up better scoring chances instead of shots? Guys like Gorges and Subban who face the same tough challenges Pleks does are not even in the same realm as Pleks in +/-. There is almost no one else on the team even close aside from the pillsbury dough boy.

I dont think its all Pleks fault but his effort level has definitely dipped this year. He is cheating. He losing pucks battles consistently. I dont think the stat is indicative of his play completely but i dont think "bad luck" absolves him of it either.
Usually, over a big sample, scoring chances/shots rate tends to get lost in the noise. Teams who give up lots of shots will give up lots of scoring chances and teams that give up few shots will give up few scoring chances.

And I don't think his effort level has dipped has much as he's been overwhelmed. He's doing a brutal job right now. Some people tend to associate gritty third/fourth line type with shutdown line but in reality the guys who actually have the ability to drive possession against those lines are usually 1rst/2nd liners so he has to carry guys who should be playing against 4th/3rd liners against 1rst liner.

Also, sometimes it's easy to just look at the raw numbers and get a narrative going. Then you notice all the small mistakes you wouldn't notice other players doing. Kind of like how everyone was after Subban when he was actually doing just fine overall.
But just to make my point.

Mike Blunden : on ice SV% 0.926%
Yannick Weber: on ice SV% 0.919%

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:20 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by GeneralManager View Post
cunneyworth is such a terrible coach. haha

appreciate gauthier hiring someone as useless as him.
he's a COACH who isn't ready to be a coach. I think he will be a good coach in a few yrs. People on here make me laugh. I come on here to get a huge laugh..mostly people like you and young gun

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03-01-2012, 10:23 PM
  #159
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Haha i started playing skyrim when there was 4 minutes left i came back and i saw the shootout.

I was like WTF? Old game or did they just manage to blow up a 3 goals lead.


Haha wtf seriously never stop watching the habs even if there is 2 minutes left if they have the lead.

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:23 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Oh, I totally hear you. But realize that the culprits defensively (that I really notice) are Bourque, Kaberle, and Campoli, and they're this year's new additions. Weber isn't very strong in front of the net, and makes some questionable plays with the puck, but at least I very rarely see him far from where he "should" be at any given time.
No one is strong in front of the net except for Gorges and PK most of the time but even he has lapses. Emelin just pushes people (usually onto price or over him), never ties them up or anything. It's retarded to watch, and the fly by's of the net in their own end, it is pathetic. LOL worthy was seeing Staubitz on the PK, a whole lot of facepalm on that. I guess you take the little things guys did for granted until you see crap like this.

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03-01-2012, 10:23 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
plek had DD spot and didn't take advantage of it. DD has earned it and should keep it over plek. If plek stays with the team, find him some wingers for a good second line
Pffft! Let's just pretend like it's possible to throw out the last 6 seasons of Plekanec's career here, to give you the strongest possible standpoint to debate this point. Even then, Plekanec started off the season with 20 points in the first 20 games this year. Yes, that's even a higher PPG than DD's 28 in 29 games! He was literally the PPG player we've been waiting so long for.

You'll notice that right away, DD was put with the bigger wingers we had around (did well with Max and A.Kost, if you don't remember, before ending up with Max and Cole), and that's when Plekanec found himself part of the smurf line (with Cammy and Gionta) that they didn't want to insert DD into. Cammy gets traded, Gionta gets hurt, and who has Pleks ended up with as a result? Not even A.Kost, who played with Eller and Moen the most before being traded. They could have gone with Max-Pleks-Cole for more than just 35 mins of TOI, but how much praise for DD do you think we'd be doing if he was put on a line with Cammalleri and Gionta from the start of the year?

Long story short, your sentence that I bolded is just plain wrong. Sorry. DD has only played with Cammy/MaxPac as LW, and only Cole/A.Kost as RW - our biggest (not Cammy, obviously)/best (well, should have been Cammy, lol) wingers. Pleks, on the other hand, has had to play with everyone else as a result of having to hide DD's size in the lineup, and not being willing/comfortable enough to promote Eller to 2nd line responsibilities behind Plekanec.

Good on DD for making the most of the opportunity, but he only has the opportunity because Eller was deemed not ready for 2nd line duties (especially if that meant DD would have to take on the 3rd line checking duties instead, lol), and DD's lack of size down the middle requires the presence of wingers like MaxPac and Cole. Oh, and none of this might have even come to pass if Gomez didn't suck so bad, leaving DD as the next most ready centre we had.


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 03-01-2012 at 10:49 PM.
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Old
03-01-2012, 10:30 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
cool stats but i dont like using the "luck" reasoning. Many things factor in. Maybe he is giving up better scoring chances instead of shots? Guys like Gorges and Subban who face the same tough challenges Pleks does are not even in the same realm as Pleks in +/-. There is almost no one else on the team even close aside from the pillsbury dough boy.

I dont think its all Pleks fault but his effort level has definitely dipped this year. He is cheating. He losing pucks battles consistently. I dont think the stat is indicative of his play completely but i dont think "bad luck" absolves him of it either.
Oliver tracks scoring chances for the habs at his site. http://enattendantlesnordiques.blogspot.com/

Plekanec's scoring chances data doesn't look any worse than his shot total. Which makes sense, years of statistical study has shown that individual skaters basically have no control over the save percentage of their goaltender, although the jury is still out on an overall team's ability to help their goalie. Defense in the NHL for skaters largely comes down to preventing shots against. What the save percentage is tends to be random.

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:31 PM
  #163
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Emelin is our first 200 hit guy since 07 Komo!

YAYYY

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:34 PM
  #164
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Why we all hate on our decent players in such an abysmal season?

DD is a nice player, put in a position to succeed (matchups, wingers, pp, ice time) and is doing so. If necessary he could move to the wing and still be the creator he is. Fun kid to watch.

Plex is still a useful player who is having a down season, burdened with unsuitable wingers and dubious coaching. He will have better wingers and coaching next year, not thrust into the d-forward only role.

Plenty of other chumps to hate on in this org...

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03-01-2012, 10:36 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Pffft! Let's just pretend like it's possible to throw out the last 6 seasons of Plekanec's career here, to give you the strongest possible standpoint to debate this point. Even then, Plekanec started off the season with 20 points in the first 20 games this year. Yes, that's even a higher PPG than DD's 28 in 29 games!

You'll notice that right away, DD was put with the bigger wingers we had around (did well with Max and A.Kost, if you don't remember, before ending up with Max and Cole), and that's when Plekanec found himself part of the smurf line (with Cammy and Gionta) that they didn't want to insert DD into. Cammy gets traded, Gionta gets hurt, and who has Pleks ended up with as a result? Not even A.Kost, who played with Eller and Moen the most before being traded. They could have gone with Max-Pleks-Cole for more than just 35 mins of TOI, but how much praise for DD do you think we'd be doing if he was put on a line with Cammalleri and Gionta from the start of the year?

Long story short, your sentence that I bolded is just plain wrong. Sorry. DD has only played with Cammy/MaxPac as LW, and only Cole/A.Kost as RW - our biggest (not Cammy, obviously)/best (well, should have been Cammy, lol) wingers. Pleks, on the other hand, has had to play with everyone else as a result of having to hide DD's size in the lineup, and not being willing/comfortable enough to promote Eller to 2nd line responsibilities behind Plekanec.
Why do you even take time to answer him. He's clueless and just here to stir ****. When DD gets in a slump, he'll be the first to call DD too small etc etc...

What you said above is all true but he will just ignore it completely and comeback with something like: "Plekanec is lazy" or "he plays like a girl, he said it".

There are people that you can argue with but guys like YG or Patofqc, might aswell put them in your ignore list. You cannot have a real conversation with them. I never use the ignore function before these two trolls.

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03-01-2012, 10:39 PM
  #166
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Why do you even take time to answer him. He's clueless and just here to stir ****. When DD gets in a slump, he'll be the first to call DD too small etc etc...

What you said above is all true but he will just ignore it completely and comeback with something like: "Plekanec is lazy" or "he plays like a girl, he said it".

There are people that you can argue with but guys like YG or Patofqc, might aswell put them in your ignore list. You cannot have a real conversation with them. I never use the ignore function before these two trolls.
Funny thing is, we all tried arguing with them first But IL is such a beautiful thing

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03-01-2012, 10:44 PM
  #167
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Funny thing is, we all tried arguing with them first But IL is such a beautiful thing
Yep. Its great but not perfect. It sucks that we can still see their posts when other posters quote them. Would be perfect if their posts are completely invisible.

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:45 PM
  #168
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This is a message to Fel 96.

Can you record each hits Emelin does in a game? When I miss a game, I'm trying to see his hits but I can't. (Except the big ones). I know Peters came for him, and except the hit he missed that putted Cole on his ass, I want to see if he tried to unleash on someone else but I can't see!!

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:48 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by blueinmtl View Post
Why we all hate on our decent players in such an abysmal season?

DD is a nice player, put in a position to succeed (matchups, wingers, pp, ice time) and is doing so. If necessary he could move to the wing and still be the creator he is. Fun kid to watch.

Plex is still a useful player who is having a down season, burdened with unsuitable wingers and dubious coaching. He will have better wingers and coaching next year, not thrust into the d-forward only role.

Plenty of other chumps to hate on in this org...
It takes energy to like more than 4 players though, the only option is to hate the others, and hope they're traded somewhere else.

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03-01-2012, 10:49 PM
  #170
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Got free tickets so going to the game... hopefully no tank tonight.
I'm now 2-0 when I go to Habs games at the Bell Centre.

Awesome game (even the shootout was a bonus). I'll tell you one thing... Subban and Desharnais are extremely good hockey players and we are extremely lucky to have them.

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03-01-2012, 10:51 PM
  #171
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Usually, over a big sample, scoring chances/shots rate tends to get lost in the noise. Teams who give up lots of shots will give up lots of scoring chances and teams that give up few shots will give up few scoring chances.

And I don't think his effort level has dipped has much as he's been overwhelmed. He's doing a brutal job right now. Some people tend to associate gritty third/fourth line type with shutdown line but in reality the guys who actually have the ability to drive possession against those lines are usually 1rst/2nd liners so he has to carry guys who should be playing against 4th/3rd liners against 1rst liner.

Also, sometimes it's easy to just look at the raw numbers and get a narrative going. Then you notice all the small mistakes you wouldn't notice other players doing. Kind of like how everyone was after Subban when he was actually doing just fine overall.
But just to make my point.

Mike Blunden : on ice SV% 0.926%
Yannick Weber: on ice SV% 0.919%
Its tough with all these stats tho no matter what. We arent factoring quality of opponent when Blunden is on the ice compared to Pleks. We arent factoring in quality of shot. Like i said, i dont think its indicative of his play, more he isnt winning the defensive battle against top opposition so you might as well put him back in his regular role with more offensive players. At least he may be able to drive the offense which will in turn help his defense. Right now how he is used its purely defensive especially with his linemates. He doesnt even get a chance to be a two way forward thus they are just getting beaten down against the opposition. Its basically dump the puck in, retreat, defensive shell. Repeat. And Pleks is getting burned because of this. He is average in the faceoff circle and in general weak along the boards, in front of the net, and poor on puck battles. Really it makes little sense that you would have him as a defensive forward playing with scrubs. Thats not a knock on Pleks, its coaching and management who have failed to bring in the right compliment of players

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03-01-2012, 10:56 PM
  #172
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I'm now 2-0 when I go to Habs games at the Bell Centre.

Awesome game (even the shootout was a bonus). I'll tell you one thing... Subban and Desharnais are extremely good hockey players and we are extremely lucky to have them.
MaxPac too

Obviously....

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Old
03-01-2012, 10:59 PM
  #173
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he's a COACH who isn't ready to be a coach. I think he will be a good coach in a few yrs. People on here make me laugh. I come on here to get a huge laugh..mostly people like you and young gun
LOL @ you putting me in the same sentence as young gun and then insinuating that Cunneyworth isn't terrible. BASED ON WHAT?! The life span of an NHL coach is extremely small if you do nothing but fail in your first stint. IF Cunneyworth has 'potential' Gauthier pretty much tarnished his future career, who in the NHL will trust him? He's going to go back to square one and have to re-build his career...which means AHL and assistant job positions for a long time.

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03-01-2012, 11:01 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
I'm now 2-0 when I go to Habs games at the Bell Centre.

Awesome game (even the shootout was a bonus). I'll tell you one thing... Subban and Desharnais are extremely good hockey players and we are extremely lucky to have them.
This. I love all our young players. They're the only reason to watch anymore.

DD, Price, Pax, Eller, Subban. Might make up an impressive core one day.

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03-01-2012, 11:02 PM
  #175
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Emelin is our first 200 hit guy since 07 Komo!

YAYYY
Was number 200 the one on Cole?

BTW is there any interviews on Cole and perhaps Emelin commenting on the play? I want to hear it.

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