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Carey Price: What's he worth?

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:00 PM
  #26
Slew Foots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
I've been a HFBoards lurker for many years never having felt the need to put in my say since someone would always be of similar mind. But now, no one else seems to think what I'm thinking or is afraid to say it because of a suspicion that they'd be ridiculed or that they would be called a poor fan. I felt compelled to write a post.

I'm a fan of the Canadiens as a team and goalies as a position. I've loved, hated and been ambivalent about many goalies since the 70s. I've loved Tretiak, and Esposito, wondered at the awkward movements of young Dryden, mourned the early loss of Pelle Lindbergh, hoped for Hackett to beat his vertigo to be what he could, laughed in joy at Hasek's flopping saves, marvelled at the brilliance of Roy and Halak in their magical playoff runs... I could go on and on.

But that is just to preface my opinion (which seems to be a lonely one). It's this - I never liked Theodore, and just like Theodore, I don't like Carey Price.

People seem to have a collective unconscious agreement that Price is the Canadiens' goalie now and well into the future. There are threads speculating about how much to pay him and for how long. They talk about the great lateral movement and positioning. They say he is a franchise goalie and franchise goalies are paid top dollar. Statistics are used to validate their claims to his greatness or potential therein. Forgive me but my memory is poor - was Theodore not also assumed to be a great goalie with a great future?
(I do not mean to compare goaltending techniques, only the general consensus of opinion on ability).

What makes me not like Price? I regret I am not supported by the data. The numbers say he is a number one. I only have my gut feeling based on observing his goaltending and perhaps comparing it in my mind to great goalies I have watched in the past. Subconsciously, I was weary of Price, even in his great season last year. Maybe it was the Umberger goals in the Philadelphia series a few years ago that made me turn on him - goals that made my stomach turn and my heart ache for someone else in front of that net. Maybe it was the Boston series before that that had already cemented my opinion.

And again, I am not arguing based on his ability. He obviously has the technique. It's that something you can never put a finger on. And I am certain he doesn't have that "thing". Even if the team was doing well this year, he is not a goalie I want to go to battle for or with.

But now with the team in flux, we want to sign this fellow to a long term deal at superstar wages. It is a mistake. The management of the team made an error in trading Halak instead of riding a tandem to reveal the true identity of the hero in the mask. My wish is that it does not make a second one by rooting us to this particular goalie in an unhealthy financial and performance situation.

My criticism does not come without a recommendation. You may view it as naive. I believe in my heart that we should trade Price while the community at large holds him in high regard.

This is all only my opinion. I may be wrong but no one seems to ever say anything negative about this goalie. I'm wondering why.
First off, welcome to the boards. Secondly, I am guessing a lot of people will attack you for this post hehe...

I agree with you that Price tends to be overrated by the fanbase here. He's a good goaltender, but I too would be reluctant to sign him to a huge contract right now. Last year in the playoffs, I believe that if Price had been only good (not necessarily great), the Habs would have knocked out the Bruins in the first round. His previous playoff appearances were even worse. Every single playoff series he's played in, he's been outplayed by the opposing goaltender. The fact that he's largely struggled in the playoffs scares me. Giving an unproven playoff performer a huge contract is very risky. I would rather see him play solid in the playoffs before I give him that monster contract.

The good news is that he's young, and he's maturing. Last year, even though he wasn't great, he was better in the playoffs than he had been in the past. I hope that trend continues, and I have no reason to believe that with his better maturity will come a better mindset for being that masked hero you speak of in the playoffs.

Where I disagree is that he'll never become that hero. I think he has what it takes, even if he's not there yet. He may never reach Roy/Brodeur/Hasek levels of greatness, but the fact that he started his career at such an early age gives him a chance to challenge those greats. He's still very young. And the reason why it often seems like he doesn't have that "thing", is that his fundamentals are so sound that it often looks like he's not trying/moving/reacting quickly.

An interesting point you make is about trading Price while his value is very high. The season Theodore won the Vezina, I was clamoring for the Habs to trade him, because I believed he was vastly overrated and would never be able to repeat that performance. In hindsight, I was right - maybe in time you'll be proven right. However, personally, I don't believe his perceived value in the league is currently greater than his genuine value, so I wouldn't make that trade.

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:02 PM
  #27
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Eller, Schultz while keeping Price or Backes, Perron (since Price value is higher) while keeping Halak ?

My choice would be the second !

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:03 PM
  #28
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anything over 4 mill, is over paying. people better wake up, he's not an elite goalie and may never be one. 4mill, and 3 yrs , bring home the cup, give him a blank cheque and he can fill it out for whatever he wants , and stays as long as he wants to.

big game tomorrow night ,,,if he wins the game for us , i'll tact another 1/2 mill on his pay

lets getter goin' .....drop the puck and drop the mitts...old time hockey baby!!!

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:04 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Failing Hands View Post
What would you give him in terms of length of contract and salary/year this offseason?

For me, it's not really an option to not sign Price. We have to sign him, it's a matter of negotiation because this season has really not been stellar and SHOULD lower his value.

5 year $25M contract ($5M/year)?
At that money it would have to be a longer term.

7 years 35 million

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03-02-2012, 02:05 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
I've been a HFBoards lurker for many years never having felt the need to put in my say since someone would always be of similar mind. But now, no one else seems to think what I'm thinking or is afraid to say it because of a suspicion that they'd be ridiculed or that they would be called a poor fan. I felt compelled to write a post.

I'm a fan of the Canadiens as a team and goalies as a position. I've loved, hated and been ambivalent about many goalies since the 70s. I've loved Tretiak, and Esposito, wondered at the awkward movements of young Dryden, mourned the early loss of Pelle Lindbergh, hoped for Hackett to beat his vertigo to be what he could, laughed in joy at Hasek's flopping saves, marvelled at the brilliance of Roy and Halak in their magical playoff runs... I could go on and on.

But that is just to preface my opinion (which seems to be a lonely one). It's this - I never liked Theodore, and just like Theodore, I don't like Carey Price.

People seem to have a collective unconscious agreement that Price is the Canadiens' goalie now and well into the future. There are threads speculating about how much to pay him and for how long. They talk about the great lateral movement and positioning. They say he is a franchise goalie and franchise goalies are paid top dollar. Statistics are used to validate their claims to his greatness or potential therein. Forgive me but my memory is poor - was Theodore not also assumed to be a great goalie with a great future?
(I do not mean to compare goaltending techniques, only the general consensus of opinion on ability).

What makes me not like Price? I regret I am not supported by the data. The numbers say he is a number one. I only have my gut feeling based on observing his goaltending and perhaps comparing it in my mind to great goalies I have watched in the past. Subconsciously, I was weary of Price, even in his great season last year. Maybe it was the Umberger goals in the Philadelphia series a few years ago that made me turn on him - goals that made my stomach turn and my heart ache for someone else in front of that net. Maybe it was the Boston series before that that had already cemented my opinion.

And again, I am not arguing based on his ability. He obviously has the technique. It's that something you can never put a finger on. And I am certain he doesn't have that "thing". Even if the team was doing well this year, he is not a goalie I want to go to battle for or with.

But now with the team in flux, we want to sign this fellow to a long term deal at superstar wages. It is a mistake. The management of the team made an error in trading Halak instead of riding a tandem to reveal the true identity of the hero in the mask. My wish is that it does not make a second one by rooting us to this particular goalie in an unhealthy financial and performance situation.

My criticism does not come without a recommendation. You may view it as naive. I believe in my heart that we should trade Price while the community at large holds him in high regard.

This is all only my opinion. I may be wrong but no one seems to ever say anything negative about this goalie. I'm wondering why.
I don't think anyone signs players based on gut feelings but on actual statistics and what they bring or will bring to the team.

I did not see a recommendation in your post. All you say is that we shouldn't have traded Halak over Price, we should trade Price while his value is high. For who and for what? Who will take his place? That's not really a recommendation or an alternative in the current situation.

A lot of people say negative things about Price and, some of the time, rightfully so. His stats this year have not been great, but so hasn't the team in front of him. However, the fact of the matter is he is only 24, with already 3 NHL All Star game appearances, named Rookie of the Month in March 2008, CHL Goaltender of the year for 2007, along with a Calder Cup and a Calder Cup MVP award. He deserves to be on the team as the number one goaltender. The Habs chose wisely in keeping the true winner, and the fact there is still doubt in his ability to perform is quite surprising.

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03-02-2012, 02:06 PM
  #31
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Let me reiterate that my position is not supported by statistics. Again, I agree that the numbers say he is a number one. One can also state that at 24, his numbers compare well with elite goalies. So yes, ridicule can certainly be a response since all I've posited to counter it is "feeling" based on a historical reference of having watched many elite goalies for 4 decades.

I do wholeheartedly agree with the presumption that the defense this season has caused an aberration from his above average statistics. My opinion is not formulated on watching him give up goals due to poor defense and which cannot be saved. I believe I can differentiate situations where the goalie is "not responsible".

But a great goalie... well a great goalie can do miraculous things and sometimes people are not even aware of how wonderous some saves are or how in tune the goalies can be. There is a reason Price is relatively below average on shootouts, reasons that for me may fall into the suspicion that learned technique has masked the absence of the spirit of a goaltender to defend, protect, to be the final stop. Again, I may be wrong but I just wanted people to entertain the possibility that what they are watching in Price is not necessarily "glorious".

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03-02-2012, 02:08 PM
  #32
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03-02-2012, 02:14 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
Maybe you should take a look at Halak's current stats...

Also, I think his post deserve a bit more respect than that. He has the right to not be part of the "believers" in Price, and he explained his point in a well written text. If I were him, getting a reply starting with "LoOOLLL" would be borderline considered an insult.
ur right, I did reply in a knee-jerk way, and rudely so, now that I re-read what I wrote, and I apologize Pointed Finger.

But I still stand by my point, that using faith in a goalie because of how he paid when he was 21 isn't fair.

And in regards to Halak's play, I still stand by it, nothing say he isn't a good goalie, but being his size 5'11 its tough to be a goalie that play 70+ regular season games, and he seems to doing best in a tandem situation, last year, he wasn't great, expect for a few hot streaks, but this year he has been great in a tandem situation with Elliot.

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03-02-2012, 02:16 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReVeuF View Post
Eller, Schultz while keeping Price or Backes, Perron (since Price value is higher) while keeping Halak ?

My choice would be the second !
Can I have some? Backes and Perron..... I dont even know what to say, seems to be a common theme in this thread though.

5 mill is superstar money now and we should have kept Halak because of gut feelings even though he was terrible outside of a 10 game stretch until hitchcock was the coach of the blues. Price wasnt even good in the playoffs last year..... fantastic.

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:23 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
I've been a HFBoards lurker for many years never having felt the need to put in my say since someone would always be of similar mind. But now, no one else seems to think what I'm thinking or is afraid to say it because of a suspicion that they'd be ridiculed or that they would be called a poor fan. I felt compelled to write a post.

I'm a fan of the Canadiens as a team and goalies as a position. I've loved, hated and been ambivalent about many goalies since the 70s. I've loved Tretiak, and Esposito, wondered at the awkward movements of young Dryden, mourned the early loss of Pelle Lindbergh, hoped for Hackett to beat his vertigo to be what he could, laughed in joy at Hasek's flopping saves, marvelled at the brilliance of Roy and Halak in their magical playoff runs... I could go on and on.

But that is just to preface my opinion (which seems to be a lonely one). It's this - I never liked Theodore, and just like Theodore, I don't like Carey Price.

People seem to have a collective unconscious agreement that Price is the Canadiens' goalie now and well into the future. There are threads speculating about how much to pay him and for how long. They talk about the great lateral movement and positioning. They say he is a franchise goalie and franchise goalies are paid top dollar. Statistics are used to validate their claims to his greatness or potential therein. Forgive me but my memory is poor - was Theodore not also assumed to be a great goalie with a great future?
(I do not mean to compare goaltending techniques, only the general consensus of opinion on ability).

What makes me not like Price? I regret I am not supported by the data. The numbers say he is a number one. I only have my gut feeling based on observing his goaltending and perhaps comparing it in my mind to great goalies I have watched in the past. Subconsciously, I was weary of Price, even in his great season last year. Maybe it was the Umberger goals in the Philadelphia series a few years ago that made me turn on him - goals that made my stomach turn and my heart ache for someone else in front of that net. Maybe it was the Boston series before that that had already cemented my opinion.

And again, I am not arguing based on his ability. He obviously has the technique. It's that something you can never put a finger on. And I am certain he doesn't have that "thing". Even if the team was doing well this year, he is not a goalie I want to go to battle for or with.

But now with the team in flux, we want to sign this fellow to a long term deal at superstar wages. It is a mistake. The management of the team made an error in trading Halak instead of riding a tandem to reveal the true identity of the hero in the mask. My wish is that it does not make a second one by rooting us to this particular goalie in an unhealthy financial and performance situation.

My criticism does not come without a recommendation. You may view it as naive. I believe in my heart that we should trade Price while the community at large holds him in high regard.

This is all only my opinion. I may be wrong but no one seems to ever say anything negative about this goalie. I'm wondering why.
Welcome to the boards.

There are always players who you like or don't like. Sometimes there's no explanation for it, you just feel it in your gut.

I like Price though. His numbers are 6th in save percentage among active goalies and he's not yet 25. He's played behind mostly mediocre/bad teams and has survived the extreme pressure here in Montreal. Those are the reasons (some) people are hesitant to criticize him. There is lots to like here.

Maybe part of the reason that he's not trusted so much is that a lot of analysts out there overdo it when it comes to praising him. I think part of that praise comes from how much he's done at so young an age and others don't take age into account.

His supporters (me among them) feel that he'll probably continue to get better over time. Others just don't beleive in him. Welcome to the world of opinion.


If it makes you feel any better, I'll use a Fantasy Hockey keeper pool as an example. A few years back I got Patrick Marleau. I never believed in the guy and did everything I could to trade him. All he did was average 40 goals over the last few years and become the most consistent goal scorer on my club. Sometimes the negative feelings are misplaced. Hopefully that's the case here with Price.

Personally, I believe in him. We need to surround him with a bigger better and less green defense. He'll be fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
Let me reiterate that my position is not supported by statistics. Again, I agree that the numbers say he is a number one. One can also state that at 24, his numbers compare well with elite goalies. So yes, ridicule can certainly be a response since all I've posited to counter it is "feeling" based on a historical reference of having watched many elite goalies for 4 decades.

I do wholeheartedly agree with the presumption that the defense this season has caused an aberration from his above average statistics. My opinion is not formulated on watching him give up goals due to poor defense and which cannot be saved. I believe I can differentiate situations where the goalie is "not responsible".

But a great goalie... well a great goalie can do miraculous things and sometimes people are not even aware of how wonderous some saves are or how in tune the goalies can be. There is a reason Price is relatively below average on shootouts, reasons that for me may fall into the suspicion that learned technique has masked the absence of the spirit of a goaltender to defend, protect, to be the final stop. Again, I may be wrong but I just wanted people to entertain the possibility that what they are watching in Price is not necessarily "glorious".
Well, I think that's the problem right there... expectations. If you're expecting him to be Ken Dryden, that's just not going to happen. I think if everything goes right with Price he could have a career like Henrik Lundqvist. That's probably the high end of the spectrum for him. Even if he just stays as he is though, we've got a pretty solid goalie as it is. We've just got to put a better team around him.

Price may not be "glorious" but I don't think that should be the barometer of success. We've got a goalie that a lot of other teams right now wish they had. Consistent, young and able to take pressure. That's certainly not bad right?

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:25 PM
  #36
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03-02-2012, 02:34 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Yeah he'd be stupid to take $40M.
I just read this and realized how crazy the world of professional sport is... Anyway, back to your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I don't think goalies will be getting as huge of contracts anymore.

And I obviously wouldn't offer 8-years right way, but that's what I think it would come down too. I'd probably start with 4-years $18M or something and work my way up.
Less than 5 mil a year? Really? That's James Van Reimsdyke money dude... not going to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
Maybe you should take a look at Halak's current stats...

Also, I think his post deserve a bit more respect than that. He has the right to not be part of the "believers" in Price, and he explained his point in a well written text. If I were him, getting a reply starting with "LoOOLLL" would be borderline considered an insult.
Well, the Blues are ridiculous right now because Ken Hitchcock has his team playing so tight that they use the trap on the PP. You put Price (or any other goalie for that matter) on that team and they will see signficant improvement on their numbers. Halak's numbers had a sharp and dramatic improvement the moment Hitch took over.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I stand by my opinion from the start of the season;

$5.25 million per year/5 years.
If he takes that I will be ecstatic and so should everyone else.

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Old
03-02-2012, 02:44 PM
  #38
Slew Foots
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If he takes that I will be ecstatic and so should everyone else.
I don't think that he would initially take it, but that's about what he's worth.

I would say 28 M over 5 years is fair (4+5+6+6+7), which represents a reasonable 5.6M/year cap hit. He's 24, and there's no reason to give him UFA money for those RFA years.

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03-02-2012, 02:55 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
I don't think that he would initially take it, but that's about what he's worth.
Tell that to Philly, Tampa or Toronto. We are so spoiled we have no idea what it means to have a great goalie anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
I would say 28 M over 5 years is fair (4+5+6+6+7), which represents a reasonable 5.6M/year cap hit. He's 24, and there's no reason to give him UFA money for those RFA years.
Midseason when he was on fire I was sure he'd garner a lot more than this but I don't see him doing much less than 30 mil over 5 years. 28 mil might get it done but I can't see it for much less than what you have here.

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03-02-2012, 03:04 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
I've been a HFBoards lurker for many years never having felt the need to put in my say since someone would always be of similar mind. But now, no one else seems to think what I'm thinking or is afraid to say it because of a suspicion that they'd be ridiculed or that they would be called a poor fan. I felt compelled to write a post.

I'm a fan of the Canadiens as a team and goalies as a position. I've loved, hated and been ambivalent about many goalies since the 70s. I've loved Tretiak, and Esposito, wondered at the awkward movements of young Dryden, mourned the early loss of Pelle Lindbergh, hoped for Hackett to beat his vertigo to be what he could, laughed in joy at Hasek's flopping saves, marvelled at the brilliance of Roy and Halak in their magical playoff runs... I could go on and on.

But that is just to preface my opinion (which seems to be a lonely one). It's this - I never liked Theodore, and just like Theodore, I don't like Carey Price.

People seem to have a collective unconscious agreement that Price is the Canadiens' goalie now and well into the future. There are threads speculating about how much to pay him and for how long. They talk about the great lateral movement and positioning. They say he is a franchise goalie and franchise goalies are paid top dollar. Statistics are used to validate their claims to his greatness or potential therein. Forgive me but my memory is poor - was Theodore not also assumed to be a great goalie with a great future?
(I do not mean to compare goaltending techniques, only the general consensus of opinion on ability).

What makes me not like Price? I regret I am not supported by the data. The numbers say he is a number one. I only have my gut feeling based on observing his goaltending and perhaps comparing it in my mind to great goalies I have watched in the past. Subconsciously, I was weary of Price, even in his great season last year. Maybe it was the Umberger goals in the Philadelphia series a few years ago that made me turn on him - goals that made my stomach turn and my heart ache for someone else in front of that net. Maybe it was the Boston series before that that had already cemented my opinion.

And again, I am not arguing based on his ability. He obviously has the technique. It's that something you can never put a finger on. And I am certain he doesn't have that "thing". Even if the team was doing well this year, he is not a goalie I want to go to battle for or with.

But now with the team in flux, we want to sign this fellow to a long term deal at superstar wages. It is a mistake. The management of the team made an error in trading Halak instead of riding a tandem to reveal the true identity of the hero in the mask. My wish is that it does not make a second one by rooting us to this particular goalie in an unhealthy financial and performance situation.

My criticism does not come without a recommendation. You may view it as naive. I believe in my heart that we should trade Price while the community at large holds him in high regard.

This is all only my opinion. I may be wrong but no one seems to ever say anything negative about this goalie. I'm wondering why.
Hard to blame a goaltender, who came from great last season, with a above average performance in the first and only round, who now is playing behind a pretty terrible and panicked team who until Stubitz and White came in had no energy and purpose left. Not his best season this year, but neither is the team, so kind of moot to start blaming the guy who's taking it extra hard in nets. Numerous brainfarts by team leading to blown leads is hard for goaltender, who's still young.
There are lots of Critics on this board, though the criticism is actually very easly refutable most of the time, since it's usually based on relative perceptions like the bolded part in you'r text.
Halak is pretty much the same rythm as price with the blues. Will stink it up if the teram stinks it up and will play great when team plays great. (which is on par with most if not all true number one goalies, which is probably 20-25 of them around?)

Let's give him time here, i don't see a reason to get rid of a goaltender that's pretty much proven number one, and that you would have to replace anyways, with another number one. So the profit from that kind of replacement might be a bit thin, unless we are ready to go into the dark and bank on unknown goaltender to become someone. I mean, with Halak it was more of a case that people did give 0 attention to his career path (except for natey ofc ), but he was certainly no unknown and he was being worked up the ladder for years prior to that season/run.

I think the criticism will be there, and plenty of it, when he will be playing with capable D corps.
I also think some criticism is warrentend, but it should be more of 'precaution' since he still has a nice road ahead of him if he wants to live up to the expectations and titles this young man has already gotten until now, with not much PO W's under his belt. Which in the end is the ultimate 'accomplishment' for goalies i would say.

He's worth alot IMO, but will probably command 5.5-6mil per for 5+ years. Though i still have some kind of pessimistic gut feeling that he will end up demanding 1 year, going to arbitration and jetting town next year.


Last edited by uiCk: 03-02-2012 at 03:10 PM.
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Old
03-02-2012, 03:14 PM
  #41
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5 million a year would be a steal. Price is a top 5 goalie in the league, no matter what the idiotic haters say.

We're not overrating Price either. He is known by most as one of the, if not the, best young goalie in the NHL. Most people say him, Rinne and Rask interchangeable. There's a reason he's the favorite to be Canada's goalie in 2014 guys, it's not because he sucks

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03-02-2012, 03:22 PM
  #42
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He's not going to give up his UFA years for 5 million, if that's the offer he'll just say give me a 1-2 year deal and I'll take my chances from there.

He's getting paid, it's either here or somewhere else. It won't/shouldn't be 7 but it will probably be 6, minimum for his UFA years.

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03-02-2012, 03:25 PM
  #43
Slew Foots
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Tell that to Philly, Tampa or Toronto. We are so spoiled we have no idea what it means to have a great goalie anymore.
Philly's gonna have a hard time making Price an offer with that Bryzgalov contract lol...

Honestly, I don't see any teams willing to break the bank AND part with a bunch of draft picks to sign Price as an RFA. There are other less costly options available for teams desperate for a young talented goalie (e.g. trade for J. Bernier, Harding, etc.).

Ironically, Toronto could be in a solid playoff position right now if they had kept Rask instead of trading him for Raycroft. This would normally make me laugh, if it wasn't for the fact that it made Boston that much stronger and harder to contend with over the next few years .

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03-02-2012, 03:40 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
$40M over 8-years.

I wouldn't go a cent over $5.5M. And if he wants $5.5M, I'd only be signing him for 5-6 years.
6.5 - 7 M per year is his real worth, not a penny less..


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03-02-2012, 03:48 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
Philly's gonna have a hard time making Price an offer with that Bryzgalov contract lol...

Honestly, I don't see any teams willing to break the bank AND part with a bunch of draft picks to sign Price as an RFA. There are other less costly options available for teams desperate for a young talented goalie (e.g. trade for J. Bernier, Harding, etc.).

Ironically, Toronto could be in a solid playoff position right now if they had kept Rask instead of trading him for Raycroft. This would normally make me laugh, if it wasn't for the fact that it made Boston that much stronger and harder to contend with over the next few years .
The Leafs have had a big role in creating what is now (and is going to be in the future) a perenial contender in the Boston Bruins. Their stupidity hurt the entire division.

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03-02-2012, 03:49 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Tell that to Philly, Tampa or Toronto. We are so spoiled we have no idea what it means to have a great goalie anymore.

.
Quote of the year about Price.. Some Habs fans have no clue what an elite goaltender is, they have the chance to watch it about every night in a Habs jersey but just cant appreciate it, they have either no clue how good Price is or they dont watch much hockey outside of the Habs.. No goaltender in this league could have led that dysfunctional team in playoffs, there is nothing you can do when the guys in front of you just cant compete at the other team level.. With an average goaltender in net the Habs are fighting with Columbus for the 1st overall pick.


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Old
03-02-2012, 03:53 PM
  #47
llamateizer
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Originally Posted by ReVeuF View Post
Eller, Schultz while keeping Price or Backes, Perron (since Price value is higher) while keeping Halak ?

My choice would be the second !
mhh no,
At that moment Price value was at his lowest while Halak was at his highest.


Instead of Shultz, habs wouldve got a 2nd round or at best 1st round for price

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03-02-2012, 04:14 PM
  #48
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Let me approach this from a different angle. Let us make the assumption that 99% of the fans want Price and consider him elite. This is largely based on comparative statistics (comparison to other goalies). In my mind, the problem with statistics when it pertains to sports is the number of variables that need to be inputted for validity. If there exists a science of sports, that science is incomplete and a work in progress.

Why does a goalie have a great season one year and a terrible one the next? Migration from a trap system? Girlfriend? Child? Alcohol? Defensemen changes? Luck? Subtle changes in play style? All of the above and more.

Whatever the cause(s), fans latch on to wins and statistics as evidence of goalie greatness. I still beg to differ. A great goalie is a different animal altogether. I did not believe in Theodore when he was having his MVP season. I never believed Bryzgalov merited such high esteem. Yet both were considered elite at one point. Or what about Toskala when he was moved to Toronto? Leaf fans were crying tears of joy. And yet to me, all of them are(were) lacking.

If all hockey decisions were made based on statistics, we wouldn't need scouts, we wouldn't need to see the players to have an opinion. Might we perhaps view statistics simply as a tool and go back to the unscientific method of watching and trying to instinctively grasp a sliver of the souls of players?

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03-02-2012, 04:17 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
I've been a HFBoards lurker for many years never having felt the need to put in my say since someone would always be of similar mind. But now, no one else seems to think what I'm thinking or is afraid to say it because of a suspicion that they'd be ridiculed or that they would be called a poor fan. I felt compelled to write a post.

I'm a fan of the Canadiens as a team and goalies as a position. I've loved, hated and been ambivalent about many goalies since the 70s. I've loved Tretiak, and Esposito, wondered at the awkward movements of young Dryden, mourned the early loss of Pelle Lindbergh, hoped for Hackett to beat his vertigo to be what he could, laughed in joy at Hasek's flopping saves, marvelled at the brilliance of Roy and Halak in their magical playoff runs... I could go on and on.

But that is just to preface my opinion (which seems to be a lonely one). It's this - I never liked Theodore, and just like Theodore, I don't like Carey Price.

People seem to have a collective unconscious agreement that Price is the Canadiens' goalie now and well into the future. There are threads speculating about how much to pay him and for how long. They talk about the great lateral movement and positioning. They say he is a franchise goalie and franchise goalies are paid top dollar. Statistics are used to validate their claims to his greatness or potential therein. Forgive me but my memory is poor - was Theodore not also assumed to be a great goalie with a great future?
(I do not mean to compare goaltending techniques, only the general consensus of opinion on ability).

What makes me not like Price? I regret I am not supported by the data. The numbers say he is a number one. I only have my gut feeling based on observing his goaltending and perhaps comparing it in my mind to great goalies I have watched in the past. Subconsciously, I was weary of Price, even in his great season last year. Maybe it was the Umberger goals in the Philadelphia series a few years ago that made me turn on him - goals that made my stomach turn and my heart ache for someone else in front of that net. Maybe it was the Boston series before that that had already cemented my opinion.

And again, I am not arguing based on his ability. He obviously has the technique. It's that something you can never put a finger on. And I am certain he doesn't have that "thing". Even if the team was doing well this year, he is not a goalie I want to go to battle for or with.

But now with the team in flux, we want to sign this fellow to a long term deal at superstar wages. It is a mistake. The management of the team made an error in trading Halak instead of riding a tandem to reveal the true identity of the hero in the mask. My wish is that it does not make a second one by rooting us to this particular goalie in an unhealthy financial and performance situation.

My criticism does not come without a recommendation. You may view it as naive. I believe in my heart that we should trade Price while the community at large holds him in high regard.

This is all only my opinion. I may be wrong but no one seems to ever say anything negative about this goalie. I'm wondering why.
Cool story bro.

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Old
03-02-2012, 04:34 PM
  #50
WHY LIE GUY
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I'd give him 6 years @ 5.5 per.

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