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Stone.. or Toffoli?

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03-02-2012, 08:25 AM
  #1
sveiglar
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Stone.. or Toffoli?

First, please forgive me because this question is kind of fantasy-ish, but I want to ask it here because this board would have the most informed opinions (one Sens prospect, one 67s star).

Watching Toffoli this year with the 67s, he seems to be rounding out his game without sacrificing offense. I can't say I've seen any of Stone outside of the WJC, but everybody knows what he showed there; finding holes and getting shots off in a heartbeat.

I know all Sens fans are stoked about Stone and rightly so, but today if you had the ability to have Toffoli instead of him, who would you take?

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03-02-2012, 08:28 AM
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Shanny
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Cody Ceci.

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03-02-2012, 08:30 AM
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H2O
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Honestly, I don't see an NHL future for Toffoli. He can be lazy at times and lacks explosiveness with his feet to do what he can do now in the NHL. He is very smart offensively and one hell of a finisher, but I'm not sure if that's enough. I think Toffoli will be a poor man's Michael Ryder whereas Stone will be as good as Michael Ryder and maybe even better.

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03-02-2012, 08:38 AM
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Lyndon Slewidge
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Stone, Tofolli wasn't even on the juniors team

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03-02-2012, 10:26 AM
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Bazel5
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I'm not sure if you follow Corey Pronman (pretty good prospect analyst) but I asked him over twitter which of the two needs more skating improvement for the NHL (both have exhibited skating weaknesses) and Toffoli was his answer.

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03-02-2012, 10:31 AM
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jbeck5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
Cody Ceci.
I see you're ceci, and raise you a monahan.

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Old
03-02-2012, 10:34 AM
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Marvelous Manked
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
I see you're ceci, and raise you a monahan.
This.

Toffoli is still a pretty lazy guy, and his speed is not NHL calibre.

From what I saw at the juniors, Stones speed isn't horrible but it isn't great either.

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Old
03-02-2012, 11:16 AM
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widesol
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From the 67's game i've been to, I've been very Impressed with Prince seems to be a threat everytime he's on the ice

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03-02-2012, 11:26 AM
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Nizzy
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Prince was the steal of that draft hands down ..He pretty much has the same stats as Logan couture when he was a 67

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03-02-2012, 11:36 AM
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Larionov
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Nothing is more common that a junior hockey scoring sensation - translating that to the NHL is more difficult. Hockeydb.com is littered with the names of guys who put up ridiculous numbers in major junior, and washed out in the NHL. I don't want to needlessly pick Toffoli's game apart, but I share the concerns that his speed and grit might not be NHL calibre as yet. For these same reasons, I am a little cautious about Prince and Stone - it's great that the Sens have them in the pipeline, but let's not pencil them in on the first line in 2014 quite yet...

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03-02-2012, 11:51 AM
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guyzeur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nizzy View Post
Prince was the steal of that draft hands down ..He pretty much has the same stats as Logan couture when he was a 67
Shane Prince best 2 seasons (last 2) kept a 1.5 and 1.6 pt ratio per game

Logan Couture's best 2 seasons (2nd and 4th) kept a 1.4 & 1.44 pt ratio per game

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Old
03-02-2012, 12:09 PM
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OmniSens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
I see you're ceci, and raise you a monahan.
Reraise you a Prince

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03-02-2012, 12:18 PM
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Bob Kudelski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
Shane Prince best 2 seasons (last 2) kept a 1.5 and 1.6 pt ratio per game

Logan Couture's best 2 seasons (2nd and 4th) kept a 1.4 & 1.44 pt ratio per game
But do you think Prince will ever compare to Couture at the NHL level?

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03-02-2012, 12:20 PM
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H2O
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Originally Posted by Bob Kudelski View Post
But do you think Prince will ever compare to Couture at the NHL level?
The potential is there imo. He's so dominant right now for the 67s. If he gets stronger for the pro, he's going to be special for us.

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03-02-2012, 12:23 PM
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jbeck5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniSens View Post
Reraise you a Prince
Monahan's almost as good and he's only 16.

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03-02-2012, 12:38 PM
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WasTeD
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Everyone who watched Logan Couture in junior knew he would be a better pro then junior player. His smarts were on another level then anyone else on his team or his line. His linemates didn't have the hockey IQ or hockey sense to finish off most of the plays he created. It was obvious that once he started playing with other guys who were on the same level as him that he would be an incredible player.

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Old
03-02-2012, 01:06 PM
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Nizzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kudelski View Post
But do you think Prince will ever compare to Couture at the NHL level?
Yes he makes everyone around him better he has the skill without a question ..

When the 67's hit 190 goals this year Shane Prince was in on 40 percent of them either goal or helper ..

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03-02-2012, 01:11 PM
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Larionov
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Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
Everyone who watched Logan Couture in junior knew he would be a better pro then junior player. His smarts were on another level then anyone else on his team or his line. His linemates didn't have the hockey IQ or hockey sense to finish off most of the plays he created. It was obvious that once he started playing with other guys who were on the same level as him that he would be an incredible player.
This is an excellent point, and of course it is difficult to measure this while watching a junior game. Is a guy scoring because of his teammates, or in spite of them? Is he simply feasting on poor competition, or can he be productive against the top teams? It's always worth watching a player when he plays against the better teams, as some guys put up most of their numbers in blowouts against sub-standard teams. You can't just watch a guy a couple of times, look at his stat line, and predict if he will be a good pro or not. It's much more complicated than that...

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Old
03-02-2012, 01:24 PM
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If Monohand can continue to put up very good numbers next year without Prince and Toffoli, he has a chance at 1st overall imo.

He's already a top 3 prospect at this point.

As for Toffoli, if he an improve his skating and compete just a little bit, he has 40 goal potential.

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03-02-2012, 01:31 PM
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H2O
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I'm concerned with Monahan's finishing ability. He's been struggling in that department lately. He does so many little things right though, things that are hard to teach, and he is a beast on the faceoff. He reminds me of Eric Staal, he'll be up there with Jones, Mackinnon, and Barkov.

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Old
03-02-2012, 01:32 PM
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FightingIrish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndon Slewidge View Post
Stone, Tofolli wasn't even on the juniors team

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:25 PM
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Tundraman
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I would never like to see Stone as the last man high in the O-zone. I also don't ever expect that I'll see him skate back hard from the opposing zone and be the first man back to break up a 2 on 1 in front of his net. If a breakaway race started at the opposing goal line I would know that almost any opposing player would be taking a shot on our net before Stone had made it back to his own blue line. All that said his down low game, puck sense and scoring touch are phenomenal. I'd take Stone. A bird in the hand is worth ......

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03-02-2012, 02:33 PM
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Twist and Shout
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Won't speak for Stone, but I will say that I think Toffoli makes a lot of people eat crow in the next couple of years. You can't categorize every elite junior scorer before they even attempt to make the next step.

I see him scoring 35 in the NHL sooner rather than later.

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Old
03-02-2012, 03:22 PM
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FolignoQuantumLeap
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Toffoli has the better shooting skills of the two. Skating isn't good but he's worked on the defensive side of his game and he can find open space for his rocket one timers. I look at him and think "if Ryder can do it, this kid certainly can as well".

Stone's got the better vision and playmaking skills but he goes hard to the net which will help him score goals as much as his great hands and quick release.

Both guys have a chance to be offensive contributers but they're ceiling depends on how much they can improve on their skating. If I had to pick one, It'd be Stone but its real close.

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03-02-2012, 04:01 PM
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DoctorDoak
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Seems to me Toffoli takes more flak than he deserves. Skating won't be his strength by any means, but there are plenty of ugly skaters (Andrew Brunette, anyone?) who've made their living in the NHL, and most juniors need some time to fill out their frames anyway. Is there any reason to think he's incapable of improving his strength, and maybe improving his skating at least a bit? Stone himself is a good example of the possibility of improving skating, although I agree it seems to be a major stumbling block for a lot of players, and is more important than ever with the way the game's played today.

Not to say that he won't take some seasoning in the AHL, and could well not make it, but it seems like anytime a Canadian junior scorer like Toffoli gets passed over the WJC team, it's assumed he's going to be the next Angelo Esposito. Hockey Canada's good at picking players who'll make the bigs, but they aren't savants either.

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