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The Fail is ON! (the 2012 draft thread)

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:29 AM
  #76
TheBigKahuna
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I'm still confident the Canes will pick in the top 4 or 5. And hopefully someone above them, takes a d-man or two!

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03-02-2012, 06:35 AM
  #77
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
I'm still confident the Canes will pick in the top 4 or 5. And hopefully someone above them, takes a d-man or two!
I would think that Edmonton and the NYI would likely take a d-man if they pick before Carolina.

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03-02-2012, 07:40 AM
  #78
TheBigKahuna
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And even if the Canes pick 5th, and 2 d-men are gone by that time, the Canes are still going to get to choose a great prospect.

Doesn't mean they'll pan out, but at least you get a shot!

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03-02-2012, 08:11 AM
  #79
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by TheBigKahuna View Post
And even if the Canes pick 5th, and 2 d-men are gone by that time, the Canes are still going to get to choose a great prospect.

Doesn't mean they'll pan out, but at least you get a shot!
One thing that will probably come into play in terms of the Canes draft position is the number of away games left. They have more away games (12) than any other team in the league. Oilers have 10, MTL has 10, NYI has 10, Ducks have 9, Tampa has 8, Minn has 7, Toronto has 10, Calgary has 7.

The Canes away record is only 7-14-8 this year. Even if I only look only at the January/February stretch, the Canes got 18 points in 12 games at home and 10 points in 10 games on the road.

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03-02-2012, 10:09 AM
  #80
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I'm kinda struggling with this draft, either through a lack of knowledge or just not being overly impressed. Seems like defense will be the best option in the 5-8 range we are likely in. That's not our bag.

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03-02-2012, 11:26 AM
  #81
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Is it correct that we have 2 2nds and 3 4ths this year?

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03-02-2012, 11:27 AM
  #82
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Trade the first rounder + for a "top flight forward" ala columbus. Hopefully they don't cry like carter and want a trade.

This years draft is full of Dmen, of which we don't need and the forwards are not that great. Yakupov is the only certain nhler while grigorenko has laziness issues and only showing up against bad teams. Don't know much about forsberg because he plays in sweden

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03-02-2012, 12:16 PM
  #83
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by Gr8Dan View Post
Trade the first rounder + for a "top flight forward" ala columbus. Hopefully they don't cry like carter and want a trade.

This years draft is full of Dmen, of which we don't need and the forwards are not that great. Yakupov is the only certain nhler while grigorenko has laziness issues and only showing up against bad teams. Don't know much about forsberg because he plays in sweden
While I agree getting a proven commodity at forward for a pick+ would be nice, those deals don't come around too often, unless there is someone "on the outs" so to speak. Are there some guys who might be good candidates for a trade like that?

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03-02-2012, 12:16 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by dammit100 View Post
Is it correct that we have 2 2nds and 3 4ths this year?
Yes. We have a pick in every round, plus an extra 2nd and two extra 4ths.

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03-02-2012, 12:34 PM
  #85
Boom Boom Anton
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Here's McKenzie's top 10 as of February.

1. Yakupov - F
2. Grigorenko - F
3. Murray - D
4. Forsberg - F
5. Dumba - D
6. Trouba - D
7. Galchenyuk - F
8. Rielly - D
9. Reinhart - D
10. Faksa - F

Given the way the Canes follow past trends, wouldn't surprise me at all if they take Faksa even if they are picking at #5.

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03-02-2012, 12:41 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Here's McKenzie's top 10 as of February.

1. Yakupov - F
2. Grigorenko - F
3. Murray - D
4. Forsberg - F
5. Dumba - D
6. Trouba - D
7. Galchenyuk - F
8. Rielly - D
9. Reinhart - D
10. Faksa - F

Given the way the Canes follow past trends, wouldn't surprise me at all if they take Faksa even if they are picking at #5.
I'd honestly be okay with any of the forwards off that list. We're good (unless there's a giant dose of the typical fail) at defense. As far as that list goes, I don't think there is a wrong choice among Yakupov, Grigorenko, Forsberg, Galchenyuk, or Faksa. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses, and it's up to JR/Francis to determine what they feel is needed the most for this team going forward.

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03-02-2012, 12:41 PM
  #87
WhiteTrashAmerican
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Here's McKenzie's top 10 as of February.

1. Yakupov - F
2. Grigorenko - F
3. Murray - D
4. Forsberg - F
5. Dumba - D
6. Trouba - D
7. Galchenyuk - F
8. Rielly - D
9. Reinhart - D
10. Faksa - F

Given the way the Canes follow past trends, wouldn't surprise me at all if they take Faksa even if they are picking at #5.
We won't take Grigorenko, even if we pick number 2 overall. Same for Galchenyuk. That leaves Faksa and Forsberg. I would bet anything we pick Faksa.

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03-02-2012, 12:42 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dammit100 View Post
Is it correct that we have 2 2nds and 3 4ths this year?
Yup, we have San Jose's second and the 4th's of Boston and New Jersey.

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03-02-2012, 01:03 PM
  #89
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
We won't take Grigorenko, even if we pick number 2 overall. Same for Galchenyuk. That leaves Faksa and Forsberg. I would bet anything we pick Faksa.
While I agree they'll probably take Faksa, Galcheyuk is a bit different than Grigorenko. Galchenyuk was born in Milwaukee, WI and lived in the US, Russia and other European countries following his father's playing career. His family moved him over to Chicago to play his first JR. hockey in Chicago and he chose to play for Team USA as opposed to Russia.

I'm not saying JR will draft him, but he is a bit different than a typical Russian prospect that JR stays away from.

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03-02-2012, 01:38 PM
  #90
bleedgreen
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I just want us to take the bpa. I don't care if it's a dman. We don't have a lot of high end talent at any position, so just because we have a number of d prospects coming I don't think we should back off d at all. None of our prospects back there look to be sure top pairing guys. Murphy isnt a top pairing guy at this point, more of a specialist player. I would agree the need is just as big if not bigger up front I just think if the next stud d comes out of this draft I'd just as soon have that. None of these forwards look like top line talent other than nail, to this point IMO. I'm glad we won't have number two, cause this ones a crap shoot. We'll just have the best of what's left. As long as its not off the board it's a solid choice.

Grigorenko scares me a bit, really awkward skater for such a tall fella. I like galchenyuk over him, and likely over forsberg as well though I haven't seen much of forsberg. Don't know if we'd take a euro forward, even one already over here though it increases the chance. Maybe galchenyuk since he is born here.

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03-02-2012, 01:45 PM
  #91
Anton Dubinchuk
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
I just want us to take the bpa. I don't care if it's a dman. We don't have a lot of high end talent at any position, so just because we have a number of d prospects coming I don't think we should back off d at all. None of our prospects back there look to be sure top pairing guys. Murphy isnt a top pairing guy at this point, more of a specialist player. I would agree the need is just as big if not bigger up front I just think if the next stud d comes out of this draft I'd just as soon have that. None of these forwards look like top line talent other than nail, to this point IMO. I'm glad we won't have number two, cause this ones a crap shoot. We'll just have the best of what's left. As long as its not off the board it's a solid choice.

Grigorenko scares me a bit, really awkward skater for such a tall fella. I like galchenyuk over him, and likely over forsberg as well though I haven't seen much of forsberg. Don't know if we'd take a euro forward, even one already over here though it increases the chance. Maybe galchenyuk since he is born here.
Point understood but disagreed. At this point we've got SO much young D talent coming up the pipeline, and while the top-end talent probably isn't there we've got several future NHLers in our system. At forward, meanwhile, the future top 6ers are simply not there. Dalpe, maybe, Bowman and Boychuk probably not, and Samson probably not for us. I know we've got a couple of young forwards in Skinner and Tlusty that are playing well in the top 6, but I think the need there is enough to pass over the BPA in order to actually gain some scoring ability.

This also could have to do with the fact that I DON'T think the next great Dman is in this draft, but if the Canes draft a Dman in the 1st round I'll be pretty disappointed. That being said, history's certainly on my side, and I think JR, despite being seemingly unable to do anything about it, understands the need at winger is there. I'm not worried about drafting a Dman in the top 10.

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03-02-2012, 01:47 PM
  #92
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As worried as I was about drafting Galchenyuk a couple of months ago, I really think he's the best player likely in our range for this team.

I'd be OK with Faksa or Forsberg too, but Galchenyuk's the guy I'm targeting if I'm JR.

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03-02-2012, 02:11 PM
  #93
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I'm pretty sure you're safe, I agree we won't go for d. Just saying at this point bpa would be my choice. We have a lot of solid young players close or on their way, at this point I'd just want the best one we could get with the hopes they are a top player at their position for us. To me, I'll take high end anything. If we over strengthen a position, it'll be an actual point of strength to build on. Outside of goaltending I don't think we have a position of strength. I don't have as much high hopes for the d that others share. To me we're at the point we were three years ago with all the forwards. Three years from now we could still be waiting for even one of these d prospects to take a job. History says that's a distinct possibility.

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03-02-2012, 02:12 PM
  #94
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk View Post
Point understood but disagreed. At this point we've got SO much young D talent coming up the pipeline, and while the top-end talent probably isn't there we've got several future NHLers in our system. At forward, meanwhile, the future top 6ers are simply not there. Dalpe, maybe, Bowman and Boychuk probably not, and Samson probably not for us. I know we've got a couple of young forwards in Skinner and Tlusty that are playing well in the top 6, but I think the need there is enough to pass over the BPA in order to actually gain some scoring ability.

This also could have to do with the fact that I DON'T think the next great Dman is in this draft, but if the Canes draft a Dman in the 1st round I'll be pretty disappointed. That being said, history's certainly on my side, and I think JR, despite being seemingly unable to do anything about it, understands the need at winger is there. I'm not worried about drafting a Dman in the top 10.
I'm with Bleed on this one. I'm not saying what JR WILL do, just saying what I think he should do, and that's BPA. A few years ago, many were saying that we had so much young talent in our forward ranks with Bowman, Boychuk, Dalpe, Sutter, etc.... but that we were lacking D prospects. Just like with our forwards, the same could happen with our D prospects over time where they don't all pan out. Not to say that a draft pick is a sure thing either, but if the best player available is a defenseman, then draft him. If he's a forward,then draft him.

If you have too many quality guys at a spot, then you can always trade one later for help in other areas. This team has way too many holes and way to little talent to not go after BPA.

EDIT: and I don't think JR will take a defenseman in the first round, but he did surprise me with Murphy last year as well as taking Rask in the 2nd and Hoffmann in the 4th which is a departure from his norm. Although Lowe and Sutter (NHL bloodlines) and the Whaler pick were picks consistent with the norm.

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03-02-2012, 02:17 PM
  #95
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I think it will hinge greatly on what the ufa market and trade market looks like. If JR honestly thinks he can get that top flight forward either through free agency (unlikely) or from a trade (possible) then I'd say he goes BPA.

If he doesn't think he can pick up that forward then I think he'll go for the forward he thinks can make the fastest impact (a la Skinner).

Or he could just confirm that he has lost his marbles and go way off the charts with another Paradis type pick.

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03-02-2012, 02:30 PM
  #96
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I'd be fine with taking a d-man if he's BPA. But he better be heads and shoulders above the best available forward if that happens. Say if we had Dumba ranked higher than Faksa (say Dumba is 7 and Faksa is 8) but we like Faksa a lot and we have more of a need for a player like him, then I would hope we take him even there's still one player higher than him on our board.

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03-02-2012, 02:31 PM
  #97
Boom Boom Anton
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I don't think any of the guys in the range we'll be picking will be NHL ready in year 1. Galchenyuk has been out with major ACL surgery so it's unrealistic to think he'd make the jump after recovering from that an not playing for a year. I think guys like Faksa and Forsberg will be better suited to more JR/Swedish league/AHL time to improve their skating.

I'm not as up on these prospects as others, but it doesn't seem like there are many NHL ready prospects outside the top couple of picks. Anyone we pick this year I'd expect to be a couple of years away from making an impact.

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03-02-2012, 02:37 PM
  #98
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Yakupov and Grigorenko are locks to play for their NHL club next year, IMO. And I'm sure there will be 2-3 guys who impress their clubs and stay up for the whole season. Then there might be one prospect who stays up with the big club for the preseason and 3 regular season games without getting any meaningful playing time before he's sent back to juniors.

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03-02-2012, 02:37 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
I don't think any of the guys in the range we'll be picking will be NHL ready in year 1. Galchenyuk has been out with major ACL surgery so it's unrealistic to think he'd make the jump after recovering from that an not playing for a year. I think guys like Faksa and Forsberg will be better suited to more JR/Swedish league/AHL time to improve their skating.

I'm not as up on these prospects as others, but it doesn't seem like there are many NHL ready prospects outside the top couple of picks. Anyone we pick this year I'd expect to be a couple of years away from making an impact.
Or, to state this in JR speak.

"He's a top 10 forward pick, he must be NHL ready right away!!!!!11one" (or something of that nature)

Square peg, round hole. Attempt for a couple of years. After lack of immediate success, trade player away for a player in a similar situation in another organization.

Followed by mediocrity and many occasions of "We like our group."

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03-02-2012, 02:41 PM
  #100
Boom Boom Anton
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Originally Posted by visor wearing goon View Post
I'd be fine with taking a d-man if he's BPA. But he better be heads and shoulders above the best available forward if that happens. Say if we had Dumba ranked higher than Faksa (say Dumba is 7 and Faksa is 8) but we like Faksa a lot and we have more of a need for a player like him, then I would hope we take him even there's still one player higher than him on our board.
I agree, but realistically, that's the only way JR will take a defenseman. If he feels he's head and shoulders above the guy that fills a need. He's kind of shown that in the last 2 drafts.

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