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2012 NHL Entry Draft Talk 3.0

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:01 AM
  #1001
overlords
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Alright. Thanks. I was just musing with the idea of drafting Galch and him impressing so much at camp as to stick with the club. I know grigs can play wing, but I never heard of Galch doing it. Guess now I know why

And yes, I'm thinking way ahead here.

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03-02-2012, 02:01 AM
  #1002
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I have a feeling if the Islanders finish below us and don't draft first, they may feel compelled to pick a defender. For one thing, they tend to take risks (Niederreiter was a late riser if I recall) and I think there might be some regret about picking Strome over Hamilton (and missing out on Larsson to begin with) they want to compensate for.

It's just a gut feeling mind you but more than anyone else they can't afford to be patient much longer and have just picked 2 centers in recent drafts, so I can see them focusing on Dumba or Murray.

Then again with the way they are run they are as likely to pick Faksa or something. And then rush him in the NHL and ruin his career.


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03-02-2012, 08:03 AM
  #1003
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I have a feeling if the Islanders finish below us and don't draft first, they may feel compelled to pick a defender. For one thing, they tend to take risks (Niederreiter was a late riser if I recall) and I think there might be some regret about picking Strome over Hamilton (and missing out on Larsson to begin with) they want to compensate for.

It's just a gut feeling mind you but more than anyone else they can't afford to be patient much longer and have just picked 2 centers in recent drafts, so I can see them focusing on Dumba or Murray.

Then again with the way they are run they are as likely to pick Faksa or something. And then rush him in the NHL and ruin his career.
I believe theres now a term for it...getting "Snow-ed" in.




sorry I couldn't resist it.....it's a slow day at work.

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03-02-2012, 09:20 AM
  #1004
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So I guess the consensus is then, that we want the best FORWARD available, and not the best PLAYER available?

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03-02-2012, 09:26 AM
  #1005
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I think Grigorenko's size and skill are too much for the habs to pass on if we get the opportunity. We'll never be able to acquire/sign a big, skilled centre, so this is how we're going to have to do it.

Though, Forsberg could be that player, too.

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03-02-2012, 09:43 AM
  #1006
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I want Grigorenko! He is being compared to Evgeni Malkin and Jean Beliveau!?!

6'4" and 200 pounds!!!

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=6549

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03-02-2012, 09:45 AM
  #1007
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Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
So I guess the consensus is then, that we want the best FORWARD available, and not the best PLAYER available?
I think after Yakupov, the next 4 players are pretty much interchangeable. I don't think there's a clear BPA between Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, Murray or Forsberg. After that it drops to guys like Dumba, Trouba, Rielly, Faksa, etc.

Basically, just go with the guy that suits your needs most when you draft between 2-5.

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03-02-2012, 10:00 AM
  #1008
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So I guess the consensus is then, that we want the best FORWARD available, and not the best PLAYER available?
what is this team's most glaring need in it's prospect pool? we have several high end D. But look at the FWDs

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03-02-2012, 10:11 AM
  #1009
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what is this team's most glaring need in it's prospect pool? we have several high end D. But look at the FWDs
So your answer is "yes" then? Go with the best forward, who may not necessarily be the best player?

Just want to make sure that everybody understands what they are saying here. It's one thing if, as le_sean says, the players are considered interchangeable, but I'm not sure that is the case. If Grigorenko is going to be a "franchise player" and he, Dumba, Murray and Galychenuk are all interchangeable, well, that would make FIVE franchise players at the top of this draft, if you include Yakupov.

Quite the draft.

Heresay, I know, but if Timmins believes that Murray/Dumba/Reilly are better than Grigorenko/Forsberg/Galenychuk then I hope he has the stones to make the unpopular choice. Yes, we have a lot of defense prospects, especially compared to our forwards, but chances are none of them are going to be ready for at least another two years, perhaps not really having an impact for another three to five years. At which point who knows what our depth chart will look like? Trades happen, there are salary cap implications, injuries, you name it.

I am not against taking a forward IF Timmins and company have a forward at the top of their list when it comes time to pick. But I don't want to be drafting on need, when by all accounts that's the worst thing a team could be doing.

Best player available.


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Old
03-02-2012, 11:00 AM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
I think after Yakupov, the next 4 players are pretty much interchangeable. I don't think there's a clear BPA between Galchenyuk, Grigorenko, Murray or Forsberg. After that it drops to guys like Dumba, Trouba, Rielly, Faksa, etc.

Basically, just go with the guy that suits your needs most when you draft between 2-5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
So your answer is "yes" then? Go with the best forward, who may not necessarily be the best player?

Just want to make sure that everybody understands what they are saying here. It's one thing if, as le_sean says, the players are considered interchangeable, but I'm not sure that is the case. If Grigorenko is going to be a "franchise player" and he, Dumba, Murray and Galychenuk are all interchangeable, well, that would make FIVE franchise players at the top of this draft, if you include Yakupov.

Quite the draft.

Heresay, I know, but if Timmins believes that Murray/Dumba/Reilly are better than Grigorenko/Forsberg/Galenychuk then I hope he has the stones to make the unpopular choice. Yes, we have a lot of defense prospects, especially compared to our forwards, but chances are none of them are going to be ready for at least another two years, perhaps not really having an impact for another three to five years. At which point who knows what our depth chart will look like? Trades happen, there are salary cap implications, injuries, you name it.

I am not against taking a forward IF Timmins and company have a forward at the top of their list when it comes time to pick. But I don't want to be drafting on need, when by all accounts that's the worst thing a team could be doing.

Best player available.
You're twisting what he said. And what I basically agree with. AFTER Yakupov the next 4-5 players are interchangeable. No one said Franchise players. You have three projected 1st line fwds and 2 top pair dmen, great young talents but not players you can say are franchise guys, more like perennial All-Star favorites.

We have a Franchise goalie in Price. We have a top pairing physical offensive minded Dman in Subban. We have a top end Power Forward Winger in Pacioretty. What do you think would be a good fit with with that group?

This team needs a true Star calibre Centre prospect. Has been the case for 20+ years. We are getting the highest pick in about 33 years. There are two Centres in this draft that fit that bill.

All we hear is BPA, BPA, BPA. Maybe Timmins should have the stones to fill a glaring long standing organizational need.




You can argue that Timmins dislikes Grigorenko. I've read some articles quoting him saying he is a risk. But Galchenyuk is definately a player in the "Timmins" mold. Talented, dedicated, two-way player with a work-ethic that is unmatched.

If Timmins drafts a Dman I'll add a quote to my profile that JonnyReb is my Daddy

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03-02-2012, 11:33 AM
  #1011
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
You're twisting what he said. And what I basically agree with. AFTER Yakupov the next 4-5 players are interchangeable. No one said Franchise players. You have three projected 1st line fwds and 2 top pair dmen, great young talents but not players you can say are franchise guys, more like perennial All-Star favorites.
This whole thread is littered with people saying that we need to take the "franchise forward." I was going to start quoting them, but there were too many. Basically at least one per page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
We have a Franchise goalie in Price. We have a top pairing physical offensive minded Dman in Subban. We have a top end Power Forward Winger in Pacioretty. What do you think would be a good fit with with that group?
Undoubtedly a forward. But will that still be the case in three years? What if both Subban and Price want $7 million three years from now? What if Tinordi develops Komisarek-itis, and Beaulieu gets a bad case of the Hainsey?

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This team needs a true Star calibre Centre prospect. Has been the case for 20+ years. We are getting the highest pick in about 33 years. There are two Centres in this draft that fit that bill.
Aye, but that is the question, isn't it? One of these centers is apparently not very well liked by our chief scout, who I personally consider to be one of the best in the game, and the other is coming off of major knee surgery and hasn't played in a year. I agree that we need an All Star Center... but what if neither of those guys turns into that? What if Timmins doesn't believe they are the best players?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
All we hear is BPA, BPA, BPA. Maybe Timmins should have the stones to fill a glaring long standing organizational need.
Again though, you are assuming that either of the G's fills this need. When was the last time we had a Norris caliber defenseman? Wouldn't that be nice too? My point has been that IF Timmins thinks that the defenseman is the better player, hasn't he earned our trust? Would you rather have Scott Niedermeyer or Pierre Turgeon? What was the mood on this board like after Timmins passed on Angelo Esposito (the home-grown star who was once ranked #1!) and took YET ANOTHER Minnesota high school defenseman in Ryan McDonagh?

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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
If Timmins drafts a Dman I'll add a quote to my profile that JonnyReb is my Daddy
Ummm... okay?

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Old
03-02-2012, 11:37 AM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I want Grigorenko! He is being compared to Evgeni Malkin and Jean Beliveau!?!

6'4" and 200 pounds!!!

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=6549
Nobody is comparing him to Beliveau, and the only reason he's drawing comparisons to Malkin is because he's a big Russian centre. The player I've heard thrown around, and we're talking if he reaches his top potential, is Joe Thornton.

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Old
03-02-2012, 12:03 PM
  #1013
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Nobody is comparing him to Beliveau, and the only reason he's drawing comparisons to Malkin is because he's a big Russian centre. The player I've heard thrown around, and we're talking if he reaches his top potential, is Joe Thornton.
Seriously the Beliveau comparisons are blasphemous. It's only because he's playing in Quebec City.

Thornton, a better/more willing shooting Henrik Sedin, Yashin or Lecavalier with less grit and a little better playmaking are the high end comparisons that make sense. Of course no 2 players are exactly the same.

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Old
03-02-2012, 01:06 PM
  #1014
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This whole thread is littered with people saying that we need to take the "franchise forward." I was going to start quoting them, but there were too many. Basically at least one per page.
I completely understand. But you quoted the one guy who (finally) didn't use the term Franchise to describe the forwards available after Yakupov.

[/QUOTE]

Undoubtedly a forward. But will that still be the case in three years? What if both Subban and Price want $7 million three years from now? What if Tinordi develops Komisarek-itis, and Beaulieu gets a bad case of the Hainsey?
[/QUOTE]

That's alot of What-ifs.

We have on the Blueline (in no particular order or type) Subban, Diaz, Weber, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Mitera, Ellis, Nash, Emelin, Dietz, Pateryn, Didier, Stejskal at varying levels of development and covering the entire range of Dman type...and I'm sure I've missed a few.


None of which have earned or project to earn 7M. And, this summer Price is just as likely to sign a 5M$ deal long term so again....what-if.


[/QUOTE]
Aye, but that is the question, isn't it? One of these centers is apparently not very well liked by our chief scout, who I personally consider to be one of the best in the game, and the other is coming off of major knee surgery and hasn't played in a year. I agree that we need an All Star Center... but what if neither of those guys turns into that? What if Timmins doesn't believe they are the best players? [/QUOTE]

I would put money on him eyeing up Galchenyuk and Forsberg before Dumba or Trouba

[/QUOTE]
Again though, you are assuming that either of the G's fills this need. When was the last time we had a Norris caliber defenseman? Wouldn't that be nice too? My point has been that IF Timmins thinks that the defenseman is the better player, hasn't he earned our trust? Would you rather have Scott Niedermeyer or Pierre Turgeon? What was the mood on this board like after Timmins passed on Angelo Esposito (the home-grown star who was once ranked #1!) and took YET ANOTHER Minnesota high school defenseman in Ryan McDonagh?[/QUOTE]

Chelios was our last one. And Timmins loves those american trained players and Galchenyuk played in the USNTP...just saying


[/QUOTE]
Ummm... okay? [/QUOTE]

The quote thing is just how sure I am that they don't pick a dman that early. This draft is very deep with defensive talent. they could draft two really solid dmen in the 2nd or trade the two 2nd to move up into the 1st rd and draft someone they have their eye on.

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03-02-2012, 01:40 PM
  #1015
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
Nobody is comparing him to Beliveau, and the only reason he's drawing comparisons to Malkin is because he's a big Russian centre. The player I've heard thrown around, and we're talking if he reaches his top potential, is Joe Thornton.
I disagree, I think he is going to be much better than Thornton and a much more talented Getzlaf and almost a Malkin.

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03-02-2012, 01:46 PM
  #1016
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I want Grigorenko! He is being compared to Evgeni Malkin and Jean Beliveau!?!

6'4" and 200 pounds!!!

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=6549
Wow he doesnt turn 18 until May.
My son grew 2 inches in his 17th year.

This guy going to be huge.

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03-02-2012, 01:52 PM
  #1017
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So your answer is "yes" then? Go with the best forward, who may not necessarily be the best player?

Just want to make sure that everybody understands what they are saying here. It's one thing if, as le_sean says, the players are considered interchangeable, but I'm not sure that is the case. If Grigorenko is going to be a "franchise player" and he, Dumba, Murray and Galychenuk are all interchangeable, well, that would make FIVE franchise players at the top of this draft, if you include Yakupov.

Quite the draft.

Heresay, I know, but if Timmins believes that Murray/Dumba/Reilly are better than Grigorenko/Forsberg/Galenychuk then I hope he has the stones to make the unpopular choice. Yes, we have a lot of defense prospects, especially compared to our forwards, but chances are none of them are going to be ready for at least another two years, perhaps not really having an impact for another three to five years. At which point who knows what our depth chart will look like? Trades happen, there are salary cap implications, injuries, you name it.

I am not against taking a forward IF Timmins and company have a forward at the top of their list when it comes time to pick. But I don't want to be drafting on need, when by all accounts that's the worst thing a team could be doing.

Best player available.
This. Never draft by needs.

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03-02-2012, 01:52 PM
  #1018
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Wow he doesnt turn 18 until May.
My son grew 2 inches in his 17th year.

This guy going to be huge.
I didn't grew an inch in my 17th year...but i gained 10 pounds. Everyone is different, and he's already 6'3 so I don't thnik he'll grow much more.

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03-02-2012, 01:53 PM
  #1019
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I disagree, I think he is going to be much better than Thornton and a much more talented Getzlaf and almost a Malkin.
Have you ever seen him play?

Being better than Thornton and Getzlaf is something... you know it?

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03-02-2012, 01:54 PM
  #1020
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I disagree, I think he is going to be much better than Thornton and a much more talented Getzlaf and almost a Malkin.
Thornton is a career PPG player who has a couple of 100 point seasons notched on his belt. If Grigs became that he'd be an absolute stud. This is assuming he wouldn't disappear come playoff time like Thornton has...

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03-02-2012, 01:56 PM
  #1021
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Seems like a bad year for tanking hard. After Yakupov, no real consensus for players 2-6. And all of them have question marks, wether about their games or injuries. Timmins must be feeling nervous as he'll be judge very hard about that pick (especially because of stupid medias that know less than nothing about drafting)

Unlucky habs...

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03-02-2012, 01:59 PM
  #1022
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Seems like a bad year for tanking hard. After Yakupov, no real consensus for players 2-6. And all of them have question marks, wether about their games or injuries. Timmins must be feeling nervous as he'll be judge very hard about that pick (especially because of stupid medias that know less than nothing about drafting)

Unlucky habs...
This draft is a pretty decent draft to have a top 7 pick. 1 blue chip superstar in Yakupov, 3 blue chip top pairing defenseman, and 3 wild card forwards who all have franchise forward potential...

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03-02-2012, 02:07 PM
  #1023
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Seems like a bad year for tanking hard. After Yakupov, no real consensus for players 2-6. And all of them have question marks, wether about their games or injuries. Timmins must be feeling nervous as he'll be judge very hard about that pick (especially because of stupid medias that know less than nothing about drafting)

Unlucky habs...
I think most of us are nervous as well. There will be big pressure on Timmins to select the right kid this year, more so than 2005 so pretty much the most important pick he's ever had..

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:09 PM
  #1024
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I disagree, I think he is going to be much better than Thornton and a much more talented Getzlaf and almost a Malkin.
Much better than Thornton and more talented Getzlaf?

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03-02-2012, 02:10 PM
  #1025
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This draft is a pretty decent draft to have a top 7 pick. 1 blue chip superstar in Yakupov, 3 blue chip top pairing defenseman, and 3 wild card forwards who all have franchise forward potential...
Good draft to be in the top7, bad draft to be in the top 3. Hard to know which team will have the better player between 2-7.

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