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Old
01-30-2006, 09:02 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
not with losses per season...

you make it sound like he's the worst coach in kings history with all your posts man...he's probably not the best, but he's also not one of the worst as you try to make him out to be.
Hey jfont....I agree with you on both counts.....definitely not the worst and most definitely not the best (even though some are under the illusion that he is).

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01-30-2006, 09:28 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
you make it sound like he's the worst coach in kings history with all your posts man...he's probably not the best, but he's also not one of the worst as you try to make him out to be.
When have I ever suggested such a thing? You need to understand the concept of counterpoint. I'm not going to let people get away with saying that AM has the most wins in franchise history without also mentioning that he has the most losses, as well. If you truly believe in being objective, then perhaps you could help me, so that I don't have to be the one to do it all the time.

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01-30-2006, 09:32 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
When have I ever suggested such a thing? You need to understand the concept of counterpoint. If you truly believe in being objective, then maybe you could help me correct people who mention that AM has the most wins in franchise history without mentioning that he has the most losses, so that I don't have to be the one to do it all the time.
you emphasized the "losses" on your post below. what else could people ascertain from that post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
One of those numbers that you mention is losses, don't forget.
seriously, it does make it seem that he is one of the worst with the losses...we all know you believe him to be as such...but I disagree...and alot of posters here disagree too. he's not as bad as you think he is.

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01-30-2006, 09:38 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
he's not as bad as you think he is.
But realistically he is not as good as alot of poster's here think he is either. I mean the guy has not accomplished **** in 5 season's in the NHL.

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01-30-2006, 09:41 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
seriously, it does make it seem that he is one of the worst with the losses...we all know you believe him to be as such...but I disagree...and alot of posters here disagree too. he's not as bad as you think he is.
That's because it's a fact that he has more losses than any coach in franchise history, just as it's a fact that he has more wins. The two cancel each other out and neither should be mentioned without the other. I would never hold the loss record against AM because that's just ignorant and one-sided. Why people choose to do that very thing with wins is beyond me. You're a smart and objective person; I would expect you to agree with me here.

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01-30-2006, 09:46 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
But realistically he is not as good as alot of poster's here think he is either. I mean the guy has not accomplished **** in 5 season's in the NHL.
well, if you look at who won the cup these last 5 seasons, they were won by teams that had the resources...devils, avs, wings and lightning all have had the backing of ownership's money. I didn't find this with the kings. I think that they played well, were well prepared most of the time and played hard under murray. the results are better than what its supposed to be...

lets see, the first couple of years, they had stumpel and smoke at center...granted they had blake, palffy and luc but I think they were still short some players.

the 3rd year, they had just that one line and modry on defense...

the last few seasons were all injuries...

you might think those are excuses, but they're legitimate excuses...and if you don't think its good enough, then fine...I just disagree with that. though i must say that if murray doesn't right the ship this year, he's in trouble...

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Old
01-30-2006, 09:49 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
That's because it's a fact that he has more losses than any coach in franchise history, just as it's a fact that he has more wins. The two cancel each other out and neither should be mentioned without the other. I would never hold the loss record against AM because that's just ignorant and one-sided. Why people choose to do that very thing with wins is beyond me. You're a smart and objective person; I would expect you to agree with me here.
fair enough...

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Old
01-30-2006, 10:08 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
well, if you look at who won the cup these last 5 seasons, they were won by teams that had the resources...devils, avs, wings and lightning all have had the backing of ownership's money. I didn't find this with the kings. I think that they played well, were well prepared most of the time and played hard under murray. the results are better than what its supposed to be...

lets see, the first couple of years, they had stumpel and smoke at center...granted they had blake, palffy and luc but I think they were still short some players.

the 3rd year, they had just that one line and modry on defense...

the last few seasons were all injuries...

you might think those are excuses, but they're legitimate excuses...and if you don't think its good enough, then fine...I just disagree with that. though i must say that if murray doesn't right the ship this year, he's in trouble...
But jfont.....I am not judging Murray on his ability to win the Stanley Cup. I am judging him more on his regular season results. The Kings have never finished in the top 10 since Murray has been coach. However I can name some teams with less talent and a lower payroll that have.....

Florida Panthers in 2000
Pittsburgh Penguins in 2001
Carolina Hurricanes in 2002
New York Islanders in 2002

There are more in 2003 and 2004 but I didn't include them because of the injury situations in those years.

But the point is in Murray's first three season's he never got the Kings to finish better than 5th in their conference. Which in my opinion is an "average" accomplishment.

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Old
01-30-2006, 10:27 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongebob
But jfont.....I am not judging Murray on his ability to win the Stanley Cup. I am judging him more on his regular season results. The Kings have never finished in the top 10 since Murray has been coach. However I can name some teams with less talent and a lower payroll that have.....

Florida Panthers in 2000
Pittsburgh Penguins in 2001
Carolina Hurricanes in 2002
New York Islanders in 2002

There are more in 2003 and 2004 but I didn't include them because of the injury situations in those years.

But the point is in Murray's first three season's he never got the Kings to finish better than 5th in their conference. Which in my opinion is an "average" accomplishment.
I can't really vouch for those teams you mentioned. I have to do research on them and I'm not gonna do it right now. So 4 mediocre teams finished better than the kings...I'm hoping this year, the kings will make it top 10 or better.

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Old
01-30-2006, 10:31 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
...I'm hoping this year, the kings will make it top 10 or better.

And if they don't? Would you want the coaching staff fired? Or only if the Kings miss the playoffs? What if they get the 7th or 8th seed and lose in the first round?

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Old
01-30-2006, 10:34 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25
And if they don't? Would you want the coaching staff fired? Or only if the Kings miss the playoffs? What if they get the 7th or 8th seed and lose in the first round?
do you want people to be on the fire the coaches bandwagon?

why do you care? its not our decision anyway...

i think the barometer is much steeper than before...but we have to see the outcome before making judgements.

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01-30-2006, 10:43 PM
  #37
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I feel like a patient right now...one that just came from the proctoligist!

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01-30-2006, 10:47 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfont
I can't really vouch for those teams you mentioned. I have to do research on them and I'm not gonna do it right now. So 4 mediocre teams finished better than the kings...I'm hoping this year, the kings will make it top 10 or better.
1999-00 Florida Panthers
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...002342000.html

2000-01 Pittsburgh Penguins
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000502001.html

2001-02 Carolina Hurricanes
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...009792002.html

2001-02 New York Islanders
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...00522002.html/

If Murray does finish in the top 10 then he can keep his job. But if he doesn't the Kings need to start over with a new system/coaching staff......in my opinion.

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Old
01-30-2006, 10:49 PM
  #39
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jfont, aren't you tired of watching the Kings dump the puck in the zone over and over? Have you been watching the game tonight? After the Kings dump it in the zone, skate around a little and lose possession, the Ducks come back and skate the puck in the zone and create a scoring chance. Doesn't the Kings coaching staff understand that the defenseman can't hook and hold the opponents as they enter the attacking zone? Why do the Kings insist on dumping the puck in time after time? Are the Ducks just that much more talented than the Kings?

Sure, in the clutch and grab NHL, dump and chase was a viable strategy. Maybe it will change in the playoffs, but for now, it does't work as well in the "new" NHL.

The Kings only goal and scoring chance was created because Belanger gained the blue line and kept possession of the puck and passed it into the slot. What a novel idea for a hockey player.

I'm sure Andy told Belanger to stop being creative and dump the puck in the corner. Or it is in the pressbox next game.

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Old
01-30-2006, 11:25 PM
  #40
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Watch the Cowan - Giuliano - Parros line. Dump to the left corner and cycle, over and over again. Why? Because that's all Giuliano and Parros did for the entire time they were in Manchester.

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Old
01-30-2006, 11:36 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Blazer
Watch the Cowan - Giuliano - Parros line. Dump to the left corner and cycle, over and over again. Why? Because that's all Giuliano and Parros did for the entire time they were in Manchester.
I can understand those guys doing it, their job in the NHL with Andy Murray is predicated on them doing just that, but what I don't understand is when Demitra, Conroy, Cammy, etc. keep doing it. Conroy made a nice move to gain the blueline and then dumps the puck in the corner.


Why not put Frolov back with Conroy and Demitra? That line was the main reason the Kings were winning in December. Why put Luc out there and stick Frolov with that stiff Armstrong? More brilliant coaching moves to "spread" out the offense?

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Old
01-31-2006, 12:34 AM
  #42
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I think what you guys are trying to say is Andy Murray is the worst best coach the Kings have ever had.

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Old
01-31-2006, 12:37 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen
I think what you guys are trying to say is Andy Murray is the worst best coach the Kings have ever had.
I would say I agree with that statement 100%.

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Old
01-31-2006, 08:20 AM
  #44
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How did you all manage to hijack my thread and turn it into the great Andy Murray debate? LOL

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Old
02-01-2006, 07:25 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Blazer
Watch the Cowan - Giuliano - Parros line. Dump to the left corner and cycle, over and over again. Why? Because that's all Giuliano and Parros did for the entire time they were in Manchester.
What is a this line going to do but that? Two drop passes and a Parros howitzer top shelf? If Parros , Cowan and Giuliano want to stay in the league they will get the puck deep and play with energy. Any goals they get are gravy, they are expected to keep the goals against and penalties to a minimum.

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